Renault Zoe, would you buy it ?

MidlandsM · 19-03-2012 11:51am

dar83 wrote: »

I will never drive an electric car as long as there is Petrol to power one.

Hmmmmmmmmm, i used to think that till this morning, when I had to pay €1.64 a litre for petrol........Grrrrrrrrr:mad:

19-03-2012 12:02pm

johnos1984 wrote: »

why?

Because it's a lot more comfortable driving an auto than a manual.

More people are driving auto's these days as they are not the fuel thirsty power sapping things they were years ago.

Some of the twin clutches are really good, but I prefer cvt to them all. Though auto's are much better with higher power cars, or cars with decent torque as they don't have to rev as much as with lower power engines.

I was a manual lover until I got my dsg caddy and was hooked ever since.

Once you are converted you never want to go back.

My brother got hooked on automatics from the Caddy, and has a cvt TDI A5 and it works brilliantly in the tdi, as did my old A4.

As I ran up 200,000 miles on it it started to lag a bit from take off, so I sold it.

I love the fact auto's take off like a rocket at roundabouts, it's so handy when you need the extra poke to get out!

Left foot brake press the accelerator and off the brake then bam, off you go!

Would I drive a manual car again ? if I had to, but other than that no, they just offer a far better relaxing drive for me.

If you like to drive like much faster than you should be on back roads, then Maybe they are not for you, but I don't drive like a mad man, those days are over for me!

19-03-2012 12:05pm

Hey Sesshoumaru,

Welcome, nice entrance!

How many miles have you on the Leaf now ?

19-03-2012 12:11pm

People might not be a fan of battery leasing, but it's the only way Renault could do it to keep the initial cost of the car down, then you take out a lease that best suits your mileage. You don't worry about the battery after so many years.

The thing is though no one would have battery worries after 3 years and your normal warranty would cover that anyway, if there was not at least a 7 year warranty to cover the battery I wouldn't be buying it.

The Leaf's battery should last a long time 2000+ cycles at say 80 miles range average is a minimum of 160,000 miles.

The thing is they have built in safeguards so the battery never reaches full cycles and so I can see it lasting well above 200,000 miles! If that proves to be the case I'll be probably buying one in 2 years or so. It won't be that long to see high mileage leafs around.

19-03-2012 12:13pm

Again. my mileage needs are around 20,000 a year

Battery rental + electricity pm = 169.80 for my lease plan

Petrol costing me 220 pm

Granted I'm not paying a car loan so I'll be keeping the prius for a while yet, and wait until Sesshoumaru is selling his Leaf! :-)

Sesshoumaru · 19-03-2012 12:15pm

A Renault Zoe owner should be able use a regular charger like this one in Clerys Q Park and charge from 0% to 100% in just over 1 hour using the Chameleon chargers intermediate power level of 22kW. When we brought the kids in to watch the parade we parked there. After the parade before setting off for the car park I used the Open Wings app on my phone and told the car to start preheating itself using power from the plug in Clery's Q Park. So when we got back to the car we had a full tank and the car was toasty warm

Sesshoumaru · 19-03-2012 12:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Hey Sesshoumaru,

Welcome, nice entrance!

How many miles have you on the Leaf now ?

Thanks

Well I took delivery of my car April 21st 2011. I'm up to approximately 22,000 kilometers now. I'll be doing a little mini summary of my first full year of ownership once I reach the 21st next month. I wanted to include the first years service cost and a report on battery capacity from the dealer if I can get it out of them. Another Leaf owner did, so I don't see why they wouldn't!

19-03-2012 12:27pm

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

A Renault Zoe owner should be able use a regular charger like this one in Clerys Q Park and charge from 0% to 100% in just over 1 hour using the Chameleon chargers intermediate power level of 22kW. When we brought the kids in to watch the parade we parked there. After the parade before setting off for the car park I used the Open Wings app on my phone and told the car to start preheating itself using power from the plug in Clery's Q Park. So when we got back to the car we had a full tank and the car was toasty warm

Wait a minute, did you say 22kw, from that wall charger ?? that a typo ?

I thought those smaller chargers were limited to house mains 3 kw ?

MORE INPUT NEEDED ????

19-03-2012 12:39pm

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Thanks Well I took delivery of my car April 21st 2011. I'm up to approximately 22,000 kilometers now. I'll be doing a little mini summary of my first full year of ownership once I reach the 21st next month. I wanted to include the first years service cost and a report on battery capacity from the dealer if I can get it out of them. Another Leaf owner did, so I don't see why they wouldn't!

15K miles a year is a fair bit! And all on cheap electricity.

Yeah you need to create a new thread when you do that. I'm sure there will be a lot of interested people, me included!

Sesshoumaru · 19-03-2012 12:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Wait a minute, did you say 22kw, from that wall charger ?? that a typo ?

I thought those smaller chargers were limited to house mains 3 kw ?

MORE INPUT NEEDED ????

For AC charging the leaf has a 16amp 3.3kW on-board charger and 50kW for DC fast charging. The Renault Zoe only has an AC port, but for home charging it should be 32amp at 6.6kW. For higher charging rates it can utilise 3 phase power. My understanding is that on street chargers being installed will support 3 phase power and hence the Chameleon charger can ramp up to 22kW using the regular on-street charger.

TestTransmission · 19-03-2012 12:51pm

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

After the parade before setting off for the car park I used the Open Wings app on my phone and told the car to start preheating itself using power from the plug in Clery's Q Park. So when we got back to the car we had a full tank and the car was toasty warm

That's pretty cool :cool:

Sesshoumaru · 19-03-2012 12:59pm

TestTransmission wrote: »

That's pretty cool :cool:

It's a nice feeling arriving at your car on a cold day and when you open the door, warm air wafts over you

It's a small feature, but really appreciated!

19-03-2012 1:06pm

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

For AC charging the leaf has a 16amp 3.3kW on-board charger and 50kW for DC fast charging. The Renault Zoe only has an AC port, but for home charging it should be 32amp at 6.6kW. For higher charging rates it can utilise 3 phase power. My understanding is that on street chargers being installed will support 3 phase power and hence the Chameleon charger can ramp up to 22kW using the regular on-street charger.

I must admit I'm still confused,

sorry.

Okay, I understand the leaf has a 3 kw ac mains charger, (being upgraded in 2012-13 to 6kw) And fast dc charging capability.

From Renault

"ZOE is the only electric vehicle to feature the Chameleon charger. Patented by Renault, this charger is compatible with all power levels up to 43kW. Charging batteries at a charging station can take between 30 minutes and nine hours. For example, ZOE can be charged in an hour at 22kW. This intermediate power level extends battery life and puts less pressure on the power grid than the fast-charging of batteries at 43kW. Fast-charging stations are currently equipped with high-power chargers. Now that the Chameleon charger is fitted to the vehicle, there is no longer any need for chargers at charging stations. New fast-charging stations will be opened which are easier and more cost-effective. They will cost less than €3,000, a quarter of the cost of existing fast-charging stations"
"

So is that clearys charger a type 2 ?

The ESB ecars site offers no information on charger kw and I thought the on street chargers were slow, taking 8 hrs to charge. God if I don't understand this what hope has the non technically minded ?

19-03-2012 1:10pm

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

It's a nice feeling arriving at your car on a cold day and when you open the door, warm air wafts over you It's a small feature, but really appreciated!

Yeah that is cool, you could preheat the car and have it frost free in the mornings, would have been handy previous 3 bitter winters!

Zoe has a much better heater, uses heat pump technology and consumes 1kw for 3kw of heat!

19-03-2012 3:17pm

From http://www.itrn.ie/uploads/sesB_ID83.pdf

See the esb ecars website only says type 2 no other information, so that could mean 3kw or 22 kw charging as is the clearys charger!

We need to know on the map if it's type 2 a or b! That's essential information and a major omission is you ask me!

I wasn't aware the Leaf could take Level 2 B charging of 22 kw ?

19-03-2012 4:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

.......

Zoe has a much better heater, uses heat pump technology and consumes 1kw for 3kw of heat!

As wonderful as heat pump technology is the principal of conservation of energy still holds true, taking heat from outside and transferring it inside is lovely and very efficient but it's not rocket science. Of course heat pumps are rather less straight forward than a normal direct heater so it will be interesting to see how durable they are in the application. Considering the issues actual heater matrixes etc give in conventional cars they might be interesting

Very suitable to Irish climates though as it's rarely too cold here

I wonder how long the heat pump is covered by the warranty?

19-03-2012 5:09pm

No idea, probably covered under the normal warranty.

The thing that really is cool is the charger on board, and the esb would only have to supply the power.

The 22 kw charger in clearys means I could make the 100 mile round trip to Dublin city and not have to worry about going 100 kph all the time,and accelerating slowly.

I think faster charging is better than a bigger more expensive battery.

If those type 2 chargers on street are capable of 22kw, then that is really really good.

I would have charge left in the battery meaning a charge would take about 40 mins. That's really good. It's good the leaf can take that 22 kw too!

Why don't they put more in more shopping centres like Jervis ?

We need more incentives for Evs like free street parking. There is no way I would pay 2.90 per hour to charge my car and pay for electricity! Street parking charges in Dublin are a disgrace, revenue collection of course! Hardly an incentive for me to go shopping and spend my money there if I'm being ripped off for parking.

It costs me 1.20 per hour in Carlow town, no chargers in Carlow town or anywhere near!

jackbauer · 19-03-2012 5:17pm

The IEC61851 standard allows for charging current of between 6amps and 80amps single or three phase. In this country the on street charge points are 3 phase 32amps for a practical maximum of 11kw charging power (400v x 32A). AC rapid charging requires 63amps at 400v three phase for a little over 22kw.

High power onboard chargers are the way to go IMHO but I'm not a great believer in the Renault battery lease sales model. Unless petrol / diesel prices increase dramatically it just won't make a viable value proposition for the average motorist. It does however go a long way to alleviate the media hyped battery fear issue which is complete nonsense anyway.

19-03-2012 5:35pm

Yeah the nimh batteries in the Toyota rav 4 lasted 150,000 + miles, and nimh batteries have about 500-1000 cycles compared to the Nissan leaf nmc batteries 2000+ cycles.

I would say Zoe uses the same batteries.

The battery lease was designed to make the initial price of the car more affordable. Even so 16 k is a lot for a small car including the grant, considering there is no engine and gearbox.

I think Renault might be keeping the cars expensive to benefit from the grant schemes!

keithclancy · 19-03-2012 5:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah the nimh batteries in the Toyota rav 4 lasted 150,000 + miles, and nimh batteries have about 500-1000 cycles compared to the Nissan leaf nmc batteries 2000+ cycles.

I would say Zoe uses the same batteries.

The battery lease was designed to make the initial price of the car more affordable. Even so 16 k is a lot for a small car including the grant, considering there is no engine and gearbox.

I think Renault might be keeping the cars expensive to benefit from the grant schemes!

http://www.renault-ze.com/nl-nl/z.e.-modellen/zoe/renault-zoe-life-1001.html

Even more here:
€ 20 690 inc taxes.

79 euros / month for 12,500 km / year.

19-03-2012 6:01pm

I see on justification whatever to incentivise EVs by giving them free on street parking.

19-03-2012 6:11pm

RoverJames wrote: »

I see on justification whatever to incentivise EVs by giving them free on street parking.

Why, just because you don't want one or even like them ! They do in most other countries.

Oafley Jones · 19-03-2012 6:15pm

I was just looking at some youtube videos of the Zoe and that interior is white, really, really white. I felt the need for sunglasses just looking at it. It also looks like it could be wrecked looking very quickly, unless Renault have been very careful with the materials and I've no confidence they have. Quite liked the exterior styling initially, but those videos have put me completely off it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeaibHsKzhA

19-03-2012 6:15pm

keithclancy wrote: »

http://www.renault-ze.com/nl-nl/z.e.-modellen/zoe/renault-zoe-life-1001.html

Even more here:
€ 20 690 inc taxes.

79 euros / month for 12,500 km / year.

No grant there ?

I don't believe the car should cost 21k without engine and gearbox ?

That's what makes me believe car companies are keeping the costs artificially high to take advantage or grants!

19-03-2012 6:48pm

Oafley Jones wrote: »

I was just looking at some youtube videos of the Zoe and that interior is white, really, really white. I felt the need for sunglasses just looking at it. It also looks like it could be wrecked looking very quickly, unless Renault have been very careful with the materials and I've no confidence they have. Quite liked the exterior styling initially, but those videos have put me completely off it.

I don't think the production version will be as bright.

Not the best interior, not the worst either. Can't have Audi like interiors at that price!

19-03-2012 7:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why, just because you don't want one or even like them ! They do in most other countries.

Because for every electric vehicle in a parking space not paying that's lost money, empty parking spaces are at somewhat of a premium.

There is a free electric space in Cork City as far as I know, I think they should charge for it the same as any other space.

Why should EVs get free parking in cities?

eringobragh · 19-03-2012 7:24pm

RoverJames wrote: »

Why should EVs get free parking in cities?

Indeed all that "free" mileage you are doing you should be more then able to afford the price of a parking space.

19-03-2012 8:05pm

RoverJames wrote: »

Because for every electric vehicle in a parking space not paying that's lost money, empty parking spaces are at somewhat of a premium.

There is a free electric space in Cork City as far as I know, I think they should charge for it the same as any other space.

Why should EVs get free parking in cities?

Because the charges are so expensive I see lots and lots of empty parking spaces anyway.

It would also be a way to encourage more ev use, as that will be the only way we can meet Kyoto, or face heavy penalties!

It's the same old storey high taxes, high charges just make people find alternatives and so revenue drops.

Revenue in the U.K has dropped considerably because of the high fuel taxes, I don't know if the same data exists for Ireland, but you can be sure many people have cut down on their journeys, bank holidays trips etc. I know we have!

19-03-2012 8:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Petrol costs are about 55 euro's per week for 450 ish miles in my prius..............

Deleted User wrote: »

.............. but you can be sure many people have cut down on their journeys, bank holidays trips etc. I know we have!

Are you for real?

Your Prius returns just shy of 60mpg yet your weekend activities have been curtailed due to taxes on fuel.

And you plan on shelling out a decent wedge of cash for a second hand leaf or Zoe or some other yoke to "save" money in the future.

:pac:

About the parking, if there are that many spaces empty why should EV folk get them for free? Why not have free parking for OAPs for example?

19-03-2012 8:48pm

RoverJames wrote: »

Are you for real?

Your Prius returns just shy of 60mpg yet your weekend activities have been curtailed due to taxes on fuel.

And you plan on shelling out a decent wedge of cash for a second hand leaf or Zoe or some other yoke to "save" money in the future.

:pac:

About the parking, if there are that many spaces empty why should EV folk get them for free? Why not have free parking for OAPs for example?

I would have no objection to oap free parking at all!

And yes we have cut down on a lot of excess mileage we do. I'm paying a lot on fuel as it is.

I never said I was buying an e.v, wanting one and being able to afford one are 2 different things. If you read back you will read where I said I would wait until the price of e.v's come down. That while it would be cheaper for me to lease the battery inc electricity, I currently have no car repayments, obviously if I had the car to pay for I wouldn't be saving money. And I said I might buy a 2nd hand Leaf if the battery proves reliable.

My leccy bike offers me a fair bit of incredibly cheap local transport for now and I feel that so much traffic could be taken off the road altogether with electric bikes and scooters, and apart from anything I absolutely love been on it, I would give anything to be able to find local work because I would go to work and back on it!

When it's time for us to get another 2nd hand car, it very well may be electric. probably 3-4 years. It just so happened we got the Prius for a steal, about 3500 cheaper than they were going for at the time made me decide to buy it.

Having said that anything can happen such as my contract is up on friday and I may not have a job to buy anything with! :eek:

Renault Zoe, would you buy it ?

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