Renault Zoe, would you buy it ?

About 16,000 Euro's new, 70 €pm battery rental for 6500 miles per year, more expensive rental options depending of mileage needed.

Without vrt and including the grant, it seems expensive enough without the battery ?

I think I saw on a leaf forum where 15,000 a year would cost you 200 € pm for the battery! I'm trying to find it!

Advantage, no battery worries, range should be more than the Nissan leaf because it's more efficient.The heater uses little power. 1kw for 3kw heat.

A diesel Clio costs 16,900. But costs a hell of a lot more to fuel.

Would you buy one new or wait until it costs about 8-10,000 2nd hand, or not buy it at all ?

Seventy a month would fuel a diesel one for than mileage me thinks.

Compton

I will drive in petrol cars until it becomes un affordable for me

Owen

Couldn't resist ...

dar83

I will never drive an electric car as long as there is Petrol to power one.

But as RJ has said, for that level of mileage you'd be able to run a durty Diesel for the same amount, so why bother?

MugMugs

70 pm? That's incredibly expensive!

Gran Hermano

I'm waiting for Declan to offer a Boardsies discount on them over on the Currys forum.

colm_mcm

MugMugs wrote: »

70 pm? That's incredibly expensive!

You spend less than €17 a week on fuel?

HAHA Owen, poor sesshomaru

That mileage works out at about 125 miles a week. I can only assume it would cost around the same in diesel, because Renault worked really hard to make it work out that it costs around the same as the diesel to run.

In the long run it would work out cheaper having very little maintenance. And 150 to tax, ice tax is only going one way!

I think the biggest deal is the fact Renault take the risks on the battery, as they should!

It cost me €50.00 for 31.27 litres of petrol to do about 450 miles in the Prius over that week. I filled up that time on the 7th March. It would cost 51.59 for that now.

So about 2500 ish Euro's per year we spend on petrol. + maintenance of about 300 euro's more. Total 3k. working out around 250 Euro's pm. Which is more than the rental of the battery for that mileage.

It would cost around 450 Euro's in electricity to do 17,500 miles on Night electricity. I base that figure on a real life range in the Leaf of about 70 miles per charge, 60-65 mph, little heat. So your 300 Euro service would go a long way to pay the electricity!

The Zoe would be wore efficient and has a much more efficient heater. 1kw for 3kw heat!

here is the battery rental charges for the Fluence ZE from the U.K renault site

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

HAHA Owen, poor sesshomaru

That mileage works out at about 125 miles a week. I can only assume it would cost around the same in diesel.........

€70/month for 6500 miles/annum.

That 525 litres of diesel at €1.60/litre.

115 gallons to travel 6500 miles, the diesel would need to do 56mpg to be as efficent as the battery thing.

I reckon mid 50s from a Clio diesel is very very very likely.

Can't see how you reckon the diesel costs more to fuel..........

Deleted User wrote: »

About 16,000 Euro's new, 70 €pm battery rental for 6500 miles per year, more expensive rental options depending of mileage needed...................

A diesel Clio costs 16,900. But costs a hell of a lot more to fuel.

............

the more you drive the diesel the cheaper it will be compared to the electric yoke, do 20 miles a week and you'll still get clung for €70/month for the battery.

It is certainly worth thinking about I think anyway.

If it costs around the same as the diesel, then why not ?

It charges in half the time the leaf does from the home charger or 30 miles for every 10 mins on a fast charger.

Your lease is up, new battery or new car and new battery. Ev's should last a very long time.

I myself would probably wait until the car costs 8k in 4 years, by that time petrol will be a lot closer to 2.00 per litre and it costs 66 Euros for 40 litres of petrol today at 2.00 euros it will cost 80 Euros for 40 litres, that's very scary.

I think other manufacturers will follow Renault if people decide to buy it, the thing is they need to advertise this stuff on t.v, stuff like "costs the same as the diesel to run" and " diesel tax and road tax will keep going up"

I'm estimating the zoe having the same battery capacity of 22 kw/hrs as the leaf will do a good 90 miles on a charge at 60-65 mph, being more efficient and smaller. Time will tell.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

............ stuff like "costs the same as the diesel to run" ...........

It doesn't though, at 6500 miles a year it might cost the same, any less or any more and the diesel is cheaper

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

Can't see how you reckon the diesel costs more to fuel..........

the more you drive the diesel the cheaper it will be compared to the electric yoke, do 20 miles a week and you'll still get clung for €70/month for the battery.

When I said diesel costs a hell of a lot more to fuel, I did mean more than electricity! I didn't make that clear!

How would driving a diesel be more likely to work out cheaper the more you drive it when electricity costs so little ?

Drive 20 miles a week ? why would you have a car then ?

PaulKK

Deleted User wrote: »

About 16,000 Euro's new, 70 €pm battery rental for 6500 miles per year, more expensive rental options depending of mileage needed.

Deleted User wrote: »

HAHA Owen, poor sesshomaru

I see the cheapest option there is 76 quid sterling for a 3 year contract.

I'm presuming this is going to be at least €100 here?

Unless Renault Ireland is discounting the UK price!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

When I said diesel costs a hell of a lot more to fuel, I did mean more than electricity! I didn't make that clear!

How would driving a diesel be more likely to work out cheaper the more you drive it when electricity costs so little ?

...........

You said if you do more miles than 6500/annum the battery lease is more expensive.....

Deleted User wrote: »

About 16,000 Euro's new, 70 €pm battery rental for 6500 miles per year, more expensive rental options depending of mileage needed..................

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

It doesn't though, at 6500 miles a year it might cost the same, any less or any more and the diesel is cheaper

How at more is the diesel cheaper ?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

How at more is the diesel cheaper ?

At €70/month battery lease the thing is no cheaper than fuelling a diesel, that was ignoring actual electricity costs completely.
Doing high miles (higher than a couple of hundred a week) would be condusive to seeing 70mpg from the diesel me thinks.

PaulKK

Deleted User wrote: »

How at more is the diesel cheaper ?

I'm presuming because you pay 4 pence a mile on top of your electricity if you go over your allowance.

I wouldn't go over the limit as I would take the lease package that suits my needs as I know what I need every year. 20,000 miles give or take so the 18,000 I'm sure could be stretched to 20k if not they could take their lease and you know the rest!

I think they will allow you to change your plan during the lease.

Also, as Paul said where is €70/month coming from?

PaulKK

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't go over the limit as I would take the lease package that suits my needs as I know what I need every year. 20,000 miles give or take so the 18,000 I'm sure could be stretched to 20k if not they could take their lease and you know the rest!

I think they will allow you to change your plan during the lease.

Yes but as James said the cost per mile is exactly the same as a diesel, ignoring the electricity costs.

Also as I quoted a few posts back, are you sure its 70 euro a month here? As your image has 76 pounds sterling as the cheapest price?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

............ 20,000 miles give or take so the 18,000 I'm sure could be stretched to 20k if not they could take their lease and you know the rest! .......

Any idea how muck the lease is for 18k/miles a year?
Apologies to ask but I'm trying to find out on the Renault.ie site but can't seem to.

The Zoe is a manky looking thing too btw.

Mr Simpson

PaulKK wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't go over the limit as I would take the lease package that suits my needs as I know what I need every year. 20,000 miles give or take so the 18,000 I'm sure could be stretched to 20k if not they could take their lease and you know the rest!

I think they will allow you to change your plan during the lease.

Yes but as James said the cost per mile is exactly the same as a diesel, ignoring the electricity costs.

Also as I quoted a few posts back, are you sure its 70 euro a month here? As your image has 76 pounds sterling as the cheapest price?

The image the OP provided is for the Renault Fluence.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

Also, as Paul said where is €70/month coming from?

That was before I saw the website, maybe it was 70 + vat I read on the leaf forum, or maybe the zoe rental is cheaper ?

heate

What are the service requirements on an EV?
I'm aware there's little in the way of moving parts but do the motors require maintenance or the gearing system?

All well and good that Renault will lease you a battery at €xxx p/m but adding electricity whats the total cost per km.

And with the driving required to achieve the stated range surely one would be better off in a clio diesel and not having to pay for a battery if you go of on holidays for a month.

Petrol costs are about 55 euro's per week for 450 ish miles in my prius which is really good on petrol despite what the green bashers say!

Battery rental over 3 years for 18k miles = 159 pm

Electricity for same distance 10.80 pm

petrol 220 pm

Zoe battery rental + electricity =169.80

saving about 50.20 pm!

i made a boo boo editing............

heate

heate wrote: »

What are the service requirements on an EV?
I'm aware there's little in the way of moving parts but do the motors require maintenance or the gearing system?

All well and good that Renault will lease you a battery at €xxx p/m but adding electricity whats the total cost per km.

And with the driving required to achieve the stated range surely one would be better off in a clio diesel and not having to pay for a battery if you go of on holidays for a month.

They call it in for fluid checks, tyre rotation that's it, maybe cabin filter. You wouldn't need to but they will say if book isn't stamped bye bye warranty.

They have to survive somehow!

Put it this way if it costs me 220 per month for petrol in the prius for 450 ish miles, in electricity that would = 10 euros!

pred racer

A little bit OT but 3kw of heat for 1kw of power is not possible, if you have something that is 100% efficient you can get 1kw for 1kw.
Energy is energy no matter what form its in

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

...........
Battery rental over 3 years for 18k miles = 159 pm

Electricity for same distance 10.80 pm..........

So €170/month for 1500 miles

At €1.60/litre you'd need the Clio diesel to average 64mpg to equal that. Quite feasible surely

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

So €170/month for 1500 miles

At €1.60/litre you'd need the Clio diesel to average 64mpg to equal that. Quite feasible surely

If my figures are correct that would = 630 miles @64 mpg with 45 litres, or about 530 miles per 38 litres before you fill up because no no one runs the tank dry!

That's 60 euro's at 1.60 per litre. I doubt the clio would average 64 mpg, once diesels hit town and city driving the mpg takes a nose dive. I've driven them for 350,000+ miles.

My sisters 1.6 hdi 308 does about 50-54 mpg max. My prius MK II actually does better!

Compare driving a golf 1.6 tdi to the zoe.

28,800k for the 1.6 tdi dsg edition r ( never heard of that )

I know I would rather spend 16k on zoe and 160 pm in battery rental than 29 k on a 1.6 dsg golf any day!

There is no 1.5 dsl clio auto that I can find, adding more to the cost!

Actually the bigger fluence would be a lot cheaper.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

If my figures are correct that would = 630 miles @64 mpg with 45 litres, or about 530 miles per 38 litres before you fill up because no no one runs the tank dry!

That's 60 euro's at 1.60 per litre. I doubt the clio would average 64 mpg, once diesels hit town and city driving the mpg takes a nose dive. I've driven them for 350,000+ miles.

My sisters 1.6 hdi 308 does about 50-54 mpg max. My prius MK II actually does better!

You lost me with the point you are making about filling up tbh, you can top up the tank whenever you want, it doesn't have to go below half full if that tickles your fancy

I drove a 2005 Mondeo diesel 100% urban for a week or so as I was off work and went literally no where except the gym, the city centre, the shop etc, all short spins and it didn't drop below 35mpg, Mondy mpg figures..........

Fuel consumption (urban) 34.9 mpg
Fuel consumption (extra urban) 58.9 mpg
Fuel consumption (combined) 47.1 mpg

1.5 clio diesel mpg figures........

Fuel consumption (urban) 57.7 mpg
Fuel consumption (extra urban) 80.7 mpg
Fuel consumption (combined) 70.6 mpg

1.6 HDi 308 figures.........
Fuel consumption (urban) 47.1 mpg
Fuel consumption (extra urban) 70.6 mpg
Fuel consumption (combined) 60.1 mpg


I reckon autotrader mpg figures are decent enough tbh, taking your experience of 50 to 54mpg for the 308 into account (half way between urban and combined figs from autotrader) and I don't think 64mpg from the Clio over 18000 miles is unrealistic

Deleted User wrote: »

Compare driving a golf 1.6 tdi to the zoe.

28,800k for the 1.6 tdi dsg edition r ( never heard of that )

I know I would rather spend 16k on zoe and 160 pm in battery rental than 29 k on a 1.6 dsg golf any day!

There is no 1.5 dsl clio auto that I can find, adding more to the cost!

Actually the bigger fluence would be a lot cheaper.

Why pick a Golf? How are they anyway comparable to a Zoe? If you are going comparing the cost of a Golf to a Zoe to make it look affordable this thread has just gone to the bin imo.

You are after comparing manufacturer mpg ratings, I was quoting real life what I got in the 308 and I don't trust auto journalist figures either.

The auto version would get less mpg. And cost more to buy.

You are not comparing like with like either by comparing mpg ratings with manuals. Evs have no gearbox.

The Zoe is a lot smaller than the Prius and I would have to see it to know if it's size is for me, but I wouldn't buy new anyway. If I can pick one up in 2 years for 11 k then happy days.

lomb

I dont believe the low electricity costs banded about. Afaik electricity per KWH is 3 times the cost of oil . Ok diesel at the pumps has an additional say 50% cost from excise which leccy doesnt.
And an electric car is 100 % say efficient whereas a diesel is say 40% efficient.
so to me it works about the same doing the sums and remember guys leccy isnt excised today but it will be tomorrow for vehicular use. Seems like a no brainer to me electric cars today are unviable economically. Performance and range leaves alot to be desired additionally.

Actually converting to LPG would probably be the cheapest way to go until the government screw us on tax for it too!

johnos1984

lomb wrote: »

I dont believe the low electricity costs banded about. Afaik electricity per KWH is 3 times the cost of oil . Ok diesel at the pumps has an additional say 50% cost from excise which leccy doesnt.
And an electric car is 100 % say efficient whereas a diesel is say 40% efficient.
so to me it works about the same doing the sums and remember guys leccy isnt excised today but it will be tomorrow for vehicular use. Seems like a no brainer to me electric cars today are unviable economically. Performance and range leaves alot to be desired additionally.

And they won't be viable tomorrow due to excise on electricity

I factored in your real life experience to the manufacturers figures

You're sisters mpg is half way between the manufacturers claim for urban and combined, half way between urban and combined for the Clio is 63/64mpg I though it an excellent use of the available data.

So when comparing the running costs of EV to cars powered by petrol or diesel we must only look at automatic cars so we are comparing like with like ?
So you compare a Zoe to a DSG Golf in price terms, to be like for like.
That's laughable.

lomb

lomb wrote: »

I dont believe the low electricity costs banded about. Afaik electricity per KWH is 3 times the cost of oil . Ok diesel at the pumps has an additional say 50% cost from excise which leccy doesnt.
And an electric car is 100 % say efficient whereas a diesel is say 40% efficient.
so to me it works about the same doing the sums and remember guys leccy isnt excised today but it will be tomorrow for vehicular use. Seems like a no brainer to me electric cars today are unviable economically. Performance and range leaves alot to be desired additionally.

Evs are about 80 % efficient.

Diesel has more like 65 % tax applied.

I wouldn't say diesel is 40 % efficient more like 30

Electricity will always be much cheaper than petrol or diesel. They can't apply the same tax to domestic electricity, ant solar prices are dropping really fast. Currently about 1 euro per watt.

johnos1984

Mad_Lad wrote: »

Electricity will always be much cheaper than petrol or diesel. .

not in Ireland as most our electricity comes from fossil fuels

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

I factored in your real life experience to the manufacturers figures

You're sisters mpg is half way between the manufacturers claim for urban and combined, half way between urban and combined for the Clio is 63/64mpg I though it an excellent use of the available data.

So when comparing the running costs of EV to cars powered by petrol or diesel we must only look at automatic cars so we are comparing like with like ?
So you compare a Zoe to a DSG Golf in price terms, to be like for like.
That's laughable.

Wasn't really comparing just giving an example

Yes autos are more comparable to Evs because you don't have to change gears!

Why just choose the manual?

Manual cars are retarded and I'll never drive one again. I hate them. They are really lame.

johnos1984

Mad_Lad wrote: »

Manual cars are retarded and I'll never drive one again. I hate them. They are really lame.

why?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

........

Yes autos are more comparable to Evs because you don't have to change gears!

Why just choose the manual?.........

I drive an auto at the moment, I like the fact it's an auto but it doesn't put me off manuals

johnos1984

johnos1984 wrote: »

not in Ireland as most our electricity comes from fossil fuels

Are you joking? Do you care how it's generated?

About 40% of night time electricity comes from wind, more energy can be generated to power Evs because turbines won't have to be turned off at periods of low demand, as Evs will create more demand.

And electricity is incredibly cheaper than petrol or diesel to drive on.

johnos1984

Mad_Lad wrote: »

And electricity is incredibly cheaper than petrol or diesel to drive on.

currently but I don't see that happening if ev vehicles become in any way popular

Nissan doctor

All this talk of gammy looking EV's, saving €50 a month on 'fuel', having to drive a very specific way and not exceeding a certain number of miles etc etc.

Saying this is the future is obviously assuming that people will forget the main points to the existence of the car....freedom to go where you like, when you like and the desire to own and drive cars.

IMO if this is Renaults idea of the future then they are certainly not "reinventing the car" They are actually fundamentally destroying it!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

.........

And electricity is incredibly cheaper than petrol or diesel to drive on.

Not if leasing a battery at the figures you've presented here

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

Not if leasing a battery at the figures you've presented here

Cheaper for me, I don't care about diesel, I'll never go back to diesel, the Prius is the last ice car for me.

I'll wait until the leaf or Zoe, fluency or whatever ev becomes available at a decent price.

I'll wait to see first how long the battery lasts in the leaf.

Nissan doctor

Nissan doctor wrote: »

All this talk of gammy looking EV's, saving €50 a month on 'fuel', having to drive a very specific way and not exceeding a certain number of miles etc etc.

Saying this is the future is obviously assuming that people will forget the main points to the existence of the car....freedom to go where you like, when you like and the desire to own and drive cars.

IMO if this is Renaults idea of the future then they are certainly not "reinventing the car" They are actually fundamentally destroying it!

Lol you call freedom, paying extortionate amounts of tax ? Tax is what is what HAS destroyed motoring, not Evs.

Electric drive is the future and current technology is just the tip of the iceberg.

I don't fing rattling diesels and manual gearboxes progress, it's outdated technology that could have been eliminated years ago but was not due to greed and corruption.

Kristopherus

Nissan doctor wrote: »

All this talk of gammy looking EV's, saving €50 a month on 'fuel', having to drive a very specific way and not exceeding a certain number of miles etc etc.

Saying this is the future is obviously assuming that people will forget the main points to the existence of the car....freedom to go where you like, when you like and the desire to own and drive cars.

IMO if this is Renaults idea of the future then they are certainly not "reinventing the car" They are actually fundamentally destroying it!

Not disagreeing with you Doc, but it will be interesting to see how the Fluence gets on in the Uk. It is ev only.In Ireland the Fluence is diesel only. I'd love to see Renault's comparative figures in,say, 3 years time.

AltAccount

Deleted User wrote: »

Compare driving a golf 1.6 tdi to the zoe.

28,800k for the 1.6 tdi dsg edition r ( never heard of that )

I know I would rather spend 16k on zoe and 160 pm in battery rental than 29 k on a 1.6 dsg golf any day!

There is no 1.5 dsl clio auto that I can find, adding more to the cost!

Actually the bigger fluence would be a lot cheaper.

The Zoe is a Clio sized car.

If you're comparing the Zoe to a VW, surely it'd be more appropriate to choose the Polo. It seems disingenuous to choose (probably) the most expensive competitor, go up a model class and then insist on automatic.

Let's try the Polo 1.2TDI Bluemotion for example. It costs €20,615 OTR and does 80.7mpg.

How does that affect your comparative figures?