Renault Zoe, would you buy it ?

Compare driving a golf 1.6 tdi to the zoe.

28,800k for the 1.6 tdi dsg edition r ( never heard of that )

I know I would rather spend 16k on zoe and 160 pm in battery rental than 29 k on a 1.6 dsg golf any day!

There is no 1.5 dsl clio auto that I can find, adding more to the cost!

Actually the bigger fluence would be a lot cheaper.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

If my figures are correct that would = 630 miles @64 mpg with 45 litres, or about 530 miles per 38 litres before you fill up because no no one runs the tank dry!

That's 60 euro's at 1.60 per litre. I doubt the clio would average 64 mpg, once diesels hit town and city driving the mpg takes a nose dive. I've driven them for 350,000+ miles.

My sisters 1.6 hdi 308 does about 50-54 mpg max. My prius MK II actually does better!

You lost me with the point you are making about filling up tbh, you can top up the tank whenever you want, it doesn't have to go below half full if that tickles your fancy

I drove a 2005 Mondeo diesel 100% urban for a week or so as I was off work and went literally no where except the gym, the city centre, the shop etc, all short spins and it didn't drop below 35mpg, Mondy mpg figures..........

Fuel consumption (urban) 34.9 mpg
Fuel consumption (extra urban) 58.9 mpg
Fuel consumption (combined) 47.1 mpg

1.5 clio diesel mpg figures........

Fuel consumption (urban) 57.7 mpg
Fuel consumption (extra urban) 80.7 mpg
Fuel consumption (combined) 70.6 mpg

1.6 HDi 308 figures.........
Fuel consumption (urban) 47.1 mpg
Fuel consumption (extra urban) 70.6 mpg
Fuel consumption (combined) 60.1 mpg


I reckon autotrader mpg figures are decent enough tbh, taking your experience of 50 to 54mpg for the 308 into account (half way between urban and combined figs from autotrader) and I don't think 64mpg from the Clio over 18000 miles is unrealistic

Deleted User wrote: »

Compare driving a golf 1.6 tdi to the zoe.

28,800k for the 1.6 tdi dsg edition r ( never heard of that )

I know I would rather spend 16k on zoe and 160 pm in battery rental than 29 k on a 1.6 dsg golf any day!

There is no 1.5 dsl clio auto that I can find, adding more to the cost!

Actually the bigger fluence would be a lot cheaper.

Why pick a Golf? How are they anyway comparable to a Zoe? If you are going comparing the cost of a Golf to a Zoe to make it look affordable this thread has just gone to the bin imo.

You are after comparing manufacturer mpg ratings, I was quoting real life what I got in the 308 and I don't trust auto journalist figures either.

The auto version would get less mpg. And cost more to buy.

You are not comparing like with like either by comparing mpg ratings with manuals. Evs have no gearbox.

The Zoe is a lot smaller than the Prius and I would have to see it to know if it's size is for me, but I wouldn't buy new anyway. If I can pick one up in 2 years for 11 k then happy days.

lomb

I dont believe the low electricity costs banded about. Afaik electricity per KWH is 3 times the cost of oil . Ok diesel at the pumps has an additional say 50% cost from excise which leccy doesnt.
And an electric car is 100 % say efficient whereas a diesel is say 40% efficient.
so to me it works about the same doing the sums and remember guys leccy isnt excised today but it will be tomorrow for vehicular use. Seems like a no brainer to me electric cars today are unviable economically. Performance and range leaves alot to be desired additionally.

Actually converting to LPG would probably be the cheapest way to go until the government screw us on tax for it too!

johnos1984

lomb wrote: »

I dont believe the low electricity costs banded about. Afaik electricity per KWH is 3 times the cost of oil . Ok diesel at the pumps has an additional say 50% cost from excise which leccy doesnt.
And an electric car is 100 % say efficient whereas a diesel is say 40% efficient.
so to me it works about the same doing the sums and remember guys leccy isnt excised today but it will be tomorrow for vehicular use. Seems like a no brainer to me electric cars today are unviable economically. Performance and range leaves alot to be desired additionally.

And they won't be viable tomorrow due to excise on electricity

I factored in your real life experience to the manufacturers figures

You're sisters mpg is half way between the manufacturers claim for urban and combined, half way between urban and combined for the Clio is 63/64mpg I though it an excellent use of the available data.

So when comparing the running costs of EV to cars powered by petrol or diesel we must only look at automatic cars so we are comparing like with like ?
So you compare a Zoe to a DSG Golf in price terms, to be like for like.
That's laughable.

lomb

lomb wrote: »

I dont believe the low electricity costs banded about. Afaik electricity per KWH is 3 times the cost of oil . Ok diesel at the pumps has an additional say 50% cost from excise which leccy doesnt.
And an electric car is 100 % say efficient whereas a diesel is say 40% efficient.
so to me it works about the same doing the sums and remember guys leccy isnt excised today but it will be tomorrow for vehicular use. Seems like a no brainer to me electric cars today are unviable economically. Performance and range leaves alot to be desired additionally.

Evs are about 80 % efficient.

Diesel has more like 65 % tax applied.

I wouldn't say diesel is 40 % efficient more like 30

Electricity will always be much cheaper than petrol or diesel. They can't apply the same tax to domestic electricity, ant solar prices are dropping really fast. Currently about 1 euro per watt.

johnos1984

Mad_Lad wrote: »

Electricity will always be much cheaper than petrol or diesel. .

not in Ireland as most our electricity comes from fossil fuels

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

I factored in your real life experience to the manufacturers figures

You're sisters mpg is half way between the manufacturers claim for urban and combined, half way between urban and combined for the Clio is 63/64mpg I though it an excellent use of the available data.

So when comparing the running costs of EV to cars powered by petrol or diesel we must only look at automatic cars so we are comparing like with like ?
So you compare a Zoe to a DSG Golf in price terms, to be like for like.
That's laughable.

Wasn't really comparing just giving an example

Yes autos are more comparable to Evs because you don't have to change gears!

Why just choose the manual?

Manual cars are retarded and I'll never drive one again. I hate them. They are really lame.

johnos1984

Mad_Lad wrote: »

Manual cars are retarded and I'll never drive one again. I hate them. They are really lame.

why?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

........

Yes autos are more comparable to Evs because you don't have to change gears!

Why just choose the manual?.........

I drive an auto at the moment, I like the fact it's an auto but it doesn't put me off manuals

johnos1984

johnos1984 wrote: »

not in Ireland as most our electricity comes from fossil fuels

Are you joking? Do you care how it's generated?

About 40% of night time electricity comes from wind, more energy can be generated to power Evs because turbines won't have to be turned off at periods of low demand, as Evs will create more demand.

And electricity is incredibly cheaper than petrol or diesel to drive on.

johnos1984

Mad_Lad wrote: »

And electricity is incredibly cheaper than petrol or diesel to drive on.

currently but I don't see that happening if ev vehicles become in any way popular

Nissan doctor

All this talk of gammy looking EV's, saving €50 a month on 'fuel', having to drive a very specific way and not exceeding a certain number of miles etc etc.

Saying this is the future is obviously assuming that people will forget the main points to the existence of the car....freedom to go where you like, when you like and the desire to own and drive cars.

IMO if this is Renaults idea of the future then they are certainly not "reinventing the car" They are actually fundamentally destroying it!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

.........

And electricity is incredibly cheaper than petrol or diesel to drive on.

Not if leasing a battery at the figures you've presented here

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

Not if leasing a battery at the figures you've presented here

Cheaper for me, I don't care about diesel, I'll never go back to diesel, the Prius is the last ice car for me.

I'll wait until the leaf or Zoe, fluency or whatever ev becomes available at a decent price.

I'll wait to see first how long the battery lasts in the leaf.

Nissan doctor

Nissan doctor wrote: »

All this talk of gammy looking EV's, saving €50 a month on 'fuel', having to drive a very specific way and not exceeding a certain number of miles etc etc.

Saying this is the future is obviously assuming that people will forget the main points to the existence of the car....freedom to go where you like, when you like and the desire to own and drive cars.

IMO if this is Renaults idea of the future then they are certainly not "reinventing the car" They are actually fundamentally destroying it!

Lol you call freedom, paying extortionate amounts of tax ? Tax is what is what HAS destroyed motoring, not Evs.

Electric drive is the future and current technology is just the tip of the iceberg.

I don't fing rattling diesels and manual gearboxes progress, it's outdated technology that could have been eliminated years ago but was not due to greed and corruption.

Kristopherus

Nissan doctor wrote: »

All this talk of gammy looking EV's, saving €50 a month on 'fuel', having to drive a very specific way and not exceeding a certain number of miles etc etc.

Saying this is the future is obviously assuming that people will forget the main points to the existence of the car....freedom to go where you like, when you like and the desire to own and drive cars.

IMO if this is Renaults idea of the future then they are certainly not "reinventing the car" They are actually fundamentally destroying it!

Not disagreeing with you Doc, but it will be interesting to see how the Fluence gets on in the Uk. It is ev only.In Ireland the Fluence is diesel only. I'd love to see Renault's comparative figures in,say, 3 years time.

AltAccount

Deleted User wrote: »

Compare driving a golf 1.6 tdi to the zoe.

28,800k for the 1.6 tdi dsg edition r ( never heard of that )

I know I would rather spend 16k on zoe and 160 pm in battery rental than 29 k on a 1.6 dsg golf any day!

There is no 1.5 dsl clio auto that I can find, adding more to the cost!

Actually the bigger fluence would be a lot cheaper.

The Zoe is a Clio sized car.

If you're comparing the Zoe to a VW, surely it'd be more appropriate to choose the Polo. It seems disingenuous to choose (probably) the most expensive competitor, go up a model class and then insist on automatic.

Let's try the Polo 1.2TDI Bluemotion for example. It costs €20,615 OTR and does 80.7mpg.

How does that affect your comparative figures?

Nissan doctor

Deleted User wrote: »

Lol you call freedom, paying extortionate amounts of tax ? Tax is what is what HAS destroyed motoring, not Evs.

Electric drive is the future and current technology is just the tip of the iceberg.

I don't fing rattling diesels and manual gearboxes progress, it's outdated technology that could have been eliminated years ago but was not due to greed and corruption.

Spoken like someone for who motoring is simply a means of getting from A to B as cheaply and with as little driver input as possible.

As with most green arguments, only the opinions of those who agree are listened to. You conveniently forget that for huge numbers of people motoring is not just about getting around, its about a certain passion and pleasure of operating and getting feedback from a machine....and for these people, electric plastic boxes on wheels will never be the future!

Nissan doctor

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Spoken like someone for who motoring is simply a means of getting from A to B as cheaply and with as little driver input as possible.

As with most green arguments, only the opinions of those who agree are listened to. You conveniently forget that for huge numbers of people motoring is not just about getting around, its about a certain passion and pleasure of operating and getting feedback from a machine....and for these people, electric plastic boxes on wheels will never be the future!

I'm more of a technology nut than a petrol nut. I do,love my cars too. But tax is a killer, Evs will get cheaper no doubt. I need my car and I don't want to have to,pay high taxes to,use it any more and so electric offers me any many others an alternative . I never buy new and probably won't buy a new ev either, But as soon as I can pick one up at a decent price and the battery is has proved to be reliable, then I'll buy one.

In renaults case I don't have to worry about the battery. I'm sick and tired of,having to buy increasingly older cars because driving has become so expensive , so yes, I would be prepared to,spend a little more on an e.v that is newer and costs far less to drive, or fuel.

Compton

I can't see anyway an ev will be cheaper than driving a normal car even with the taxes involved.

unkel

RoverJames wrote: »

Seventy a month would fuel a diesel one for than mileage me thinks.

LOL my first thought exactly when I read the OP. Did my sums before reading any other posts in this thread and I was wonderfully surprised that the break even suggestion from your post was exactly what my sums came up with

And neither of us bothered to take into account any (no doubt miniscule) cost of electricity to power the EV

bladebrew

its the range that bothers me, in my case i spend most of my time driving in cork city maybe a bit further, my parents live nearly 200 miles away though so an electric car isnt an option there,
and long distance trips are out, in one bank holiday weekend last year i covered more than 500miles in 2 days between west cork and rosslare, again not an option with an electric car,
nissan doctor has hit the nail on head i think, its all restricting freedom these fecking electric cars,

Compton

The technology just isn't good enough yet.

Jimdagym

I'd rather walk.

Pkiernan

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Spoken like someone for who motoring is simply a means of getting from A to B as cheaply and with as little driver input as possible.

As with most green arguments, only the opinions of those who agree are listened to. You conveniently forget that for huge numbers of people motoring is not just about getting around, its about a certain passion and pleasure of operating and getting feedback from a machine....and for these people, electric plastic boxes on wheels will never be the future!

Yeah, I see all the passion in stop'n'go traffic along the Quays.
Not to mention all the looks of pleasure when folks are shaking their heads in disbelief looking at the prices at the pumps.
And the feedback from the road when you drive into a 2 ft pothole.

I think you have been watching too much Jeremy Clarkson.
Try bumper cars next time the Carnies are in town- now there's some passion :P

I like my bank holiday trips and 95 % of my driving needs can be met with an ev.

I can fast charge, no way would I buy a 300 mile range ev, it doesn't make sense to pay so much for range that you rarely need.

I'll be laughing my head off when I buy an ev in 2 or 3 years any ye are getting screwed in every way possible.

Sesshoumaru

Owen wrote: »

Couldn't resist ...

*Music*








*Drum roll*








TADAA!



I'm not a fan of separate battery leasing, at least not with the mileage restrictions Renault are proposing. I was at their road show in Carton House where I got to drive some of their EV's. The head of Renault's EV program gave a PowerPoint type presentation in which the cost was put at €70-ish for 15,000km a year. At the time I did put it to her that I was averaging 2,000 kilometers per month in my electric car.

I do think the car looks nice though and from what I've read, the technology looks good. I think the Chameleon charger Renault have developed is a nice fit for today's electricity grid.

http://blog.renault.com/en/2012/03/06/renault-zoe-quite-simply-revolutionary-and-yet-a-reality/

ZOE is the only electric vehicle to feature the Chameleon charger. Patented by Renault, this charger is compatible with all power levels up to 43kW. Charging batteries at a charging station can take between 30 minutes and nine hours. For example, ZOE can be charged in an hour at 22kW. This intermediate power level extends battery life and puts less pressure on the power grid than the fast-charging of batteries at 43kW. Fast-charging stations are currently equipped with high-power chargers. Now that the Chameleon charger is fitted to the vehicle, there is no longer any need for chargers at charging stations. New fast-charging stations will be opened which are easier and more cost-effective. They will cost less than €3,000, a quarter of the cost of existing fast-charging stations.

The Leaf fast charges at 50kw and newest Fast Chargers are smaller and cost around 6k to 7k from what I've read.