Meath GAA discussion thread

Bonniedog

Sonny, the Dublin Meath rivalry is one of defining parts of not only Leinster but GAA overall. Goes back generations.

I would rate the Meath team of late 80s as one of greatest teams to play the game. Full forward line Stafford, Rourke, Flynn were something else.

We happen to have exceptional group of players at the moment. Never seen before, and never be seen again. Will end, like all things do. Underage is clue to the future.

Sonny678

I agree Bonniedog. You have some of the greatest players ever to play for Dublin. Cluxton is probaly the greatest goalie of all time and possibly only Heffernan has had a bigger influence on Dublin as a player. Brogan is one of the greatest Dublin forwards ever. Only Keaveney or Heffernan would be better. And Connolly is one Dublins most talented players ever. Then you have McMahon Mcarthy Sullivan Kilkenny Flynn Callaghan Andrews the list goes on. This Dublin team are one of the greatest teams of all time.

You would think Dublin might be weaker at start of next decade with retirements of Brogan Connolly and Cluxton. But when you see Callaghan coming on the scene. He's like a Dublin version of Jimmy Barry Murphy. A football and hurling great in the making. He looks a special talent. There is a conveyor belt of talent. But I hope with the McEntees we will improve. Gerry and Andy know Dublin inside out. This can only be good for us. I think we have the best management since Boylan. Do we have the players, time will tell. But reaching div 1 and staying there is the key. And also underage sucess. We have to turn the current young teams we have and all the good work done at underage into trophies. Meath is football mad county. And a strong Meath would be good for the game. You do miss the Meath v Dublin battles of old.

Bonniedog

Look at the underage games. Dublin had huge run of success at 21 but not minor. Dublin teams getting beaten regularly by other Leinster teams.

But, to be nostalgic. And we are both of same vintage, probably. First time I remember us playing Meath was 1974. My da remembered seeing Dublin winning All Irelands in 58 and 63 but beating Meath was huge thing then. And as you said, quite often whoever wins the old firm wins the All Ireland.

Next memory was league final in 1975 when you chinned us. Ken Rennicks and all them boys.

I know there is myth that we hate one other but I always supported Meath when you got out of Leinster. including 1991 when I watched the final surrounded by nordies. "But sure you hate Meath." Well I don't.

Dublin have unique team at present. Meath had unique team in 80s onwards. There will never be games that had the atmosphere of Dublin/Meath. And despite the edge there was nothing like the nastiness that existed with other counties. Played junior with one of Dublin players in 90s and he had height of respect, once it was over!, for Meath. Boylan made speech in Dublin dressing room after the 95 final which probably inspired them to go on. But of course the bollix got us back next year!

Sonny678

There is respect. Meath always respected the way Dubs would take it and give it. But no whinging. It was tough. But it was real. And there was an underlying respect on both sides after every yearly battle.

There is respect definatly from.people who remeber the 70s 80s and 90s. I think Dublin fans younger fans look at Meath in the last ten years and don't see a rivalry it is so one sided. So when they hear people like me they go what's he on about Meath are divsion 2 team.

And they are right. The last two games where so one sided. 2014 Final I would say is the first time since 1920s Meath v Dublin game was over by half time. Even in 95 , Meath were ahead with nearly 10 mins to go, before Dublin cut loose. There was bad lose in early 60s and also in early 80s but I think 2014 final is unprecedented for Meath and Dublin. And in 2016 the atmosphere was very poor. The rivalry is so one sided. But this swing from one county dominating to another is not unusual. What's making this period so long. Meath should have won more between 2007 and 2010 and the arrival of golden Dublin generation.

First battles where in the 40s. Meath only appeared on the scene in the 30s. Dublin were seen as unbeatable. The best country players in Ireland were playing Dublin. Meath would dominate between 47 and 54. Winning 5 games v Dublin in 5 years. The battles between Kevin Heffernan and Paddy O Brien are legendary. But Meaths Hell kitchen full back line of the two O 'Brien and McConnell won the day. The greatest full back line to ever play football.

Then Heffernan and Dublin decided in response to Louth and Meath's sucess. Dublin was now a Dublin team with Dublin players. St Vincent's backboned the Dublin team now. In 1955 Meath were hockeyed when Kevin Heffernan gave Paddy O Brien a tour of Croke Park. This is probaly the first proper Meath v Dublin game. Dublin where seen as changing the face of football in 55. But Kerry defeated Dublin in 55 final and so began Heffernans lifelong obsession with Kerry.

Dublin from 55 to 63 where top dogs wining finals in 58 and 63. Meath disappeared. No one expected Meath to appear in 1964. But they did backboned by the three Quinn brothers from kilbride. Their father was very sick. The sons didn't want to play the final for the father had very little time left. He told them go out and beat Dublin in Croke Park. That's what they did. Meath defeated the reigning champions in many peoples eyes with the best performance in leinster final ever by a Meath team. With only the game of the decade Offaly v Meath leinster final of 1970 anywhere close .

Dublin would not win another leinster title for another ten years. As Meath took over reaching 3 finals winning 1 . And defeating the great Down team in a semi final by 14 points in 66. Jack Quinn was to many the best footballer in Ireland in mid 60s. Remeber Mick Dwyer Mattie McDonagh Mick O Connell Sean O Neill where all playing. He must have been good.

Dublin went up a level in fitness preparation in 70s wining 3 Sam's and 6 leinster finals in a row. The Meath team was very strong. And in any other era would have won Sam. Ken Rennicks is the greatest Meath player never to win Sam. You also had Mattie Kerrigan. And young players Colm O Rourke Joe Cassels and Gerry McEntee. Every year Dublin won All Ireland in the 70s they played Meath. And many Dublin players said the games with Meath where the making of them. Meath did beat Dublin in league final in 1975. The only team along with Kerry to beat Dublin in a national final in the 70s. In 74 we could have won. In 76 we should have won. In 77 how we didn't win v the dubs is a mystery. We dominated the second half.and kicked wide after wide. Dublin won by 2. Defeated kerry in the semi final comprehensively by 7 . And hammered Armagh in the final. And won the double. People said Cork where the third best team in the country at the time. They were wrong, for from 74 to 77 Meath were.

Meath again fell apart. Offaly won 3 in a row. But Dublin got there mojo back and where along with kerry the top 2 in the country in mid 80s. Meath were heading to div 4 after defeats to Wexford and longford in 81 and 82. No one wanted the job. So they gave it to a Meath hurler. Best decision ever.

Boylan drew with the All Ireland champions Dublin in his first season. But it was not til in the rain and muck in 86 Dublin were toppled and then began the most sucessful period any team ever had over Dublin. In 5 years Meath played 9 times ( 8 in the championship and 1 league final) Meath lost once. The highpoint was the three in a row in 88. The only team ever to beat Dublin in 3 leinster finals. The loss of Lyons for 89 final meant Joe McNally was free to run riot around the square. If Lyons was playing Meath would have a third all ireland in a row that year. But 88 league final was the best performance. With 14 Meath men defeating Dublin by 9 points. With Bernard Flynn given probaly the greatest forward performance ever by a Meath man in Croke Park.

The 4 games in 91 changed the face of the GAA. First year of sponsors. The fourth game was first ever game on Saturday. And first ever game televised live that was not an All Ireland final or semi final or Railway cup final. If you want to know when modern GAA begins. It began with 4 games in 91.
The match ended perfectly with probaly the greatest goal ever scored in Croke Park. For 15 mins after the game the whole hill 16 stood motionless in the Sun. You could see them almost collectively thinking how the f####$#k did those Meath f####$ker do that.

Meath decline again. Dublin have period of sucess culminating in 95 Sam win. And probaly Dublins finest win over Meath along (55 and 2014 ) with the 10 points win in 95. Meath and Boylan were seen as yesterday's men in 95. Dublin would dominate for the for seen future. The truth is Dublin would not reach another final for 16 years.

Meath came from nowhere with one of the greatest young teams ever. Along with Kerry team of 1975 (which are the only other team to win Sam with Under 21) Meath won the All Ireland with 7 Under 21. And another period of sucess over Dublin followed. The football played by Meath in the first half in the 97 victory over Dublin and 99 leinster final victory was as good as football I have ever seen a Meath team play v Dublin. The magic trio of Trevor Giles Graham Geraghty and Ollie Murphy running riot.

Dublin emerged back on the scene in 2002 and could have won the All.Ireland that year. Boylan left. Dublin were relieved. Boylan had defeated Dublin in 8 leinster finals. The manager with the second best record v Dublin in leinster was Eugene McGee with 2 leinster finals over Dublin. Boylan had led Meath to more victories in leinster finals over Dublin then the whole rest of the provience of leinster had all together over Dublin in the last 80 to 90 years.

The last great Meath Dublin game was 2007. Two crackers. 4 magic Ward points was the highlight of the first day. Alan Brogan came of age in the replay. Meath loss in the 2007 replay is Meaths only loss in a replay in the chamouinship in the last 35 years. We have only lost 5 replays in over 140 years of gaelic football.

Of course 2010 was special for us. Sheridan Ward Bray Farrell all were class forwards. And one day they would click. And on that day they did. With 1 brillant goal after another. Since that it has been Dublin all the away. The margin of difference has increased from 3 points in 2012 to 7 in 2013 to 16 in 2014 and 10 in 2016. The Dubs were now in complete control of leinster and the whole of the country.

It's a rivalry living on memories now. But when it was strong it gripped the country. Culchies v Jackeens. Bogmen v city slickers. It the classic traditional rivalry. Hopefully some day again Meath and Dublin will rock Jones Road once again. Because there is nothing like 30000 Meath folk versus 30000 Dublin folk. Forget Man City v Utd or Celtic v Rangers. Or El classico Real v Barca. They are all imitations of rivalries. Meath v Dublin is two Irish tribes going to war. It's Mick Lyons versus Mcgregor. It's Tommy Tiernan versus Bono. It's New grange versus Trinity's College. It's Slane Castle versus Dublin castle. It's Padraig Harrington versus Barry Geraghty. Mick Lyons once said playing Dublin was a matter of life and death. If you saw the games in 80s and 90s you would know what he meant.
It's mid July the hay saved and the Dubs are beaten. Will we ever hear that cry again over the plains of the Royal County again ?. You just never know when it comes to Meath and Dublin.

iDave

RockyRory wrote: »

iDave wrote: »

Whatever it is you're on I want some of it.

its called tradition and belief

Ah come off it counts for nothing in the real world. We're close to 20 years of mediocrity now.

Sonny678

That is statistically wrong. If we have been medicore then everyone is. In the last 20 years only Dublin kerry Tyrone Cork would be more sucessful. We still would be more sucessful then all the teams in Connacht all the the teams in leinster ( exception Dublin) and all the teams in Ulster ( exception Tyrone and Donegal). Our record against the top counties would be still better then anyone. Maybe Tyrone and Donegal would be closer.
In the last 20 years we have won
1 All Ireland
Reached 2 All Ireland finals
Reached 4 All Ireland semi finals
And beating all the top teams
We have beating Kerry Dublin ( both record defeats in their history)
We have beaten Dublin 4 times and 1 draw. The best record in that period in the country v Dublin
Beaten Tyrone Armagh Cork Galway ( twice) Mayo Westmeath Laois Louth Roscommon . (By doing this I am kind of degrading other counties but I'm trying to show the idea we are mediocre for 20 years is wrong )

Even since we last played in an All Ireland final say 15 years ago our record is not medicore in comparison to other counties it's still very good. Only handful teams would be better. Even in the last ten years our record is good better then Kildare Galway Roscommon Armagh Down Derry. It is a drop of the high of the 80s and 90s where we were the top county for over 15 years. But we overachieved under Boylan.

Meath have traditionally pushed for a All Ireland every ten years every decade and we have achieved this. We have been consistent. In that we were strong in 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s and 00s. Only Kerry Dublin Cork and Galway would have been that consistent .
Even in the last ten years even in this decade we have been second most sucessful team leinster ( which is like saying who is the second best team in Scotland after Celtic. Seen how strong Dublin and Celtic are). It's only in the last 5 to 6 years since 2010 we have become mediocre. Division 2 team out of the championship by mid July and beaten by Ulster opposition.

The last 6 years we have been dumped out of the chamouinship 5 years in a row by Ulster opposition. Eg Tyrone 2013 Armagh 2014 Tyrone 2015 Derry 2016 Donegal 2017. We clearly have a problem with Ulster opposition. But what has happened so far in this decade happened in the 40s 50s 60s 80s and 90s all decades we won an All Ireland. We are weak at the start of decade ( break up of a tream) and in the middle of a decade ( team in transition). So what has happened in the last 5 to 6 years it part of the course for Meath football for the last 100 years. It's now when we should be making an impact. If we don't reach an All Ireland final in the next 2 years (.which is not going to happen) it will be our only decade since the 19 20s not to. Galway are in the same position if they don't reach a final in the next two years.

Truthfully how we are after 2023 or 2024 will tell more. If we are still in Division 2 and out of the championship in mid July will then we have truly embraced mediocrity and the idea that Meath could go the way of Cavan after 40s and 50s is a possibility. By 2023 2024 the vast majority of our current players will be around 30, the age the current Dublin and Mayo greats are at the moment, so we have a fuller picture then.

But yes this decade so far has been the worst since 1920s. The worst in a long time. But we are not the only one. A whole group of strong football counties have been unsucessful in the last decade who were hugely sucessful in the 90s. Counties have had one of the their poorest decades in decades. Counties like Meath Down Cork Galway Laois Derry Armagh Kildare Westmeath all have had a average even poor decade. Their worst in a long time. Yet 20 years ago all where going through really sucessful periods. If it was not for the brilliance of Mayo and Donegal this decade would look much more average. It would be just be Kerry and Dublin.

sc86

we are 18 points down again dublin with 15 mins left

its ok lads we have tradition !!

sonny while i admire your optimism , in my opinion this is the exact stereotype type , clutch at straws , stuck in the past , meath fan im talking about
no offence intended and writing another 20 page essay to prove me wrong is great but i wont change anything on the field now
infact it has only proved my point over the last few posts

again its not a personal attack, there and loads and loads of meath football fans the same
just go to a meath game and listen to talk of super 8s and div 1 football to prove it


offaly have tradition in hurling - its no use to them at the minute either , its history

Obrieski

I see the leagues are starting end of January, seems mighty early?
Has there been the release of a master fixture list or anything, i know a couple of years ago there was one from league up to first round of championship - give players some kin of idea when games will be / what the general plan is?

rpurfield

Obrieski wrote: »

I see the leagues are starting end of January, seems mighty early?
Has there been the release of a master fixture list or anything, i know a couple of years ago there was one from league up to first round of championship - give players some kin of idea when games will be / what the general plan is?

There's a squeeze up of the whole season now, the hurling final is in August and the football final the first Sunday in September. It would've been August too only with the Pope coming it would've clashed.

Obrieski

I meant the club season rp...don't think the pope will affect games around Meath somehow

Anyway....team named for tomorrow for O'Byrne Cup Semi Final...another new 15, giving lads a chance which is good to see.
Hopefully another win to give us another semi meaningful game pre the league starting...giving a serious crack at Division 2 is a must for this side. Need to treat it like championship realistically.

rpurfield

Ooops sorry I think it's around the usual time, its an annual tradition to start the A league early then take 11 months to complete them.


I see Colm O'Rourke has stepped down as manager of Simonstown at their AGM.

Hammer Archer

Well this is an absolute disaster. 4 points in 35 minutes with a strong wind.

Hammer Archer

Well that was..... interesting.

rpurfield

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Well that was..... interesting.

You're being very polite Hammer. At least we got value for the €10 especially after that turgid first half. I just hope to jaysus it's a case that they've been running the legs off lads in training.

sc86

and that shows exactly where we are sadly

the way people celebrated yesterday was embarrassing
longford in the obyrne cup is a struggle these days
do they not know about our tradition!

the only way is up

Hammer Archer

sc86 wrote: »

and that shows exactly where we are sadly

the way people celebrated yesterday was embarrassing
longford in the obyrne cup is a struggle these days
do they not know about our tradition!

the only way is up

Ah to be fair, I think the "celebration" was more due to the novelty factor of the shootout. No one was really seriously celebrating. Sure heaps of people left after normal time. They weren't even bothering staying for extra time. The groan from the crowd when ET was announced made it obvious that most people would have preferred to go home.

I think Lavin (apart from his mess up for the goal) was good as was Tobin and Wallace when they came on. Biggy was very disappointing. 4 bad wides and one dropped short. Colgan in goals didn't really inspire confidence but his kickouts were generally OK. One thing we're missing from POR in goals was his ability to save a couple of points that just dropped over the bar.

Very disappointing first half. We had the benefit of a very strong wind but for a long time we had zero players in the opposition half. That seriously cannot be the plan playing with the wind. Also disappointing to lose a 3 point lead in the last 10 minutes of normal time and a 4 point lead in the last 2 minutes of ET. Though if we get our usual collapses out of our system in January, it won't be too bad.

Portlaoise for the final next Sunday.

rpurfield

Andy Mc is threatening to pull the team from the final, can't argue with his logic to be fair

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/sport/gaa/articles/2018/01/17/4150859-meath-withdrawal-from-obyrne-cup-final-remains-an-option--mcentee/

mattser

rpurfield wrote: »

Andy Mc is threatening to pull the team from the final, can't argue with his logic to be fair

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/sport/gaa/articles/2018/01/17/4150859-meath-withdrawal-from-obyrne-cup-final-remains-an-option--mcentee/

Proper order. I'd love to hear the reasons given by the GAA Gods not to play it in Mullingar.

paul0103

rpurfield wrote: »

Andy Mc is threatening to pull the team from the final, can't argue with his logic to be fair

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/sport/gaa/articles/2018/01/17/4150859-meath-withdrawal-from-obyrne-cup-final-remains-an-option--mcentee/

mattser wrote: »

Proper order. I'd love to hear the reasons given by the GAA Gods not to play it in Mullingar.

Completely disagree. I can't understand what the fuss is all about. It's a preseason competition, it's almost as if he would have preferred the team to have lost last Sunday and not have the inconvenience of the final.

Also, from the article

"We've conceded home ground we are quite willing to go to Cusack Park. We were initially told no to that but I think it's still up for negotiation," added McEntee.

Sorry Andy, you never had home advantage to begin with! Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill!

CrabRevolution

It's a strange stance, and something pretty small to be throwing a strop over.

In 2016 Meath played 2 double headers in the O'Byrne cup. I don't remember anyone being injured from playing on a slightly worn pitch.

rpurfield

For me it's the whole thing of dragging people to Portlaoise, if we're happy to go to Mullingar then go there and make it easier on everyone travelling

Hammer Archer

New Meath fan came into the world yesterday shortly after 1:30pm. Already have the adorable baby meath kit ready for her

DoctaDee

Hammer Archer wrote: »

New Meath fan came into the world yesterday shortly after 1:30pm. Already have the adorable baby meath kit ready for her

Congrats Hammer, all the best to the family

Bonniedog

Congrats.

Would you not get the poor wain a decent jersey :-)

Sonny678

Hammer Archer wrote:

New Meath fan came into the world yesterday shortly after 1:30pm. Already have the adorable baby meath kit ready for her

Congratulations Hammer. Great to hear about the newest member of the Royal Meath football family. Irish by birth, Meath by the grace of god. A future Meath All Ireland winning ladies football captain. Congrats again Hammer. All the best to the family.

iDave

Hammer Archer wrote: »

New Meath fan came into the world yesterday shortly after 1:30pm. Already have the adorable baby meath kit ready for her

Congrats Hammer. Good news for Rathoat ladies in a few years.

DoctaDee

iDave wrote: »

Congrats Hammer. Good news for Rathoat ladies in a few years.

Better news for the Ratoath men .. hopefully a Dub in the wilderness !

rpurfield

Hammer Archer wrote: »

New Meath fan came into the world yesterday shortly after 1:30pm. Already have the adorable baby meath kit ready for her

Brilliant news

Hammer Archer

Bonniedog wrote: »

Congrats.

Would you not get the poor wain a decent jersey :-)

Was actually wearing a blue and navy t-shirt when I visited yesterday. Picked her up and she promptly vomited all over it. Obviously disgusted by the colours already :pac:
Cheers lads. Means my match going days will be rather limited but can't wait until she's old enough to bring to her first game.

Felexicon

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Was actually wearing a blue and navy t-shirt when I visited yesterday. Picked her up and she promptly vomited all over it. Obviously disgusted by the colours already :pac:
Cheers lads. Means my match going days will be rather limited but can't wait until she's old enough to bring to her first game.

Congratulations man. Awaiting my first arrival in just over 3 weeks.