Meath GAA discussion thread

paul71

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Why is it that both the result and the manner of it don't surprise me one bit.
It's amazing how the old adage of "Meath don't know when they're beaten" seems to have transformed to "Meath don't know when they've won". Group of Westmeath fans next to me wouldn't believe me at half time when I said the game wasn't over.

So true, in one generation we have gone from a county which every other county feared because we contrived to win the unwinnable to producing teams who cannot seem to able to defend a lead of any size.

Today was depressing but sadly predictable. I really see no planned direction in which the management team seem to wish to go, talent while not enormous is there but on a day when our second half defense was appalling we persisted with our best man-marker at CHB and our best fullback at midfield.

Last night I actually found myself thinking that we may be better off losing today and facing a couple of games in qualifiers as oppossed to a hiding in the leinster final and another tame exit in another post provincial final qualifier. However that will not hold true if we continue to play available players completely out of position.

poppers

If today proved anything it's that mchugh was right meath players don't have the heart for a battle .

Hibbeler

Westmeath it has to be said thoroughly deserved the win today. I'm just disgusted in the way we capitulated when we should have been home and dry. I honestly don't think the problem is in player ability it's their lack of fight and ruthlessness.

There is lot's of work needed to pick ourselves up from this and simply a manager change is not going to be enough though it's hard to see Mick staying on after this year

Rock Lesnar

Hibbeler wrote: »

Westmeath it has to be said thoroughly deserved the win today. I'm just disgusted in the way we capitulated when we should have been home and dry. I honestly don't think the problem is in player ability it's their lack of fight and ruthlessness.

There is lot's of work needed to pick ourselves up from this and simply a manager change is not going to be enough though it's hard to see Mick staying on after this year

I didnt see any lack of ruthlessness or fight in the 1st half today or v wicklow, but what i did see during the game and a lot of the league, was a team incapable of seeing out 70mins, i seen us to many times abandon a style that got us a lead only to revert to a way of playing that looked alien to us (packing the defense) and not having the legs to get up the field.

We got rid of EOB after winning a leinster, alright it wasnt in the manner we would like but it was still progress, and the banty after just one year, Micko with a fantastic back room set up, Giles Kelly, Brendan Murphy there to, has had a couple of years now, and each year we are regressing, of course, with a young team, we need time to get to the stage to beat the dubs, but we've gone from given them a game for 50mins 3 years ago, to nothing against them last year, to not even playing them this year.

Do i think he should get another shot next year, probably not on what iv'e seen over the last couple of years, do i think he will, yeah he probably will, but somewhere between now and next year, and no matter who the manager is, we got to find the never give up spirit that made us so hard to play against before we even took to field.

Frustrated Rant over

iDave

Supporting Meath is like heroin. A lot of fun at first but now its just painful and soul destroying and i keep going back for more.

rpurfield

A dark day if you ask me, even worse than Wexford in 08. I don't think it would matter who the manager is anyway, the stuff isn't there. For a county that has had some fantastic defenders down the years we've none at all now. When we got the ball into the forwards in the first half they were brilliant, but the back line is a shambles. No one willing to put their hand up and show some leadership.

It's long past the time for a complete overhaul in the county from top to bottom, we've produced little or no underage success in about 20 years, so we need to start there. We may write off the next 5-10 years too

homeofhurling

in fairness meath are better off out of it as the Dubs would give them a lesson for the 3rd year in a row,

clint_silver

homeofhurling wrote: »

in fairness meath are better off out of it as the Dubs would give them a lesson for the 3rd year in a row,

Looked to me like they had Dublin on their minds 15 minutes from the end. I was sat top of the cusack and it was like the whole Meath team just dropped energy and enthusiasm by 20-30%

In fairness to wm they got a sniff of victory, took their chances. Can't help but think it was gifted though.

Shane732

Even ignoring what he did at the end of the game Paddy O' Rourke is a shockingly poor goalie. He's not a shot stopper at all.

Our backs are awful and no matter who the opposition is you always have this feeling that they can run through us.

The management team were so poor today as well. If we'd just gone for a blanket defense in the last 15 - 20 mins and crowded them out we would have got over the line.

Kicked some poor wides as well and they looked out on their feet from the 50 minute mark.

I don't really agree with saying that we're as well off not playing Dublin. At the end of the day Dublin are the benchmark - if were not going to compete with them then there's no point going out at all.

LeoB

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

We got rid of EOB after winning a leinster,

Do i think he should get another shot next year, probably not on what iv'e seen over the last couple of years, do i think he will, yeah he probably will, but somewhere between now and next year, and no matter who the manager is, we got to find the never give up spirit that made us so hard to play against before we even took to field.

Frustrated Rant over

To me the biggest mistake Meath made in the last 10 years was getting rid of Eamon. He had that Meath belief in him and Meath football would be in a far healthier state had he been left there.

No point blaming Mick O'Dowd. He has a panel of players who are still quite young and I think the talent is there. A certain amount of luck is needed and unlike previous years it has deserted Meath. Injuries are a big issue and if Meath had a full hand to play with they would be in a Leinster final and a serious threat to Dublin or anyone else..

Westmeath it appears took a leaf out of the Meath book with their attitude today. They never gave gave up and fully deserved their win. As a Dub I was hoping Meath would get to the final as apart from last year it would be a great challenge to Dublin.

Hibbeler

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

I didnt see any lack of ruthlessness or fight in the 1st half today or v wicklow, but what i did see during the game and a lot of the league, was a team incapable of seeing out 70mins, i seen us to many times abandon a style that got us a lead only to revert to a way of playing that looked alien to us (packing the defense) and not having the legs to get up the field.

We got rid of EOB after winning a leinster, alright it wasnt in the manner we would like but it was still progress, and the banty after just one year, Micko with a fantastic back room set up, Giles Kelly, Brendan Murphy there to, has had a couple of years now, and each year we are regressing, of course, with a young team, we need time to get to the stage to beat the dubs, but we've gone from given them a game for 50mins 3 years ago, to nothing against them last year, to not even playing them this year.

Do i think he should get another shot next year, probably not on what iv'e seen over the last couple of years, do i think he will, yeah he probably will, but somewhere between now and next year, and no matter who the manager is, we got to find the never give up spirit that made us so hard to play against before we even took to field.

Frustrated Rant over

Rock, I agree with the vast majority of what you've said, however in my view we did lack the ruthlessness to come out in the second half and put Westmeath away instead when the going got tough the old fight was no where to be seen.

Rock Lesnar

Hibbeler wrote: »

Rock, I agree with the vast majority of what you've said, however in my view we did lack the ruthlessness to come out in the second half and put Westmeath away instead when the going got tough the old fight was no where to be seen.

To be fair, its not up to the players what the tactics are, if we had gone out 2nd half, and played the same way as the 1st half, im pretty sure we'd have won, but we didnt, we sat back and invited pressure, then when the momentum changed, we couldn't get it back, i agree fully about the old fight as you call it, its gone missing in the last few years

iDave

So going forward we're on the B side of the draw. My reckoning is we'll be knocked out by Tyrone or Armagh in either round 2 or 3 depending on the draw.

The Showstopper

Absolute muck. With 10/15 minutes to go you could see that the Meath players were wrecked. No leaders stepped up and the bench wasn't strong enough to improve us. Only positive of today is that it was nice to see the Dubs still care about us. Thought they had forgotten about us.

Royal Legend

Game should have been over after 50 minutes, players in better shooting positions not getting the ball, poor shot selection, fitness seemed to be lacking, lots of things contributed, but it is unfair to single out specific players.

Well done Westmeath, have to admit I had a wry smile of my face at the end of the game today, bit of a weekend for the underdog.

mattser

Royal Legend wrote: »

Game should have been over after 50 minutes, players in better shooting positions not getting the ball, poor shot selection, fitness seemed to be lacking, lots of things contributed, but it is unfair to single out specific players.

Well done Westmeath, have to admit I had a wry smile of my face at the end of the game today, bit of a weekend for the underdog.

Well done indeed...a long time coming but richly deserved.

We can have all the post mortems we like, but it was Westmeath's day in the sun.

I just hope they give a better account than the rest of the province in the L.F.

RoyalCelt

rpurfield wrote: »

A dark day if you ask me, even worse than Wexford in 08. I don't think it would matter who the manager is anyway, the stuff isn't there. For a county that has had some fantastic defenders down the years we've none at all now. When we got the ball into the forwards in the first half they were brilliant, but the back line is a shambles. No one willing to put their hand up and show some leadership.

It's long past the time for a complete overhaul in the county from top to bottom, we've produced little or no underage success in about 20 years, so we need to start there. We may write off the next 5-10 years too

Donegal pre mcguiness were getting hammered. The same players that won the all Ireland. Jim came in and actually coached the players to become top class defenders and counter attackers.

Meath style now is similar to Dublin of 2013 and 2014. All out attack man for man and then when we get tired haul everyone back to do a half arsed defensive job with no intensity.

Fact is we are playing a kamikaze style that even Dublin wouldn't win an all Ireland with as donegal proved by hammering them last year.

Westmeath actually line out the same but the reality is the top teams don't. Manager has to go because he hadn't a clue. We need someone like James horan in who can actually grasp how to play like the top teams.

Anyway it's good we lost today. Let westmeath take the Dublin hammering instead and hopefully we go on a run to the quarters.

Poor_old_gill

As a neutral this game was phenomenally puzzling.
First half Westmeath were in disarray and Meath should have been and in some ways were out the gate already!

Second half Meath just started slowly but kept Westmeath at arms length- then they just crumbled.

Westmeath smelled blood, Meaths defensive setup was just ridiculous- a decent club side wouldn't be so poorly organised.

Everything just went wrong from there on out, every decision by Meath players seemed to be incorrect and they just had one of those days!

To be honest Meath aren't as bad as they looked today (in second half)- everything just seemed to crumble and no one stood up and threw a few digs.

Westmeath?? Their manager will prob get another year or 2 out of it on the back of this result but he was almost as clueless tactically as the Meath o dowd

closeline

All blame today should go to players.. They got into a winning position and bottled it then.

No leaders when they were in trouble.

Simple points on offer twice when a point up and a point down but went for goals on both occasions when a point would have been a massive score.

O'Rourke very poor all day. But worse then let his team down and county. Acted the hard man. That was a nasty nasty act and looked like he went in to hurt the man. Yes he was frustrated but that doesn't excuse it especially for a fella who has been around a good bit now and played for his country too.

Graham Reilly was a big loss to be fair.

It's amazing how a season can unravel so quickly. Take Laois and Down as prime examples. Meath looked well on their way to a long summer. At least a place in the last 12 of the All Ireland. Now Meath will do well to be still in the championship in 2 weeks time. This will be a huge blow to them, not sure if they can turn it around.

dave13

Away to Tyrone!

iDave

dave13 wrote: »

Away to Tyrone!

A mercy killing

risteard7

Funny enough i think we might win that. Always better when underdogs.

risteard7

Sorry Tyrone have home advantage. That makes it very hard

Hammer Archer

I'll no doubt make the trip up. Dave's heroin comparison is bang on the money.
I'm actually glad we got Tyrone away. No point in getting a weaker team and possibly scraping through a round or two. Either the players can use yesterday's game as motivation or they can wallow in disappointment and roll over against Tyrone. Think the only two players who can hold their heads high after yesterday were Eamonn and Brian McMahon.

Extremely disappointed with Paddy. I thought after the Roscommon game in which he effectively cost us promotion he would have been working nonstop on his short kickouts. But he gifted Westmeath 1-1 (and didn't exactly cover himself in glory for the other two goals) and then compounded it with that plain nasty incident at the end. Having said that, he definitely doesn't deserve the abuse he's been getting on Twitter.

Think the decision to leave Keogan at half back was one of the things that cost us. McEntee is not a corner back and he was roasted for the last 1-2 that Westmeath got if I remember correctly. Had Keogan been in his position I don't think he would have been beaten so easily. I'd also question the decisions to take Burke and Tormey off when they were doing OK.

Just so many things wrong with yesterday it would be impossible to put them all down in writing. Also impossible to correct them in less than two weeks in my opinion. Cavanagh loves playing against us and after conceding 6-31 against two average teams I can see him having a field day against us in Omagh.

RoyalCelt

Probably the best outcome. If we beat westmeath we'd get annilated by the dubs and probably not be up for the qualifier the next week or two after.

If we somehow beat Tyrone, who we can but lack the know how mainly because of inept management, then we'll have beaten what would feel like a big gun away and the buzz would be back.

Meaning a round 3 match we could win but we everyone back on board. Win that you're flying high coming into round 4 instead of going in on a damp squid.

That's how you go on exciting runs and it all comes down to how much the panel want it. Problem is I'd say some just want it all to end.

Huntergonzo

Well done to Westmeath, they never threw in the towel and fully deserved their victory, I was actually happy for them even though I was bitterly disappointed, it must have been a great day to be a Westmeath fan, so all the best against the Dubs.

As for us, we were excellent in the first half, played some of the best football we've played all year and then collapsed in the last 20 mins of the second half, it was complete nightmare, shades of Wexford 08.

Now I hold both the players and manager equally responsible, it just wasn't good enough from either, I'd question management over some of the substitutions made, especially Rooney, why take off our best fielder unless he had to come off, that was a crazy decision, also our lack of fitness, that is a real worry!

The players have no excuse here either, why did they panic and fall apart so easily, they're like the anti-Meath of old, the decision making from Harnan and Newman to try and work goals was insane when they should have just popped it over the bar and the defense is a joke at the minute.

Finally I don't mind having to go up to Omagh, we might as well play a good team now, you can't dodge them forever and this gives the players and management a chance to say, look we are better than this, if they can do it great, if they fade away then some lads will have to take a long hard look at themselves.

closeline

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Probably the best outcome. If we beat westmeath we'd get annilated by the dubs and probably not be up for the qualifier the next week or two after.

If we somehow beat Tyrone, who we can but lack the know how mainly because of inept management, then we'll have beaten what would feel like a big gun away and the buzz would be back.

Meaning a round 3 match we could win but we everyone back on board. Win that you're flying high coming into round 4 instead of going in on a damp squid.

That's how you go on exciting runs and it all comes down to how much the panel want it. Problem is I'd say some just want it all to end.

It's the manner of the defeat that will do the most damage than actually avoiding a hammering by Dublin in the Leinster Final. If Meath lost yesterday in a game that was close throughout they would have much better hope in the qualifiers. A total collapse however, they will have huge doubts about themselves now and this is probably the worst draw they could have got.

It is hard to see them turning it around in a couple of weeks to go up to Omagh and beat Tyrone.

What is the story with Shane O'Rourke? Still injured?

Hammer Archer

The decision making was atrocious alright. Had Harnan taken his point I think we could have gotten a draw. Also Burke had the entire goal to aim at in the first half yet passed to McMahon in a worse position.

This has become a ridiculously common thing over the last season. In the league, we were 7 up against an awful Laois side and managed to scrape a draw in the last moment. Last year's semi final against Kildare was almost identical to yesterday's game only Kildare didn't have the quality to pull themselves all the way back. I've been a defender of MOD for a good while but I can't see any way he can stay on unless we produce a miraculous run in the qualifiers.

RoyalCelt

closeline wrote: »

It's the manner of the defeat that will do the most damage than actually avoiding a hammering by Dublin in the Leinster Final. If Meath lost yesterday in a game that was close throughout they would have much better hope in the qualifiers. A total collapse however, they will have huge doubts about themselves now and this is probably the worst draw they could have got.

It is hard to see them turning it around in a couple of weeks to go up to Omagh and beat Tyrone.

What is the story with Shane O'Rourke? Still injured?

It depends how they learn from it. Positives to be taken. If we were fitter and more motivated we would have continued steam rolling them.

If we didn't kick a bunch of wides in the first half we'd have been even further ahead.

If our forwards take their points when we are either a point up or a point down near the death we'll not lose.

If the keeper gets his head right we'll do a lot better.

A lot of things to work on and improve.

Or they can just give up and go out with a whimper feeling sorry for themselves.

Pat_custard

RoyalCelt wrote: »

It depends how they learn from it. Positives to be taken. If we were fitter and more motivated we would have continued steam rolling them.

If we didn't kick a bunch of wides in the first half we'd have been even further ahead.

If our forwards take their points when we are either a point up or a point down near the death we'll not lose.

If the keeper gets his head right we'll do a lot better.

A lot of things to work on and improve.

Or they can just give up and go out with a whimper feeling sorry for themselves.

A lot of Ifs there RoyalCelt.