The beginning of a new boat.

whacker1982

Hi all, got all the stuff i need hopefully to finish my first boat.
I came across a couple of chips on the mould, so i got some filler and wet sanded the inperfections.
Mixed up the filler putty with hardener and pushed it into the small chip.
Once the filler had hardened i wet sanded it with some 100 grit sand paper moving up to 160 grit.
Cleaned it off using some acetone, and applied some get coat which i then covered with some duck tape, this was done so the gelcoat would cure (no air getting to the gel coat.)

Using the duck tape was not a good idea because the tape stuck to the gel coat when i peeled the tape off some of the tape stuck to the gel coat.
Just found out i should have used a playing card as it has a waxy effect to them which would make them come off the gel coat in perfect condition.

I also used some ply wood as a template for the gunnels, which i will use a tecnique called lofting to take the curve from the ply and transfer it to the 1" ply that will be apart of the gunnel.
Its not really needed the way im doing it, but its good practice for me, if i ever wanted to build a wooden boat

whacker1982

After i had taken the duck tape out i began to wet sand all of the gel coat off except where the inperfections were using the same sanding grit paper. cleaned it off with acetone.
Really happy with the results came out really well once i had corrected my error :rolleyes:

Now i hit the fiberglass pulled out the 300gpsm chopped strand and layed it out on the mould this part can be a little fustrating because its not gonna just lye in the mould like a dream. A lot of pulling a tuggin to get out the creases.
Also i never cut the fiberlgass with a stanley knife because you would see the straight line in the finished product. Instead i feathered the glass just by ripping it with my hands. When it comes to laying up the resin it will gel together and no signs of lines. (gloves were worn)

Now ive my first layer of fiberglass ready to go.
I think im just gonna do this one first when the time comes because ive 5 layers to do including this one and its an uneven number.
Ill be doing two at time after that.

I took the fiberglass off the mould turned it upside down and gave her a few bangs with a rubber hammer just to get the odd bits of strand that would have broken away for the fiberglass. ( I JUST CALLED MY MOULD A HER)

Next i got some warm soapy water and cleaned the inside of the mould from top to bottom. Ill be doing it again a day or two before my first lay up, for fear some dust might have landed in the mould.

Thats as far as i got so far its perfect weather for lay up but with the inperfections and work there is no way i could manage to get the first layer done this weekend.
Hopefully now with the long weekend coming up ill be able to lay down a layer or even more.

Oh yea, im trying to get my pictures up so you dont have to click on a link, so just say when you click on my thread you see the pictures straight away, instead of having to click on a link.
Any help on this please so i can make my thread more easy to follow. Thanks in advance.

fergal.b

Did you not put on the gelcoat first.

whacker1982

No not yet, i just wanted to cut the fiberglass to the shape of the boat i took it off again and put it to one side. No waxing or gel coat till next week. Just getting the prep all ready.

fergal.b

A good thinking, you should make templates when you have the perfect size figured out then you can lay it out on the fiberglass and work out the best way to cut it with the least amount of waste form a roll.

As for photos I just upload to http://photobucket.com/ then just copy the link and paste in in your post.

Keep up the good work and don't get too sticky

.

breghall

nice thread Whacker,I'll be following your progress....Your clothes and floor will never be the same again

Jack_regan

Glad to see you've made a start on the boat. Who did you get the fibreglass materials off in the end? Sure your all set up now, won't be long now till your easing the first boat out of the mould. Good luck with the project and watch out for the fumes- keep that door open!:D:D

I use www.flickr.com to post photo's on boards. Once you have signed up for an account and uploaded your photo's you click on the "share" button and that will give you the HTML/BBCode that you need to link from your thread. It takes a little getting used to but sure just give it a go, you'll work it out eventually.

This next section is taken from the Newbies and FAQ thread under "sys" on top of page.

"10. How can I insert pictures in my posts?
This is also very easy to do, and very similar to number 9 above:
You don't have to have anything written in the Message box to embed a picture. Text can be entered before or after you insert a picture into your post
Click the little square yellow box with tony mountains in the foreground. It looks like this:
In the box that says "Please enter the URL of your image:", paste in the URL of the picture you want to embed in your post, and click OK"

whacker1982

cheers jack got them off mbfg.co.uk thanks for that. very cheap, good quality stuff. superman could not have delivered them faster.

Jack_regan

Ah yeh they have a good service all right. I thought I recognised that filler as the same one that I got but they must have changed there supplier for the resin etc. or else they just have different labels. The labels on the containers I've always got off them have said mbfg.co.uk on them. (I got the last stuff six months ago) Anyway I'm sure it will work fine.

Also good advice from fergal there about making the templates, that will save a lot of time in the long run. Have you enough mould release there, I've never used it before so I wouldn't know, I suppose you put on a very thin coat of it?

whacker1982

i reckon i do ive done the transom now three times just to see the effect of it. And it didnt put a dent on the tin. gonna wax it eight times im pretty confident ill have enough.

tin79

It will be very interesting to follow. How much are you thinking of asking for them?

Would it be an option to go a choice of fit out to suit angling, hunting etc?

whacker1982

thanks tin 79, yea that idea has popped into my head a few times but since this is the first time ive done anything like this ill just be happy with the first one or two coming out the way they should. After i get the hang of it i might fit them out for fishing, shooting, its a good idea tin 79.
The boat will fit on a roof rack also so that illeminates a trailer.

As for the price i cant say yet. im keeping all reciepts for the cost to build one, then ill ad on labour.
I have no intention of ripping people off, the way i look at is the more people with a boat the merrier.

fergal.b

Do you know if your epoxy is non amine blush I am using west system at the moment and find the blush very annoying so would be interested to hear how you get on with yours.
Cheers.

whacker1982

Not a bother fergal, havent used it yet, but ill take a look tomorrow to see who makes it and is it non amine blush or amine blush.

tin79

Let me know of the price when you do start knocking them out. I might be interested in one with no seats that I can customise myself if thats an option (and my birthday is not too far away )

You can never have too many boats!

whacker1982

tin 79, yea thats no problem, when ive completed the first one ill post up some pictures of the finished product. or if you like you can come down to have a look at it personally, might be easier to make a decision. all up to you.

whacker1982

ok well im back again after a few weeks, where to start now? well the first week was too wet to do any work to the mould due to too much humidity in the air. what i was looking for was 60% humidity in the air and not too much over this.
this is because if there is too much water in the air it will get trapped between the mould and gel coat, which will cause osmosis.
what happens then is the gel coat will blister and it just gives off not a nice look. this will happen also with the resin and fiberglass mixed.
i went and bough a nice second hand humidifier too take the water out of the air. did the job nicely, and was suprised on how much water is achually in the air. right enough about that.

got doing my waxing, i gave it seven coats of releasing wax, and my god this was annoying and exciting at the same time, was happy to be getting a start on the boat.
put on the first layer and waited ten minutes for the wax to dry to a haze, then polished it off after waiting half an hour, minimum! this process was repeated 6 more times. a very sore arm!

once i had done this i then mixed up my gel coat getting really giddy at this stage! painted the hole mould with my first layer then let it sit for ten hours came back and did it for the second and final time, there is some bang off this stuff so a mask is a must.




once another ten hours has passed i was ready for the first coat of 350gsm chopped strand, layed it all down on the mould mixed up a batch of resin and started rolling in the resin.
[IMG][/img]

once all the resin had been applied to the fiberglass, what i did next was come along with a brissle roller and rolled the glass to take any trapped air out of the mix, there seemed to be a few in the usual place like the corners and the keel and stem area, any areas of fiberlgass sticking up i just dabbed it down with a paint brush. oh this stuff stinks too so a mask is a must again. and boiler suit, fiberglass itches and pinches like mad, i mean it gets everywhere, and stays everywhere for days!

humidifier was ticking away all the time while i was doing this, weather was not great outside but at least the humidity was down.

so sunday at long last the resin had hardened, next job was to wet sand it down i used grit 100 which seemed to do it fine, it got rid of all the odd glass fiber sticking up and gave it a really nice smooth finish. so out with the acetone and cleaned it up with a clean cloth. this stuff is more powerful then the last two i mentioned above. but it dose some job in cleaning up the glass. well impressed. so far so good.:)

[IMG][/img]

fergal.b

Looking good, best of luck with the first mold release you will have to get a few beers in for that.:D

whacker1982

cheers fergal, beer o clock in a few weeks all going well.

whacker1982

back again, finally a weekend off work can really get cracking on this project of mine.
i went and cut out the shape for the port side of the mould using the 450gs mat, and the same for the starboard side, popped open my polyester resin and starting putting down the second layer (first layer of 450gs mat)
not paying attention to what polyester resin i had left, i only had enough to do the port side, the 450gs absorbs the resin alot more then i had though. :eek:

waited till the port side had dried and did the norm wet sanded it down and cleaned it off with acetone, followed by the hoover.

then the good man at dpd had arrived with my resin enough to do the job i reckon.


back in business again:)
put back on the starboard side chopped strand and started the lay up process .


first layer of 450gs chopped strand mat down. 3 to go.

made up a template for the transom this was the best of many failed attempts. ill keep this maybe to one side of another boat. think i could do it better, but ill hold onto it just in case.


layed down the second layer of 450gs mat, remember that one side is still wet and the other is dried and sanded, the dried side took a nice bit of resin, talking 3 litres, it is thirsty mat but what i found was on the wet side it stuck like glue to the wet side, a bit of thugging and pulling and a couple of f%$£s of course but when it was layed in right it soaked up the first layers 450gs resin really well, was really happy with this, and it only used 1 &1/2 liters of resin this is key im thinking. big savings here ill be doing this for the last two layers, must faster and saves on resin which aint cheap.
i forgot to take a picture of the second lay up to show how it soaked up the first layers resin.
i was destroyed in resin and strands of fiberglass so the camera would have prob been destroyed anyway. ( running low on rubber gloves)

ok so popped in the 1/2 inch transom clamped in up and braced it up hopefully when the resin cures it will stick to the aft of the mould.
i changed the size of the transom from 1 inch to 1/2 inch didnt really think it would need a full inch of plywood. 1/2 inch plenty of strength for a 10ft boat.


i was going to cover the transom in epoxy for added strength but i was not too sure how it would react with the polyester resin, so i did a bit of searching on google and it did say that you can epoxy over polyester, but not polyester over epoxy, got a little unsure here so i contacted my suppliers and they said that it would not bond properly no matter which way it was done.

also the two weights that are sitting on the starboard side of the hull, there was trapped air in these two places and for the love of it i could not get them out with the brissel brush so i popped two weights on the bubbles and they popped, i hope.
so far so good any way people.;)

fergal.b

Looking good but I would definitely double on the transom thickness there is a lot of stress caused by the outboard even a small one and I think that 1/2 inch will just flex and brake up. The standard I work with is under 5.5 hp 1-1/4" to 1-3/4" and 5.5 hp to 16 hp 1-3/8" to 1-3/4" Better safe than sorry.

Jack_regan

Coming along nicely, keep up the good work!

whacker1982

came home early from work today so started getting ready for the gunnels of the boat. got a length of 3x2 timber and chopped lots of pieces 3x3x2. i soaked the timber in resin for soakege only did it the once, prob be better to have done it the second time, it soaks it up pretty fast.
these little blocks will be covered in fiberglass so i need them to stick.



next job was to chop up some fiberglass into little over sized squares, these will go between the boat and the blocks of timber.
i spaced the timber blocks out 8 inches apart, still retaining the curve of the boat.

ran out of clamps!


you may notice that i removed the half inch transom. i took fergals advice and have ordered a sheet of 1 inch ply, also the planks for the seats. need to shoot to limerick to get some white oak for the keel and stem,
all timber now for a while

fergal.b

If there is one thing I have learned in boatbuilding it's you can never have enough clamps

whacker1982

ha ha my god, there is just too many to count.

breghall

keep up the good work Whacker, glad you took Fergals advice on the transom, it's good to know that there are people on here who are willing to show their work and take advice and learn from it.... nice thread, i like the updates.

whacker1982

thanks breghall, its all a learning process. ill take all the advice i can get. nice to hear your enjoying this thread.

Jack_regan

Thumbs up from me to on the thread too, really interesting to see the boat building process throughout all it's various stages. I was going to say, that you have a lot of clamps there until I saw the picture posted by Fergal, that's extreme clamping!

Good Luck with the rest of the build.:)

whacker1982

started work on the stringers, simple piece of 2x1 timber cut to size and planed down to suit the stringers in the moulds.
after planing


got cracking on the seat supports after this, again just a 2x1 piece of timber which were planed to size, i got 9inch timber planking which will be the seats, i made to supports an inch and a half over size. just to make things a little fancy looking

popped these fellows into a bucket of water leave them soak for a few days before steam bending them. have to do this for the center and bow of the boat, because of the curve getting narrower towards the bow. (Q is there a name for the center of a boat?)


went at the blocks on the starboard side of the boat, same again cut a square of fiberglass and some resin and clamped them together.

once these had cured i cut five squares of glass for each individual side of the timber block, and these were attached to the blocks. after this was done i cut out 14x2 inch strips of 450gpm glass to go in between each block and run up the side of both blocks and make my way up the boat. this process will be done once more in total two times this way.
the gunnels will need to be strong as there will be alot of bumping, pushing and pulling done on this side of the boat. so i need to make these little fellows tough.

it looks messy i know but it will be sanded smoothe once it has cured.

whacker1982

here how it looks so far. i took this picture before i went at the blocks with fiberglass. i also put in the one inch transom.
i still have to glass in the port side stringer of the boat.

fergal.b

Looking good, how thick it the timber you have to bend for the stem ? would it be easier to make it with laminated 1/2" strips and bend them into shape while the epoxy between the strips is still wet and clamp it to a mock up of the shape you need or another way is to cut the shape out of plywood and laminate it to the thickness you need. Just a thought

The central part of a boat is called amidship the wooden strip down the middle is the center keel and at the bow it's the stem.

whacker1982

ive been doing some pondering about that one too fergal, ill say ill go with the first idea, cut strips to make a template. ive not measured it yet but looking at it id say its only 1" wide and 1 1/2" deep. it seems very small

fergal.b

Here are some ways you can do it.
With this one use a bit of cardboard to get the curve of the bow then mark it out on a board and screw some blocks along the line you can cover this in cling film to stop your part from sticking to it. Next glue up your strips I like to coat them and let it soak in and while its still tacky coat again and clamp in place.






Another way is to use the cardboard to mark out a pice of 1" ply and drill some holes to take your clamps.



If you are having trouble bending them you can use one of these, I can't remember what it's called but you can find them in most houses, I think girls use them to flatten their hair or something

whacker1982

oh so many questions here for you now,
ill go with the first idea the strips seems simple to do.
where do you get the strips from?
are they laminated?
are they hardwood or soft wood?
when you were using that foreign object that i have no idea what they are called, did you soak the timber first to bend or just slap on the heat?

also ive been thinking about the keel how important is it for it to be made of hardwood? i was gonna use white oak, but for love nor money i cant get into limerick on time to pick some up due to work. would an normal piece of 2x4 timber from the local hardware store be ok?
ive seen on done deal alot of new moulded boats for sale where there was no timber put into the keel or the stem, it was just left hollow?

thanks fergal for all this, its very much appreciated. i hope im not been too much of a burdon on you here.

fergal.b

1) I cut my strips from full planks of iroko or mahogany, I have seen 2" strips of hardwood in woodies in the molding section that might be worth a look you could also get away with strips of marine ply.

2) There is a steam button on the ting that I think is used for removing black heads it also works to soften the wood.

3) If you can't get hardwood you might get away with pressure treated timber used for decking or again marine ply as long as it's coated in epoxy.

4) I don't know the design of your mold or how strong your keel is but the timber acts like a shocker absorber to stop the fiberglass giving way if you hit a rock, it is also used to stiffen the structure of the boat often in boats without wood in the keel you will find a stainless steal strip on the outside to protect it along with very thick fiberglass.Also in the stem you may need a fixing point for a bow eye,seat or again for structural support.

5) Ask all the questions you like, I'm not a professional at this I have just made a lot of mistakes and learned a bit from them I also have a bit of a sickness when it comes to boats :pac:




.

breghall

great thread whacker , v informative from both you and fergal, and I do believe the piece of equipment is called a hairdryer ...... i am open to correction on this as I am not fully sure... looks like a hoover but as far as I know the lead is not long enough so therefore it's a hairdryer.....

good work Whacker , keep it up it's a good read.

whacker1982

cheers breghall, im here till the end.

whacker1982

finally i got my iroko, its 1x9" x 15'
it cost me a small fortune. but it looks nice.:)

fergal.b

Ooooo nice:) your lucky I had to buy 20 of them :eek: There two things you have to look out for with iroko one is the sawdust when cutting and sanding can irritate the skin and eyes so wear protection and if you can do it in a well ventilated area.The other is it can change colour when its sanded and look yellowish but will go dark again after a day or two in daylight.

whacker1982

cheers fergal, went at it today, and after setting up all the gear and straight edges ready, i found that my skill saw blade is well passed throwing it in over a ditch, so next week now before i can get my hands on another,

would i need to wait for it to go back to its normal colour after sanding before glassing it in?

fergal.b

Only if you want it dark for decoration if it's not visible it won't make any difference. It might even darken under the epoxy as it has very little UV protection.

whacker1982

do you think i sould cover the keel in epoxy as well??

fergal.b

I think so to make it watertight, if the keel ever got holed on the outside the water still won't enter the boat or any water thats in the boat won't be left sitting on the timber. You might have to leave it a bit short or taper it at the stern if your fitting a bung plug so here I would put in extra fiberglass to thicken the keel and make it stronger. I don't know the design of your hull so I'm only guessing here :eek: maybe someone with more experience in lake boats will come in with other ideas.:)

whacker1982

excellent logic, cheers fergal, i wont be putting in a bung hole so the keel will run right to the transom, but the keel will need more fiberglass your right and well spotted. i forgot that it only got three layers of glass, as the last two will run over the keel and stem. so thats gonna give me something to do while im waiting on my skill saw blade.

whacker1982

ok since im waiting on a blade for my saw might as well start something else,
so i popped all the clamps off the blocks and transom and all was well.
plenty of fiberglass made the blocks rock solid.
said i would put the final two layers of 450gsm chopped strand in. worked a treat and did it in no time getting the hang of this im thinking!



popped it out in the sun today turning it every half hour to let the sun get to all the places that was still wet. i could not believe how fast it took to cure with the sun. proberly one hour where ever the sun was shining on the boat. this saves some time again. compared to 3 to 4 days curing in a shed with a heater blowing. the magic is in the sun.

ok since it dried in no time at all, i decided the time was now to pop it out of the mould. got out the rubber hammer and gave it alot of bangs proberly in every inch of the mould could hear lots of noise between the mould and boat cracking and all sorts of giving out. but im boss and its coming out.
turned it right way up again and gave it a pull up alot of suction there but it was free. this was it now lifted it up and away from the mould and sat it down on the grass, and turned her hull to the sky. the rest is history.







i cant put into words how happy i am with the turn out of the hull. it works it achually works. long time coming ha ha, :D:D

fergal.b

:D

Jack_regan

Wow it looks fantastic, no wonder you're pleased, brilliant work! It's great to see it out of the mould. I suppose all the earlier preparation work has paid off for you.

popped it out in the sun today turning it every half hour to let the sun get to all the places that was still wet. i could not believe how fast it took to cure with the sun. probably one hour where ever the sun was shining on the boat. this saves some time again. compared to 3 to 4 days curing in a shed with a heater blowing. the magic is in the sun.

I'm surprised with your drying times in the shed, especially with a heater. Were you definitely using the correct amount of catalyst. I mean I'm only new to this myself so I'm no expert but any of the fibreglass repairs I've been doing on my boat have been fully cured within a couple of hours. I think you're supposed to add 2% catalyst to the resin. You can definitely vary the curing times by adding extra catalyst. Anyway I'm sure somebody with more experience will be able to advise you better.

Well done and looking forward to seeing the continued progress.

whacker1982

cheers fergal, jack regan.
yea took forever to cure, was adding the 2% cat for every liter, not a drop more. baffled myself as why it took so long????

Jack_regan

All I can suggest is that you add a bit more catalyst to the mix if you want it to cure faster. I ordered extra catalyst when I placed my order for materials, because I didn't want to be running out. Thinking back now I probably wasn't using the catalyst too sparingly, but you're working over a bigger area than me so you'd want to be careful not to add too much extra. I think you could safely double up on the catalyst to 4% if it is taking 3 or 4 days to cure in the shed at the moment with the 2% mix. Maybe see if anyone else has advice on the subject before going ahead and increasing the catalyst.

fergal.b

I'm not sure about the hardener you are using but you can get different speeds, I use west systems 205 for quick setting and 206/207 for slow. Thicker resin will also set quicker then when its spread out thin also mixing is very important if it's not mixed enough you can get parts that will take longer or not set at all.
The epoxy heats up as it sets through chemical reaction and the sunlight might be helping this along.

whacker1982

think if too much is added its cures to fast causing the structure to weaken and too little the same, it says on the bottle max cat to use 2% per liter.
but it might balence out if 4% was added because it takes so long to cure.
any advice people?