6 years jail for garlic scam

Capt'n Midnight

Hogzy wrote: »

If we didnt have a deterent for tax evasion then we would be in the same financial position as Greece.

unless you have been living under a rock you may have noticed the tribunals that have been a constant feature of Irish life since 1990

or the tax anmesties

or the whole planning thing , Redmond & co. , Kinseally, Lawlor

or how many Accounts had floods that destroyed records,

or the fires in Goodmans factory or the fire in what's his name a few daye before he headed away for a job in europe

we have a culture of tax evasion and people getting away with it , and apart from the little guys who got caught following bankers advice as far as I can tell no one has had to do more than hand back the money that it was proven they owed.

We had one TD who was asked about a dodgy payment of £30,000 (the price of a house at the time) and started to explain a different payment of the same amount.


There are numerous examples of people flouting tax laws and receiving less punishment or financial cost than if they had taken the money as an overdraft from their bank account.

Raiser

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1207/1224308683781.html

- This is the first case google returns on searching for "Judge Martin Nolan", a 5 year suspended sentence for some piece of filth who drank 8 pints and then drove the wrong way up a dual carriageway killing some poor man in front of his Fiancée.

In my opinion all this idiots cases should be retried as he is obviously not fit for duty.......

mconigol

Bigcheeze wrote: »

It achieves a deterrent against fraud, tax evasion and corruption. If you defraud the IRS in the US or Inland Revenue in the UK, you'll do time.

Too many people in this country think that tax evasion isn't really a crime and if you get caught all you have to days is pay back the money with interest.

Also how many of his legitimate competitors did he put out of business because they couldn't compete with his prices.

Competitors out of business? Get real. There is no mention of rivals being put out of business due to the price of his garlic.

A deterrent against fraud would have been a brief jail sentence (maybe) and a massive fine. And no this won't be a deterrent against fraud, it will mean fraudsters will know to cover their tracks better in future.

My question still stands, what will this man spending 6 years of his life in prison achieve for society? The answer? Absolutely ****ing nothing.

He's obviously guilty of a crime but the sentence is wrong. Something which this judge seems to do on a frequent basis.

mikom

Raiser wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1207/1224308683781.html

- This is the first case google returns on searching for "Judge Martin Nolan", a 5 year suspended sentence for some piece of filth who drank 8 pints and then drove the wrong way up a dual carriageway killing some poor man in front of his Fiancée.

In my opinion all this idiots cases should be retried as he is obviously not fit for duty.......

Another doozie reported here on boards...... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056333696

A MAN who bit his 24-week-old baby on the face and shook it until it became "lifeless" has escaped a jail term at Dublin Circuit Criminal Court.

Judge Martin Nolan said it was an "irrational reaction" and it was "fortunate the child made a full recovery" before handing down a four-year suspended sentence.

From that thread......

Morlar wrote: »

Judge Martin Nolan - there is a name to watch out for.

You had him pegged well back in July 2011.

Bigcheeze

mconigol wrote: »

Competitors out of business? Get real. There is no mention of rivals being put out of business due to the price of his garlic.

So what if there's no mention of it? Are you really so naieve ? If he's avoiding 200% tax it should be pretty obvious that he can undercut any legitimate competition. His business grew to be the biggest importer in the country. How did he get there ? How many people couldn't possibly compete with him.

mconigol wrote: »

A deterrent against fraud would have been a brief jail sentence (maybe) and a massive fine. And no this won't be a deterrent against fraud, it will mean fraudsters will know to cover their tracks better in future.

You and the other naieve people on this thread can believe that. What white collar criminals fear more than anything is prison. When people stop fearing justice for fraud, it takes over society, like in Greece, Italy and much of Africa and Asia.

People like you on this thread bang on about bankers but when it comes down to it you're just like all the other thick Fianna Fail types who don't consider tax evasion as serious crime. You think of it as just "chancing your arm". So many clowns on this thread are portraying this guy as a victim. It's no different than burglary or shoplifting.

mconigol wrote: »

My question still stands, what will this man spending 6 years of his life in prison achieve for society? The answer? Absolutely ****ing nothing.

Just about everyone else involved in similar scams will think long and hard about it from now on. This case will stop and prevent a lot of tax fraud. This country would be a much better place if everyone knew that every 250k of tax fraud meant a year in the slammer.

Of course being a banana republic, the sentence will be suspended on appeal.

SEPT 23 1989

Absolute Banana Republic

6 fcuking years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where is Seanie AN THE REST now????

WHO DESTROYED MY COUNTRY?????????

1.1 million owed which they agreed to pay back

and its JAIL

32 BILLION OWED AND THEY PLAY GOLF

benway

I like that the apologists seem more keen to talk about other cases that the judge has presided over, rather the specifics of what this scumbag gombeen got up to.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Where is Seanie AN THE REST now????

This guy is very much the same as Seanie and the rest, just another cute hoor. Hopefully we'll see these guys getting similar treatment before too long - may he be the first of many.

mconigol

Bigcheeze wrote: »

So what if there's no mention of it? Are you really so naieve ? If he's avoiding 200% tax it should be pretty obvious that he can undercut any legitimate competition. His business grew to be the biggest importer in the country. How did he get there ? How many people couldn't possibly compete with him.



You and the other naieve people on this thread can believe that. What white collar criminals fear more than anything is prison. When people stop fearing justice for fraud, it takes over society, like in Greece, Italy and much of Africa and Asia.

People like you on this thread bang on about bankers but when it comes down to it you're just like all the other thick Fianna Fail types who don't consider tax evasion as serious crime. You think of it as just "chancing your arm". So many clowns on this thread are portraying this guy as a victim. It's no different than burglary or shoplifting.



Just about everyone else involved in similar scams will think long and hard about it from now on. This case will stop and prevent a lot of tax fraud. This country would be a much better place if everyone knew that every 250k of tax fraud meant a year in the slammer.

Of course being a banana republic, the sentence will be suspended on appeal.

I'm not naive.

It was claimed that the sentence was justifiable based on the reasoning that he could have put other people out of business. There is nothing to back that reasoning up and it is therefore not a valid argument.

Also, I haven't seen anybody quote the price of his garlic compared to his competitors so it isn't even known if it was giving him an advantage over his rivals. Anyway that is a trivial point.

It's pure rubbish people here claiming this will be a deterrent while in the same breath saying that the case should be taken solely on it's merits and comparisons with bankers etc...are irrelevant.

This same logic can apply the opposite way where I can say that he should be sentenced based on the loss to the state and nothing else. The sentence shouldn't add extra punishment simply to create a deterrent for other, as yet unknown, fraudsters. That is ridiculous and makes the case/sentencing politically motivated.

Run_to_da_hills

Not normally a great fan of a Murdock publication but I thought the Editors comments were good in todays Sun.

Irish Sun wrote: »

Systematically defrauding the taxpayer of 1.6 million is not a minor offense.

however there ewas shock yesterday when business man Paul Begley recieved the maximum 6 year sentense for not paying tax on his garlic imports, begley who runs a viable veg business has admitted his crimeand repaid €600,000 of the amount now he is heading for jail, while the bankers who ruined the country are still walking around free Many rapists and violent offenders have received lower terms Is it any wonder people feel it is impossible to get justice in this country?



]

mikemac1

Next time some crook gets off free and the Revenue writes off the debt and AH gets outraged as AH generally does, someone should link back to this thread and all the apologists

Edit, this crook got off lightly anyway with six years

Do you remember the thread we had last year and twelve years for welfare fraud

A man has been jailed for 12 years for an “audacious and breath-taking” social welfare fraud.

63-year-old Paul Murray of no fixed abode claimed €248,000 under nine different names while he was living in Thailand.

He returned to Ireland every 3 months to claim jobseeker’s allowance.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2011/news/man-jailed-for-12-years-for-welfare-fraud/

Double the time but under one sixth of the money

mconigol

mikemac1 wrote: »

Next time some crook gets off free and the Revenue writes off the debt and AH gets outraged as AH generally does, someone should link back to this thread and all the apologists

I don't think there are many people here disputing the crime. It's the excessive sentence.

mikom

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Not normally a great fan of a Murdock publication but I thought the Editors comments were good in todays Sun.

Originally Posted by Irish Sun

Systematically defrauding the taxpayer of 1.6 million is not a minor offense.

however there ewas shock yesterday when business man Paul Begley recieved the maximum 6 year sentense for not paying tax on his garlic imports, begley who runs a viable veg business has admitted his crimeand repaid €600,000 of the amount now he is heading for jail, while the bankers who ruined the country are still walking around free Many rapists and violent offenders have received lower terms Is it any wonder people feel it is impossible to get justice in this country?

Badly needs a subeditor that rag.

NJS007

CB19Kevo wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0309/begleyp.html

''The head of Ireland's largest fruit and vegetable producers has been jailed for six years for a €1.6m scam involving the importation of garlic.
Paul Begley, 46, avoided paying customs duty on over 1,000 tonnes of garlic from China by having them labelled as apples.
Dublin Circuit Criminal Court heard the import duty on garlic is "inexplicably" high and can be up to 232%.
In contrast, onions have an import duty of 9%.
The maximum sentence for the offence is five years in prison or a fine of three times the value of the goods.
Judge Martin Nolan imposed the maximum term on one count and one year on another count.''

Is this a bit excessive when you would get a lesser sentence for a serious assault ?

4 years for manslaughter.... 6 years for defrauding duty on imports... Thats the Irish Judicial system for you!!!

cock robin

booboo88 wrote: »

To be honest I just dont see the point in putting him in prison, its only the tax payer who has to foot the bill for him being there, and yes, he's a scam artist, but hes going to pay it back is he not?
As a deterrent fine him, but don't bloody imprison him.

You just don't get it. Fining someone of his considerable wealth will never act as deterrent that is why the judge imposed a custodial sentence.

SEPT 23 1989

I fcuking despair

open your fcuking eyes

1.1 million

32 billion

Who Gets Jail?????

benway

All of them, hopefully.

There's no justification for giving someone a free pass for a massive fraud, just because there are bigger frauds out there that haven't been prosecuted as yet.

cock robin

thms.kelly wrote: »

this is unjust 6 years for tax evasion thats crazy,
hed get less for importing drugs
a big fine would be more just, how much is it going to cost the taxpayer to keep him in prison for 6 years?
as far as i read he was willing to pay any fine to avoid prison.surely we could do with the money from a big fine, to help the countries finances,
how many dangerous criminals will be released early to make room for people like this, i cant get my head around this,
how many bankers have served even one day in prison for so many billion euro?

Sure every fcuking prisoner in every prison in the country would (if they were as wealthy as Mr Begley) pay to avoid a custodial sentence. Or are you suggesting that those of considerable wealth can buy their own judicial system and the rest of us can be locked up when we transgress. As for the country needing the money, the country would rather Mr Begley and his kind just paid their legitamate taxes as they as company directors are obliged to do. Jesus wept some of the people defending this dude are amazing. Why oh why are people banging on about bankers who to date have not been charged with anything, when they are we can open up that debate with regard to whatever sentence they recieve. This case dates back to 2007 and obviously Mr Begley came clean when he realised that he had no option but to do so. E-mails on his computer proved that he even encouraged his garlic supplier to break the law in their own country (China) by altering legal export documents so he could satisfy his greed. Make no mistake wether or not he is now in prison and is unable to repay at present, they will and should pursue him for any outstanding monies are owed to the state. Now try and get your head around that.

Pal

realies wrote: »

He is no different to the above named men,Just another greedy ****er who while having a good business and making good profits jeopardises everything for robbing more money for himself.

Sadly when I post on boards, I end up engaged with people like you.
Heartless. Missing the point.
Where's your compassion ?

The man is guilty. He admits it.
The punsihment is wrong

goat2

why in the name of god is garlic coming with such a duty on it in the first place, this man employs people and has been giving heftily each year to the tax, why not just get what they could from him, and let him get on with the job of keeping people at work, what a waste putting him in jail, there are many who should be in jail, but not him

Sunnyisland

Pal wrote: »

Sadly when I post on boards, I end up engaged with people like you.
Heartless. Missing the point.
Where's your compassion ?

The man is guilty. He admits it.
The punishment is wrong

The only point I am missing is how people here can defend someone caught in 1.6m scam,Yes a scam a fraud of the state of more than a million euro,Yet the same people go on complaining about corrupt developers/bankers/politicians,And you cant see the link,For to long we have put with this carry on and did and said nothing,hopefully its changing now and more will follow him.
And if you don't want to engage with people like me put them on Ignore.

blatantrereg

Thread keeps going in circles.
The longer it gets, the less likely people are to read it before posting - and the more likely they are to repeat the same things... over and over again.
Which provoke the same counter arguments. The same conversation.
Over and over again.
Forever and ever.
amen.

JonathanAnon

This is probably the most ridiculous sentence I've ever heard of.. If the Government want to throw the book at him, they should punish him in his pocket.... take part of the business, or some of the business assets into control of the State...

The guy is no danger to anybody and should not be behind bars... But then of course this is the State that sees fit to let Larry Murphy back out on the streets, so they obviously dont know much about how to run a justice system properly..

cock robin

Pal wrote: »

Sadly when I post on boards, I end up engaged with people like you.
Heartless. Missing the point.
Where's your compassion ?

The man is guilty. He admits it.
The punsihment is wrong

Just out of curiosity, what punishment would you recommend ? The man pleaded guilty after the case was put to him and he realised he could not offer a reasonable defence. Your 100% about your post being sad it is.

benway

goat2 wrote: »

why in the name of god is garlic coming with such a duty on it in the first place, this man employs people and has been giving heftily each year to the tax, why not just get what they could from him, and let him get on with the job of keeping people at work, what a waste putting him in jail, there are many who should be in jail, but not him

His company is still running.

Honestly, this is the worst class of forelock tugging, seems that we haven't come on too far from ascendency times.

So, a guy can rob the state, by extension all of us, of €1.6m, but because he's a respectable squire of the land, he doesn't belong in jail. No, that's for "scumbags" in trackie bottoms.

I mean, it's not like corporate corruption and cute hoorism have destroyed this country or anything.

If 12 years is the going rate for a €250k dole fraud, then 6 years for €1.6m is more than fair.

wendell borton

Your out there somewhere beer garlic baron and i'll find you!

blatantrereg

Almost half of people in China are thought to be infested with Ascaris roundworms.
You get them by eating vegetables or fruit that has been contaminated with their eggs.
Do you know how many Irish grown vegetables have those eggs? - zilch.

zenno

My heart goes out to himself and his family because this is just insane. murderers have got less sentence than this. I have a feeling his sentence will be lowered because if it is not there will be outcry over this. that judge needs to send his own mental health report to government because the judge is not living in the real world and is not fit to be a judge. someone needs to look into this.

and yeah, not one banker jailed. this makes me sick.

benway

zenno wrote: »

murderers have got less sentence than this.

No, they haven't. A life sentence is mandatory for murder.

matamoros1965

A quiet news day gets you number 2 spot on the nine o' clock news, a statement read out by the guy's brother on what an injustice has been done to the poor man. Friends in high places, maybe no but certainly a P.R. company may have been taken on. It's terrible Joe.

zenno

benway wrote: »

No, they haven't. A life sentence is mandatory for murder.

Murder changed to manslaughter. wake up will you.

One law for the rich and one nasty law for the less well off. someone, one of these days will get a few guns and take out some of them bankers and politicians and judges, it's only a matter of time.