6 years jail for garlic scam

joseph brand

later12 wrote: »

Garlic may be petty, but in fairness a €1.6 million tax evasion bill is not.

Note that the tax in question is not a personal cost of doing business in the strict sense. These distributers are merely tax collectors for the government, in a similar way to Tesco and Dunnes acting as tax collectors for Vat.

The cost of import duty is passed on to merchants and thereafter, effectively, to the consumer as a matter of course. This man simply decided, for whatever reasons, that he wasn't going to pay the state.

He deserves punishment in his own right. The magnitude of his guilt is not to be determined relative to other crimes irrelevant to this case.

If other crimes are penalised in a way that is perceived to be disproportionately insufficient, that's an issue for those cases. And if the penalty in this case is perceived to be too onerous, then that is a matter for the court taking this and similar cases into account.

But the guilt or otherwise of the likes of Sean FitzPatrick or Bertie Ahern or David Drumm do not detract from the guilt of this individual for tax evasion.

I think that if these scumbags and their cronies, mentioned above, were in prison already, this tax evasion case might not seem so outrageous. Although, 6 years seems a bit excessive since:

The maximum sentence for the offence is five years in prison

It's who you know!

Sunnyisland

joseph brand wrote: »

I think that if these scumbags and their cronies, mentioned above, were in prison already, this tax evasion case might not seem so outrageous. Although, 6 years seems a bit excessive since: The maximum sentence for the offence is five years in prison



It's who you know!

Imposing the maximum jail sentence of five years on one charge of tax evasion and a further year on a second count, Anyway he be treated as not on the high risk category and would think he be sent to one of the open prisons around the country,where he might be allowed to have his own plot of land and maybe grow garlic

ArmaniJeanss

realies wrote: »

Anyway he be treated as not on the high risk category and would think he be sent to one of the open prisons around the country,where he might be allowed to have his own plot of land and maybe grow garlic

Cloverhill obviously.

Tayla

mikemac1 wrote: »

Jail the bankers screamed multiple threads on boards for the least few years

And a tax cheat gets jailed and now there are calls that the judge was too harsh?
And that jail is only for people who are a danger to others?

And another few posts that he should not be in jail but instead should be trading to pay off the debt.
Yet property developers asked for salaries to run their companies and portfolios now taken over by NAMA and there was posts they should be on minimum welfare and homeless until the losses were recovered

Well a lot of you changed your tune
The judge jailed a criminal, but it seems he was too harsh on the poor lamb

My problem is with this particular judge who thinks this guy deserves 6 years but paedophiles, mothers who neglect their children and illegal immigrant traffifckers deserve less.

As much as I hope that the bankers and politicians go to jail, I would let them away with it if it meant that paedophiles got long sentences so that their victims would get some justice and these dangerous people were off the streets.

I think bankers and politicians are a completely different group to the rest of us, they were in a massive position of power and trust, this guys tax evasion isn't in the same bracket. The bankers and politicians are traitors, this guy committed tax evasion.

mikom

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Cloverhill obviously.

Garlic Cloverhill?

mikemac1

Tayla wrote: »

My problem is with this particular judge who thinks this guy deserves 6 years but paedophiles, mothers who neglect their children and illegal immigrant traffifckers deserve less.

It's a single case, you judge the case on its own

Sure turn around your post, can't send me to jail for stealing a car, sure the criminals stealing millions got off free, this car is worth a few thousand
Sounds ridiculous but it's pulling in other random cases and then deciding if the sentance is fair or not. Which is what you have done

Tayla

mikemac1 wrote: »

It's a single case, you judge the case on its own

Sure turn around your post, can't send me to jail for stealing a car, sure the bankers got off free
Sounds ridiculous but it's pulling in other random cases and the deciding if the sentance is fair or not. Which is what you have done

I looked at this judges record last night and I think in his previous cases the sentences have been so blatantly unfair that I think they have to be considered when discussing this case. I don't feel safe with a judge like that judging cases.

Carter P Fly

Ill say it before and Ill say it again, The current, out of touch, judiciary should all be beheaded and a new system where a judge can only sit for 7 years total be introduced.

Sentencing based on precedent should have a statute of limitations of 7 years also.

thms.kelly

this is unjust 6 years for tax evasion thats crazy,
hed get less for importing drugs
a big fine would be more just, how much is it going to cost the taxpayer to keep him in prison for 6 years?
as far as i read he was willing to pay any fine to avoid prison.surely we could do with the money from a big fine, to help the countries finances,
how many dangerous criminals will be released early to make room for people like this, i cant get my head around this,
how many bankers have served even one day in prison for so many billion euro?

Sunnyisland

Tayla wrote: »

My problem is with this particular judge who thinks this guy deserves 6 years but paedophiles, mothers who neglect their children and illegal immigrant traffickers deserve less.

As much as I hope that the bankers and politicians go to jail, I would let them away with it if it meant that paedophiles got long sentences so that their victims would get some justice and these dangerous people were off the streets.

I think bankers and politicians are a completely different group to the rest of us, they were in a massive position of power and trust, this guys tax evasion isn't in the same bracket. The bankers and politicians are traitors, this guy committed tax evasion.

If it was a different judge who passed the sentence would you have a problem with the jail term ?

What do you mean you would let them get away with it, do you think white collar crime is victimless,its only tax evasion sure that's all right then.

The bankers & politicians are only some of the people who robbed this country,This person & his ilk is as much a traitor as them.There has always been a one law for them and another rule for us and its about time it was changed and then maybe we might see some respect given back to the country.

gizmo555

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Cloverhill obviously.

Or Wheatfield?

benway

patrickjquinn wrote: »

Well this case is exceptional because he stood up and took it like a man, co-operated with the courts and revenue and was made an example of for it, all this is teaching people is that the best way to avoid sentencing is to be cute and cover your tracks, which is totally the wrong message.

He fell into a very human trap, he owned up for his mal-judgement. I think that is example enough don't you?

Greed? Pure greed? So that's alright then, yeah? If I were to make that excuse for any of the "scumbags" who are trotted out in the papers every other day of the week, people would call me a looney left apologist. So why do you think this excuse should be acceptable for a white collar criminal.

No, you'll need to do much better than that.

Tayla wrote: »

I looked at this judges record last night and I think in his previous cases the sentences have been so blatantly unfair that I think they have to be considered when discussing this case. I don't feel safe with a judge like that judging cases.

booboo88 wrote: »

To be honest I just dont see the point in putting him in prison, its only the tax payer who has to foot the bill for him being there, and yes, he's a scam artist, but hes going to pay it back is he not?
As a deterrent fine him, but don't bloody imprison him.

The Central Criminal Court has made it clear that white collar criminals should expect jail time in the future, as a deterrent to the degree of corruption and cute hoorism that's ruined this country. There are clear criteria in sentencing these cases, as I see it:

i) the gravity of the offences;
ii) the circumstances in which these offences were carried out;
iii) the nature of the offences;
iv) the continuing duration of their commission;
v) the role played by the accused in them;
vi) The accused's personal circumstances;
vii) the circumstances of the company;
viii) any aggravating or mitigating factor; and
ix) the principles of proportionality and totality.

Different criteria apply to different offences. Let me guess, tax evasion isn't "actual crime", though? Like lots of people here seem to think?

If a bunch of "scumbags" from Blanchardstown or Southill had, say, robbed a dole office or government security van containing €1.6m, or had run a scrap metal scam, defrauding the State out of the same amount, I don't think many of ye would bat an eyelid at this sentence.

Nicky Kelly got 12 years for his part in the Sallins train robbery, that's a much better reference point, from where I see it.

Fck this guy. Let him rot. Fair play to the judge for having the courage to impose a harsh sentence on him - maybe this will make some of the other gombeens out there sit up and take notice.

Sunnyisland

benway wrote: »

Greed? Pure greed? So that's alright then, yeah? If I were to make that excuse for any of the "scumbags" who are trotted out in the papers every other day of the week, people would call me a looney left apologist. So why do you think this excuse should be acceptable for a white collar criminal.

No, you'll need to do much better than that.





The Central Criminal Court has made it clear that white collar criminals should expect jail time in the future, as a deterrent to the degree of corruption and cute hoorism that's ruined this country. There are clear criteria in sentencing these cases, as I see it:

i) the gravity of the offences;
ii) the circumstances in which these offences were carried out;
iii) the nature of the offences;
iv) the continuing duration of their commission;
v) the role played by the accused in them;
vi) The accused's personal circumstances;
vii) the circumstances of the company;
viii) any aggravating or mitigating factor; and
ix) the principles of proportionality and totality.

Different criteria apply to different offences. Let me guess, tax evasion isn't "actual crime", though? Like lots of people here seem to think?

If a bunch of "scumbags" from Blanchardstown or Southill had, say, robbed a dole office or government security van containing €1.6m, or had run a scrap metal scam, defrauding the State out of the same amount, I don't think many of ye would bat an eyelid at this sentence.

Nicky Kelly got 12 years for his part in the Sallins train robbery, that's a much better reference point, from where I see it.

Fck this guy. Let him rot. Fair play to the judge for having the courage to impose a harsh sentence on him - maybe this will make some of the other gombeens out there sit up and take notice.

A bit of topic, and he was an innocent man. Kelly was eventually released on "humanitarian grounds". He received a presidential pardon in 1992, along with over £1 million as compensation following campaigns by Amnesty and the ICCL.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=nicky%20kelly&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FNicky_Kelly&ei=8XdbT_Abh8yEB-3D2KgE&usg=AFQjCNEk0cxt4zkj4G11PFSDXGOuRCuzDw

benway

Yeah, I'm aware of that alright, he was just the first person who came to mind when I was thinking of sentencing for a robbery on a similar scale to what our daycent oul' gombeen here committed.

gizmo555

patrickjquinn wrote: »

Well this case is exceptional because he stood up and took it like a man, co-operated with the courts and revenue and was made an example of for it, all this is teaching people is that the best way to avoid sentencing is to be cute and cover your tracks, which is totally the wrong message.

He fell into a very human trap, he owned up for his mal-judgement. I think that is example enough don't you?

Read the report on the court case.

Revenue Officer Denis Twohig said the scam was uncovered on October 9, 2007 when customs officers at Dublin Port investigated a container that was supposed to contain 18 tonnes of apples and two tonnes of garlic. When they looked inside they found 21 tonnes of garlic and no apples.

Following the find, Revenue officers began an investigation into previous imports by the company.

During a search of the headquarters, officers seized a series of emails between Begley and his garlic supplier in China which were exchanged over the course of four years.

The emails told the supplier to falsify the import documents to describe the shipments as apples rather than garlic.

He admitted it because he couldn't deny it - Revenue and Customs had caught him red handed . . .

Pal

This sentence is disgraceful.

Someone should put the judge in jail along with Seanie, Drumm and the scumbags who are going around murdering at will every week !

Retirement is not a whole lot of years away for me. I'll be packing my bags when the day comes.

Sunnyisland

Pal wrote: »

This sentence is disgraceful.

Someone should put the judge in jail along with Seanie, Drumm and the scumbags who are going around murdering at will every week !

Retirement is not a whole lot of years away for me. I'll be packing my bags when the day comes.

He is no different to the above named men,Just another greedy ****er who while having a good business and making good profits jeopardises everything for robbing more money for himself.

barney4001

Hope that judge is dealing with the bankers, property speculators and builders who left the mortgage holders high and dry

Thirdfox

I find it heartening that white collar crime is being taken seriously in this country.

When people do serious time for petty drugs offences (often as the patsy while the drug lords are tucked away safe) seeing serious tax evasion crimes being punished by jail time rather than a slap on the wrist fine is brilliant.

I'm a solicitor in training and this is something I've wanted for years. It always seemed that the poor get disproportionately punished for crimes. Though on the other hand we also have serial offenders escaping any punishment too.

As for the bankers - as with any criminal prosecution one needs to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a crime was committed. You wouldn't want to be hasty and rush a trial, just for it to fail. Plus, we don't actually know for certain a crime was committed by those banking heads.

In essence - one step at a time - taking white collar crime seriously certainly is a step in the right direction.

booboo88

Cicero wrote: »

We're paying nearly 100k a year, to house a man who evaded paying a 1.5 mil tax bill...and we are preventing him from paying off any more of that tax bill by keeping him in jail....that doesn't make sense at all...a seriously wrong decision by the courts IMO ...I'm not for this scape - goating... let's teach all tax evaders a lesson ...sentencing crap....stick with appropriate sentences or change the law....but 6 years is ludicrous for this particular case...

my sentiments exactly

Hogzy

It is bit ridiculous that a tax evader gets the same penalty as someone who punched someone to death but...

If we didnt have a deterent for tax evasion then we would be in the same financial position as Greece.

dermo88

Frankly speaking, I wish it was like proper developing countries. Either bribe the customs officer or threaten them and their families. When will these commies cop in, lower taxes mean honest taxpayers. As for the judge........it's clearly a politically motivated sentence to placate short arsed sperm stains like sarcozy.

charlemont

Another lesson for those with their heads in the sand, Its all about the money !!!

Sunnyisland

dermo88 wrote: »

Frankly speaking, I wish it was like proper developing countries. Either bribe the customs officer or threaten them and their families. When will these commies cop in, lower taxes mean honest taxpayers. As for the judge........it's clearly a politically motivated sentence to placate short arsed sperm stains like sarcozy.

Really, must have missed the politcal part :rolleyes: I thought he was jailed for a €1.6m scam involving the importation of garlic.

steve9859

barney4001 wrote: »

Hope that judge is dealing with the bankers, property speculators and builders who left the mortgage holders high and dry

what specific law did they break that the judge can jail them on?

edit: not that I wouldn't like to see some of them get their comeuppance by the way.....I was just wondering if you could let me know on what basis they could be jailed, in contrast to the garlic-man who knowingly broke a specific law

later12

dermo88 wrote: »

it's clearly a politically motivated sentence to placate short arsed sperm stains like sarcozy.

Yes, I'm sure Sarko and Carla Bruni cracked open a bottle of Moet & Chandon when they heard the news bulletin on French radio....

dermo88

The Judge would find some strychnine in his next batch of chicken chow mein. No more person, no more judge, no more problem.

And, as for the Gardai, they'd be hopping mad. Translator of Mandarin, sorry, does'nt work. Lets try Cantonese.....sorry, does'nt work either. Hainanese, Hakka, Hokkien, Shanghai dialect, Dalian sub dialect.....

Hire in specialist from London, 500 Euro per hour.

Hmm......maybe just maybe thats why it actually cost so much. The stupid white boy did'nt even bother using google translate to put the communication into another form. I would. The customs would'nt have a clue.

"Ah sure, its just some nonsense in chinese like....."

In which case, finding out.....fair play in a way, but still.

LOWER TAXES MEAN HONEST TAXPAYERS. For the judge to make an assertion that its for the Oireachtais to judge taxes. True....to an extent, but to what limit.



The interrogators would climb the walls.

Starts singing March of the Volunteers. Oh dear, revenge for the Opium wars white guys.....and no apologies.

later12

wat?

Sunnyisland

On a side note I wonder how long will it take for gangland to get into the Importation of other vegetables,Seems some money to be made there,I can see us all not only having cigarettes and green diesel to deal with but the dodgy vegetable man.

steve9859

dermo88 wrote: »

The Judge would find some strychnine in his next batch of chicken chow mein. No more person, no more judge, no more problem.

And, as for the Gardai, they'd be hopping mad. Translator of Mandarin, sorry, does'nt work. Lets try Cantonese.....sorry, does'nt work either. Hainanese, Hakka, Hokkien, Shanghai dialect, Dalian sub dialect.....

Hire in specialist from London, 500 Euro per hour.

Hmm......maybe just maybe thats why it actually cost so much. The stupid white boy did'nt even bother using google translate to put the communication into another form. I would. The customs would'nt have a clue.

"Ah sure, its just some nonsense in chinese like....."

In which case, finding out.....fair play in a way, but still.

LOWER TAXES MEAN HONEST TAXPAYERS. For the judge to make an assertion that its for the Oireachtais to judge taxes. True....to an extent, but to what limit.



The interrogators would climb the walls.

Starts singing March of the Volunteers. Oh dear, revenge for the Opium wars white guys.....and no apologies.

You what, now???