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Che Guevara Statue In Galway

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    #182
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    If you're referring to the quotes i think you are (even though you have yet to produce them) they are always cited by right wing loolas in an attempt to paint Geuvara as a racist. They are always taken out of context without producing the entirety of what he wrote or the situation he was in when he wrote it.
    There are many charges could be arguably put against Che, racism is not one of them.
    If you are trying to portray Che Guevara in a good light, you also need to point out everything he did in his life which some might not approve of. I am all for patriots but I like to put the full story before people.


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    #183
    RiseToTheTop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 956 ✭✭✭RiseToTheTop


    Hande hoche! wrote: »
    No, worth the read?

    Definitely. I've read a couple of his biographies and this one is definitely the best.


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    #184
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    If you are trying to portray Che Guevara in a good light, you also need to point out everything he did in his life which some might not approve of. I am all for patriots but I like to put the full story before people.

    Which is why you've contributed nothing to this discussion except to repeatedly (an ludicrously) claim he was a racist?


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    #185
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Which is why you've contributed nothing to this discussion except to repeatedly (an ludicrously) claim he was a racist?
    No. I put up a view which is backed up by quotes which others have alluded too. Some people are posting positives, some people are posting negatives.


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    #186
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    RichieC wrote: »
    Every politician ever to live fought for their own Agenda. Are you seriously saying Che is alone? US presidents highly respected bombed the **** out of nations for material wealth and geopolitical power.... To this day they still do and are. Rights for all men of all colours, don't make me laugh.

    So you agree he is no different to any number of other hypocritical prats who suited themselves and didn't give a toss about freedom from oppression or the rights of the common man.

    So now the only reason I can see for backing the statue is because of the t-shirts and posters and the icon of Che rather than the man himself. Seems like a piss-poor reason to put up a monument to the man if you ask me. We take the good stuff, we brush all the crap under the carpet and make pretend. Sounds like an Irish solution alright, after all we already have the statue of a Nazi collaborator up in Dublin. Might as well balance it out with another plonker over in the west.


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    #187
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    a little tidbit of fact: if you walk down O'Reilly Street in the heart of havana, you will come across a commemoration plaque on the wall dedicated to Ireland and cuba. It is written in Spanish, Irish and English.

    quite nice - and O'Reilly's Irish bar is just around the corner.


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    #188
    PrincessLola
    Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭PrincessLola


    This p*sses me off becuase liking Che Guevara has become oh-so trendy, comes across as kinda pathetic on Galway's party.

    I don't know much about him, but he seemed like a nasty guy.


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    #189
    galah
    Registered Users Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭galah


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    what is there to struggle with? his grandmother was from Galway. If he was still about he'd be eligible to play for the Irish soccer team for ****'s sake

    you mean his great great grandfather was from here - and it's not Galway CITY he was from either. So, going by that, the correct place for this monstrosity should be Claregalway, and not the prom in Salthill...


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    #190
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    PrincessLola wrote: »
    This p*sses me off becuase liking Che Guevara has become oh-so trendy, comes across as kinda pathetic on Galway's party.

    I don't know much about him, but he seemed like a nasty guy.

    so you don't know much about him, yet you have come to the conclusion that he is a nasty guy? I don't get that. Would you not make an effort to try to find out about him, before you come to a conclusion.

    I think Che G was more "trendy" in the 60's / 70"s to be honest.


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    #191
    dan1895
    Registered Users Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭dan1895


    fishy fishy wrote: »
    a little tidbit of fact: if you walk down O'Reilly Street in the heart of havana, you will come across a commemoration plaque on the wall dedicated to Ireland and cuba. It is written in Spanish, Irish and English.

    quite nice - and O'Reilly's Irish bar is just around the corner.

    Isn't that O'Reilly Cafe which is just named after the street? Nowhere does it allude to being an Irish bar that I could see anyway. Pity I missed the plaque though.

    Back on topic, some people need to read up on this man instead of believing American propaganda.


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    #192
    FLOOPER
    Registered Users Posts: 797 ✭✭✭FLOOPER


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    I'm saying I disagree. I dont believe Hitler or Stalin thought what they were doing was right. In their own particular situations they always ensured that they were at the centre of the movement. THey were it's figureheads. and once they got in power they made continuous efforts to increase their personal power. It seems to me Hitler and Stalin were fighting or themselves and their own egos, not anything they thought was "right." These are not claims that can be made about Geuvara.

    as you say they were indeed lacking in compassion, empathy and sanity, but once again these are not things that can be said of Che. A quick read through his diaries shows his inner torment between being a soldier or a doctor.

    Godwin's Law states that "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." Therefore it seems to apply perfectly in this situation, you quite clearly attempted to draw a comparison between Geuvara and Hitler

    Firtsly, we'll agree to disagree about if they thought it was a cause or not.

    Secondly, I wasn't comparing the men in question at all. I know full well that there's a lot that seperates them although not everything (like facial hair - So that's Godwin Law made obselete) - I don't think Godwin's Law is really meant to be taken seriously and especially when we are talking about regimes involved in kangaroo court executions.

    I was comparing this asssesment of the man
    at least he had the courage and conviction to fight for what he believed to be right.
    to other leaders and saying that it would be a bad idea to promote an idea of a statue on that criteria alone. But saying, that regardless of what they did, the fact that they had a vision and conviction to fight for it, is justification for praise. That's the only comparison I was making with people like Stalin, Hitler and Polpot.

    Admitedly, it's not abundantly clear in my original statement.


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    #193
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    The monument is horrendus looking. Are they going to have a statue of that tennis player scratching her arse, and a sculpture made of beer bottles too?


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    #194
    4zn76tysfajdxp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,944 ✭✭✭✭4zn76tysfajdxp


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    If he was still about he'd be eligible to play for the Irish soccer team for ****'s sake

    Bit too old by now though.


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    #195
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    fishy fishy wrote: »
    heh heh, a bit like the americans telling all the other countries that if they did business in cuba, they would be blacklisted by usa, they soon quietened down and realised they couldn't live without other countries, especially their nearest neighbour canada, who constantly deals with cuba. :D:D

    Just think, a Galway city devoid of Floridans :rolleyes:


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    #196
    Cameron Poe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭Cameron Poe


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    No. I put up a view which is backed up by quotes which others have alluded too. Some people are posting positives, some people are posting negatives.

    I know the quote your talking about. Give me a source.

    The only place I have seen it is when it is linked back to boneheads on Stormfront or other nazi sites. Hardly reliable.


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    #197
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    No. I put up a view which is backed up by quotes which others have alluded too. Some people are posting positives, some people are posting negatives.

    Maybe you should have a look then at some of your own heroes, like the great loyalist killers you look up to, great bunch of lads them!


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    #198
    St.Spodo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭St.Spodo


    Píssing off the right in this country and abroad is a fundamentally noble exercise. If it makes Kevin Myers cry, I'd go one step further and put a statue of Trotsky at the gate of Stephen's Green.


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    #199
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    karma_ wrote: »
    Maybe you should have a look then at some of your own heroes, like the great loyalist killers you look up to, great bunch of lads them!
    We are talking about Che Guevara. Not Ulster Loyalists.


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    #200
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    St.Spodo wrote: »
    Píssing off the right in this country and abroad is a fundamentally noble exercise. If it makes Kevin Myers cry, I'd go one step further and put a statue of Trotsky at the gate of Stephen's Green.

    They were going to name a sewage plant in the US after george bush.


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    #201
    Hannibal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭Hannibal


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Amazing. A statue of a racist.
    This has to be one of the most outrageous quotes I've seen from you Keith.

    "Those who kill their own children and discriminate daily against them because of the colour of their skin; those who let the murderers of blacks remain free, protecting them, and furthermore punishing the black population because they demand their legitimate rights as free men—how can those who do this consider themselves guardians of freedom?" Che Guevara

    Ché in 1964 was one of the first people to criticise the apartheid policies in South Africa before the U.N. and he also travelled to the Congo to fight against imperialism yet madly he can somehow be portrayed as a racist by someone who supports the fascist and supremacist orange order.

    Galway have every right to erect a statue of one of it's most famous sons.


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    #202
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    dan1895 wrote: »
    Isn't that O'Reilly Cafe which is just named after the street? Nowhere does it allude to being an Irish bar that I could see anyway. Pity I missed the plaque though.

    Back on topic, some people need to read up on this man instead of believing American propaganda.


    tis a pub alright, they serve fabulous drinks. Once you get on the high stool you can't get off. :D


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    #203
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    old hippy wrote: »
    Just think, a Galway city devoid of Floridans :rolleyes:

    Floridans wouldn't come to the wild west of Ireland, they are afraid of all the rain and dampness there. :p isn't everyone in Florida about 100 though, isn't that the last stop for people who have retired in other states. Don't they all go around in wheelchair type thingys instead of walking? :D


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    #204
    Bobby Baccala
    Registered Users Posts: 7,341 ✭✭✭Bobby Baccala


    The people of florida can suck my left ball, it doesn't affect them they should **** off and mind their own business.


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    #205
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Dotsey wrote: »
    This has to be one of the most outrageous quotes I've seen from you Keith.

    "Those who kill their own children and discriminate daily against them because of the colour of their skin; those who let the murderers of blacks remain free, protecting them, and furthermore punishing the black population because they demand their legitimate rights as free men—how can those who do this consider themselves guardians of freedom?" Che Guevara

    Ché in 1964 was one of the first people to criticise the apartheid policies in South Africa before the U.N. and he also travelled to the Congo to fight against imperialism yet madly he can somehow be portrayed as a racist by someone who supports the fascist and supremacist orange order.

    Galway have every right to erect a statue of one of it's most famous sons.
    You going to post his other quotes? Put the full picture up for people to see. Leave the irrelevant stuff out of the thread.


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    #206
    fishy fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    P4DDY2K11 wrote: »
    The people of florida can suck my left ball, it doesn't affect them they should **** off and mind their own business.


    ah, don't be too hard on them. I think they are just sore because their corrupted ancesters were rounded up and told to get out of cuba. They lost all their brothels, mafia connections and their "playground". wouldn't you be sore if that happened to your granny.

    there is a great scene in The Godfather of them running onto boats, planes, you name it when they heard che was comin to get them. :D


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    #207
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    You going to post his other quotes? Put the full picture up for people to see. Leave the irrelevant stuff out of the thread.

    You're the one who claimed he was a racist, its for you to back up your end.


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    #208
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Nodin wrote: »
    You're the one who claimed he was a racist, its for you to back up your end.
    Other people have posted and referenced the quotes. So no need to post the quotes. It was a point about showing the full picture of a historical figure.


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    #209
    Dostoevsky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Dostoevsky


    St.Spodo wrote: »
    Píssing off the right in this country and abroad is a fundamentally noble exercise. If it makes Kevin Myers cry, I'd go one step further and put a statue of Trotsky at the gate of Stephen's Green.

    I'm afraid that noble spot in Dublin is currently being occupied by a monument, named Traitors' Gate upon its erection in 1907, which glorifies Irish-born British soldiers of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers who died fighting the Boers at the start of the 20th century, in a war where the British state forced hundreds of thousands of Boers into British concentration camps, where tens of thousands of innocent Boer women and children died.

    Anyway, back to Che and how all the Anglo types think he doesn't deserve a monument because he, er, killed people.


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    #210
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Other people have posted and referenced the quotes. So no need to post the quotes. It was a point about showing the full picture of a historical figure.
    Shut the f*ck up you fenien bastards - KeithAFC on youtube

    true.


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    #211
    St.Spodo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭St.Spodo


    Dostoevsky wrote: »
    I'm afraid that noble spot in Dublin is currently being occupied by a monument, named Traitors' Gate upon its erection in 1907, which glorifies Irish-born British soldiers of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers who died fighting the Boers at the start of the 20th century, in a war where the British state forced hundreds of thousands of Boers into British concentration camps, where tens of thousands of innocent Boer women and children died.

    Anyway, back to Che and how all the Anglo types think he doesn't deserve a monument because he, er, killed people.

    Get rid of that, put up a Che statue. Sure didn't the Irish Citizen Army fight in the Green during the Rising? Do that, and get out the popcorn.


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