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Che Guevara Statue In Galway

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12467…14

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    #92
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    who the fug wrote: »
    What, that picture was taken by Alberto Korda

    The red and black iconic image was created by an Irish artist using a photograph taken by Korda.


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    #93
    Born to Die
    Closed Accounts Posts: 830 ✭✭✭Born to Die


    mikom wrote: »
    The red and black iconic image was created by an Irish artist using a photograph taken by Korda.

    Haven't read the thread.

    Jim Fitzpatrick, man responsible for the Thin Lizzy album covers.


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    #94
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    mikom wrote: »
    The name Guevara is of Basque origin.
    Guess what Galway is flooded with every summer.

    How many Eastern Europeans have made their homes in Ireland? You know the ones whose ancestors were being crushed under Soviet tanks back in Budapest while our friend Ché was happy to hob-nob in Moscow..


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    #95
    who the fug
    Registered Users Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    Learn something new every day


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    #96
    dan1895
    Registered Users Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭dan1895


    Born to Die wrote: »
    Haven't read the thread.

    Jim Fitzpatrick, man responsible for the Thin Lizzy album covers.

    Yes. The image became iconic because it wasn't copyrighted at the time and therefore was easy to spread.
    As far as I know Jim now has the copyright these days and is in the process of handing it over to the Guevara family with proceeds of sales of the image after that going to a Havana children's charity.


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    #97
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Fair play to Galway, and why not give him a statue, at least he had the courage and conviction to fight for what he believed to be right.

    The reason he is so despised in the US is that he fought so hard against dictators who were backed to the hilt by the US.

    Let's not forget that he helped to liberate Cuba from the clutches of a cruel US backed dictator who was supported by large US business and the fcuking mafia. That's just fine in my book, and if you have a problem with me holding Che in regard, then that's your own problem.


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    #98
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Che Guevara has a direct link to two Galway families. it was also an Irish artist who originally drew the iconic image of him that is seen everywhere (not always in the most appropriate places.)
    mikom wrote: »
    Even leaving aside the links to the Galway families and the Irish artist who created the iconic image.
    You are aware that Galway has a student population of about 25,000
    most of which will own something with this particular Che Guevara image on.
    Even on that basic level there will be a connection.

    The name Guevara is of Basque origin.
    Guess what Galway is flooded with every summer.


    "The first thing to note is that in my son's veins flowed the blood of the Irish rebels"
    Who said that?
    Many influential people have, or had, direct links to Irish families and had a much more positive impact on the world without such a controversial past. JFK is obviously the first one that comes to mind. In other words the Irish connections seem more like a rationalisation than genuine reason.

    Leaving that ultimately arbitrary link aside, why not honour someone actually from Ireland who fought for or in some otherway represented Ireland? Someone actually fitting to be honoured by the Irish people?

    His ideologies, concept of justice and appreciation of individual freedoms were in conflict with most of ours. He was not a man that many Irish people could relate to.

    It's a sad attempt at clinging onto someone famous for all the wrong reasons.


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    #99
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    karma_ wrote: »
    Let's not forget that he helped to liberate Cuba from the clutches of a cruel US backed dictator who was supported by large US business and the fcuking mafia. That's just fine in my book, and if you have a problem with me holding Che in regard, then that's your own problem.

    Meanwhile he had no problem with millions of people who were in the clutches of cruel Russian backed dictatorships supported by Soviet troops. So let's drop this 'he was a man for the people' malarky. Should we forget that? Or is it only cool once it's against the US? Fight the power comrade..

    How many people are paddling their bathtubs and tyretubes trying to get into Cuba by the way? Thats's a headscratcher. Just why is it that so many Cubans attempt to get into the big bad USA every year again?


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    #100
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    prinz wrote: »
    Meanwhile he had no problem with millions of people who were in the clutches of cruel Russian backed dictatorships supported by Soviet troops. So let's drop this 'he was a man for the people' malarky. Should we forget that? Or is it only cool once it's against the US? Fight the power comrade..

    I have my ideology, you have yours. Problem?


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    #101
    swimming in a sea
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭swimming in a sea


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Many influential people have, or had, direct links to Irish families and had a much more positive impact on the world without such a controversial past. JFK is obviously the first one that comes to mind. In other words the Irish connections seem more like a rationalisation than genuine reason.

    Leaving that ultimately arbitrary link aside, why not honour someone actually from Ireland who fought for or in some otherway represented Ireland? Someone actually fitting to be honoured by the Irish people?

    His ideologies, concept of justice and appreciation of individual freedoms were in conflict with most of ours. He was not a man that many Irish people could relate to.

    It's a sad attempt at clinging onto someone famous for all the wrong reasons.


    I don't hold a torch for che guevara, but he is certainly no worse than that pegleg JFK the man who started the Vietnam war.

    As for putting up statues of military men, I don't agree with that. Ballinrobe recently put up a statue of John King a naval man in the US.


    Only military statues that should be put up in Ireland are of those who have served Ireland since 1922, like those boys in the Congo, is there any statue for them????


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    #102
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    czx wrote: »
    So that justifies Che. Do you think the people who committed treason got what was coming to them?

    Interesting question. No easy answer. The fact of the matter is those executed were members of the Batista regime. They killed over 20k cubans during his run. Castro thought if they didn't hold these tribunals the land of Cuba would have descended into anarchy with lynch mobs running a muck taking justice into their own hands. So arguably he prevented further slaughter.


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    #103
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Many influential people have, or had, direct links to Irish families and had a much more positive impact on the world without such a controversial past. JFK is obviously the first one that comes to mind.

    Already done......... Eyre square in Galway city (John F. Kennedy Memorial Park)
    Serial philanderer by the way.
    Next...


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    #104
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    swimming in a sea wrote: »
    I don't hold a torch for che guevara, but he is certainly no worse than that pegleg JFK the man who started the Vietnam war.

    As for putting up statues of military men, I don't agree with that. Ballinrobe recently put up a statue of John King a naval man in the US.


    Only military statues that should be put up in Ireland are of those who have served Ireland since 1922, like those boys in the Congo, is there any statue for them????

    I wanted to respond to the JFK thing previously myself. Let's take a moment to remember the greatest irony in JFK's life, was that 3 weeks before he was himself assassinated he backstabbed the man who was his ally in South Vietnam, Diem (who was himself a nasty character). Paid for him to be overthrown and killed.


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    #105
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Chomsky reckons if we applied the war crimes rules to the letter we'd of executed every US president since WW2.


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    #106
    FLOOPER
    Registered Users Posts: 797 ✭✭✭FLOOPER


    karma_ wrote: »
    ...... at least he had the courage and conviction to fight for what he believed to be right.


    But then he learned from the best: Hitler and Stalin. :rolleyes:


    wendell borton wrote: »
    Che Castro and Guevaro were fighting against a repressive regime that exploited cuba for the benifit of a small elite. This regime was kept in power by the use of violence and torture.

    There, fixed that!

    Have ye's ever read any Orwell????

    It's like that old adage; what's the difference between communism and capitalism.
    Communism is the exploitation of man by his fellow man and Capitalism is the other way around!


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    #107
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    karma_ wrote: »
    I have my ideology, you have yours. Problem?

    I have no issue with your ideology at all. Just as long as you accept that it has nothing to do with people suffering under cruel dictatorships at all, it's more about the markings on the tanks that drive over your human rights. The end is the same. The means are the same. The colour of your flag is different. Big whoop.


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    #108
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Many influential people have, or had, direct links to Irish families and had a much more positive impact on the world without such a controversial past. JFK is obviously the first one that comes to mind. In other words the Irish connections seem more like a rationalisation than genuine reason.

    Leaving that ultimately arbitrary link aside, why not honour someone actually from Ireland who fought for or in some otherway represented Ireland? Someone actually fitting to be honoured by the Irish people?

    His ideologies, concept of justice and appreciation of individual freedoms were in conflict with most of ours. He was not a man that many Irish people could relate to.

    It's a sad attempt at clinging onto someone famous for all the wrong reasons.

    I doubt very much if you will find any non-controversial famous figures. You cite JFK as if he is universally accepted as being a great guy. I doubt the Cubans who had to fend of a CIA led invasion of their country that he sanctioned would think him a non-controversial figure.


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    #109
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    I doubt very much if you will find any non-controversial famous figures. You cite JFK as if he is universally accepted as being a great guy. I doubt the Cubans who had to fend of a CIA led invasion of their country that he sanctioned would think him a non-controversial figure.

    There's a lot of reason to think it was them that bumped him off.


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    #110
    dan1895
    Registered Users Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭dan1895


    JFK. Now there's a scumbag who's smarmy face adores many Irish home. Responsible for the Bay of Pigs and the illegal trade embargo on Cuba, probably the reason Cuba became communist as Castro had originally planned for a socialist state but his hand was forced.


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    #111
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,678 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    FLOOPER wrote: »
    But then he learned from the best: Hitler and Stalin. :rolleyes:

    On a separate note, something has to be done about this smiley :rolleyes: It just makes you look like the most self-satisfied, smug, patronising prick.
    Also, the comparison with Hitler and Stalin is preposterous.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law


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    #112
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    This is why the rest of the country hates Galway, nowhere else (outside Derry and they are a law unto themselves) would dream of commissioning a statue to a self aggrandising commie in 2012. "Oh look aren't we radical, Michael Dee, the Galway Tribes, we're not even Irish really, look at our dark eyes - look into our dark eyes - and listen our our musical soul"

    Bleugh.


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    #113
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Funny thing about the right hating Che, he was a lot of things they normally idealise. An amazing military tactician, A brave soldier nearly to the point of stupidity. Even Batistas men held major respect for him during the fighting. A hard worker to the point of obsession, extremely well educated (well the old right used to respect this), seems it breaks down for them when he stood up for the brown faces on Cuba instead of the white upper classes.


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    #114
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    karma_ wrote: »
    I wanted to respond to the JFK thing previously myself. Let's take a moment to remember the greatest irony in JFK's life, was that 3 weeks before he was himself assassinated he backstabbed the man who was his ally in South Vietnam, Diem (who was himself a nasty character). Paid for him to be overthrown and killed.

    JFK was just an example, and regardless of your personal opinion of either men you surely agree he's typically held in higher esteem than Guevara?


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    #115
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    mike65 wrote: »
    This is why the rest of the country hates Galway, nowhere else (outside Derry and they are a law unto themselves) would dream of commissioning a statue to a self aggrandising commie in 2012. "Oh look aren't we radical, Michael Dee, the Galway Tribes, we're not even Irish really, look at our dark eyes - look into our dark eyes - and listen our our musical soul"

    Bleugh.

    Tis true what they say, the further inland you are........


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    #116
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    Seachmall wrote: »
    JFK was just an example, and regardless of your personal opinion on either men you surely agree he's typically held in higher esteem than Guevara?

    Not by me.


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    #117
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Seachmall wrote: »
    JFK was just an example, and regardless of your personal opinion of either men you surely agree he's typically held in higher esteem than Guevara?

    Yes, America is very very powerful.


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    #118
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    karma_ wrote: »
    Not by me.

    Hence "typically"...
    RichieC wrote:
    Yes, America is very very powerful.
    Relevance?


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    #119
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    Statue for some, miniature American flags for others?


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    #120
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Seachmall wrote: »
    JFK was just an example, and regardless of your personal opinion of either men you surely agree he's typically held in higher esteem than Guevara?

    Up there on the mantlepiece next to PJP II


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    #121
    dan1895
    Registered Users Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭dan1895


    Seachmall wrote: »
    he's typically held in higher esteem than Guevara?

    Wrongly so in my opinion.


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