How do you intend to vote in the upcoming EU Fiscal Treaty referendum?

K-9

lmaopml wrote: »

Too true. At the moment I'm reading up..

I haven't come across a spectacularly good reason for voting 'no' to it, that didn't sound rather insular - I can't see how bringing fiscal policy into line during a time of crisis and signing up to a policy of non stupidness, is a dreadful thing in order to not only demonstrate a more secure foundation for the Euro, which can only be good for Ireland, but also to benefit the country as a whole into the future.

I'm as pissed as the next person over some of the bondholders, and the lack of movement from the ECB, and of course those excuses for it - but the burn em all brigade are even worse imo.

The year of going from one giveaway budget to the next buying votes budget should be put behind us imo - It's a good thing to plan a course over a number of years and take a sensible route. The country hasn't fallen apart, even if things have been really tough.. I'm a young parent with two children and I work in the private sector so I know exactly how tough it is...In saying that, I'm not willing to vote 'no' willy nilly, or unless a really good arguement presents itself.

squod wrote: »

I'm all for it. If it was being held in five years from now. I reckon we're broke. I reckon this won't solve that and will make life harder. Bad timing maybe, I can understand every German's enthusiasm for it.

Only reason is Bertie basically adhered to the old rules, low deficits and we had the 2nd lowest Debt ratio in Europe, next to Luxembourg.

Sinn Fein moaned about those rules, which is consistent, they moan about everything, including the sky being blue, FG and Labour moaned about us not borrowing enough and not pumping more money into the economy through spending and tax cuts,

sbsquarepants

I'm gonna vote no for the simple fact that everything that shower of cúnts has told us so far has been a total lie, so if they say it's good for the country it must be a total arse fúck. Enough is enough:mad:

dvpower

squod wrote: »

I could teach you a lesson.

:rolleyes:

Fussgangerzone

I'll be voting no. Some reasons.

1. The Fiscal Treaty is a product of ideology, I've seen nothing to prove it will work.
2. The "one size fits all" approach is unrealistic. It's be nice to think that we could fix our abortion of an economy by usign methods that also work in more sane economies elsewhere is over-optimistic, to be nice about it.
3. Most EU states have debts far in excess of 3% of GDP. Making it against the rules to not fix the problem doesn't make it any easier to fix. In fact, the fines make it more difficult
4. If we're all paying fines, where does the money go exactly?
5. IMHO, Back as far as, and before, the Maastricht Treaty, the EU has been run on ideological grounds, rather than scientific ones. I see this Treaty as a continuation of that ideology, which is broken, dangerously unsustainable and exists in isolation from reality.

Cork guitarist

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. -- George Bernard Shaw

This may be Peter's last chance to say NO.

GombeanMan

No.

suicide_circus

I will not be voting.
I no longer vote in referenda pertaining to EU matters as the will of the people is in fact irrelevant. I will vote in local and general elections just to keep my foot in the door in the hope that democracy, real credible democracy, will return to this island at some future date. I have no interest in being involved in these sham votes designed to pacify the masses.

Lockstep

squod wrote: »

Employing some kid to stand on Grafton street filling out some 'aul krap while he texts his mates does not make a poll. Asking a diverse group of people does.

Nowhere more diverse than AH.

If Boards polls were accurate in the 2011 GE, Labour would have been a powerhouse and Dylan Haskins would have sailed into the Dáil.

Overheal

The only huge cockup of the whole thing is the last referendum the govt ran, they didn't like the outcome, so they ran the vote again. How is that Democracy? "Oh you didn't vote the way we wanted you to. Well FINE we'll vote again after we've spent a little more time and money convincing you our way is the right way!" It's the kind of tactic you might see in an interrogation room to get someone to sign a confession.

Top that with Sh*theads who shall remain nameless passing laws that they haven't thought through or taken on informed advice for.

Yeah, your Democracy is fairly fcuked at the moment.

themadchef

Boards polls, are for the most part never accurate as this is where the smart people congregate This is how it SHOULD shake down in a perfect world. How it will happen is, how it always happens?............

Sure didint i promise Marty's young fella i vote Yes, we never vote outside the party.

Im not sure how to vote, and the government are scaring me so i will vote yes,

I think Inda is a roide so i will say yes.

Im not sure how to vote so i will stay at home.

I cant be arsed either way.

I will vote no to say FU to the EU.

I think they will get this through, because they dont have any other choice. They will employ every campaigner and just wait and see the bulll**** they come out with if you think the jobs promise was bad from the Lisbon campaign.

I will be voting no because they fúcked us up the ass with Lisbon as far as i am concerned.

hooradiation

Overheal wrote: »

The only huge cockup of the whole thing is the last referendum the govt ran, they didn't like the outcome, so they ran the vote again.

It saddens me that in a country with third level education available to all that this gross oversimplification has gained such traction.

yes, yes, yes, I know you're american but you're hardly alone in regurgitating this nonsense.

GombeanMan

hooradiation wrote: »

It saddens me that in a country with third level education available to all that this gross oversimplification has gained such traction.

yes, yes, yes, I know you're american but you're hardly alone in regurgitating this nonsense.

The EU is little more than a soft Totalitarian Dictatorship. None of these people were elected by myself or others. The whole thing is showing itself through failure as a giant sham. The European Union is probably going to eventually collapse, like the old Soviet Union did in 1991. They simply can't manage money properly with all these socialised bailouts and other bull****. It's not designed for long term survival.

rgmmg

Electronically

the_syco

WIZE wrote: »

we are going to default at some stage so better sooner then later

Vote yes for jobs, vote no for big social welfare cuts, tax hikes, etc; the government will need to get the money from us rather than Hitler.

hooradiation

GombeanMan wrote: »

The EU is little more than a soft Totalitarian Dictatorship. None of these people were elected by myself or others.

Well, it's always nice to have a little light humour.
Granted I am making the assumption that this is meant to be a joke. I could be wrong, you might actually think this is true.

GombeanMan

hooradiation wrote: »

Well, it's always nice to have a little light humour.
Granted I am making the assumption that this is meant to be a joke. I could be wrong, you might actually think this is true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM2Ql3wOGcU

Overheal

hooradiation wrote: »

It saddens me that in a country with third level education available to all that this gross oversimplification has gained such traction.

yes, yes, yes, I know you're american but you're hardly alone in regurgitating this nonsense.

What's the official reason they ran the same referendum twice.

hooradiation

GombeanMan wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM2Ql3wOGcU

Yeah, makes perfect sense.
I mean, remember when the EU built entire self contained cities for the sole purposes of having war criminals build rockets for them? Or when horrible accidents occured and they were covered up. Mad stuff alltogether
Oh and what about when Von Rumpy purged the MEP's, bureaucrats and army officers. That was a chilling day indeed.
And lets not forget way that complaining about the EU is the kind of thing that'll get you a lovely trip to scenic Siberia.

Oh no, wait.... I must be thinking of some other made up bullshit.

mikom

Overheal wrote: »

What's the official reason they ran the same referendum twice.

That we "didn't understand it the first time" or somesuch shite

GombeanMan

hooradiation wrote: »

Yeah, makes perfect sense.
I mean, remember when the EU built entire self contained cities for the sole purposes of having war criminals build rockets for them? Or when horrible accidents occured and they were covered up. Mad stuff alltogether
Oh and what about when Von Rumpy purged the MEP's, bureaucrats and army officers. That was a chilling day indeed.
And lets not forget way that complaining about the EU is the kind of thing that'll get you a lovely trip to scenic Siberia.

Oh no, wait.... I must be thinking of some other made up bullshit.

There is a difference between a hard and a soft dictatorship. If you are trying to argue that the EU isn't based at least partly on the old USSR model, minus the eyebrow raising parts, you aren't being fair to how this Union actually operates. Even the USA, which people tend to dislike, is far more democratic than the European Union. The proof? The president of the USA is elected as head of a Federal Republic. The EU head is simply chosen by the elites. Nobody gets a vote. Starting to sound like the USSR....

hooradiation

Overheal wrote: »

What's the official reason they ran the same referendum twice.

It really doesn't matter what I say though does it?
You've established that you believe that voting on a treaty plus concessions that were negotiated specifically in response to the concerns that people had is somehow not 'democracy'
Voting isn't democratic, apparently.

hooradiation

GombeanMan wrote: »

There is a difference between a hard and a soft dictatorship.

This only exists in your head.
It's a convenience for allowing you to scream dictatorship without having to actually make sense.

GombeanMan wrote: »

If you are trying to argue that the EU isn't based at least partly on the old USSR model, minus the eyebrow raising parts, you aren't being fair to how this Union actually operates. Even the USA, which people tend to dislike, is far more democratic than the European Union. The proof? The president of the USA is elected as head of a Federal Republic. The EU head is simply chosen by the elites. Nobody gets a vote. Starting to sound like the USSR....

Your "proof" is laughable.
The President of the European Council (there is no such thing as president of the European union) and the president of the USA are in no way comparable.

For a start the man you're complaining about, is only the president of the European Council, not the entire EU. He is effectively a fucking secretary for European Council meetings

Less time linking other peoples youtube videos and more time doing some basic research seems to be in order.

K-9

mikom wrote: »

That we "didn't understand it the first time" or somesuch shite

Basically PR speak for the Government and other parties just being pure crap at explaining it.

later12

hooradiation wrote: »

Voting isn't democratic, apparently.

I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say that re-running a referendum to usurp an undesirable result is undemocratic, but certainly, the drain that such re-runs can have on non governmental campaigns is significant.

The main political parties have a distinct advantage in that they can re-run referenda as many times as they wish. This option is not available to the public, or those outside the legislature who are opposed to the legislature's political opinions. Therefore, the latter face funding problems that would not arise to the same extent for the government parties, who can keep repeating referenda until they have worn out their opposition, which arguably happened during Lisbon.

There is also a hazard in that the public may decide "oh well what's the point in voting No, they'll just repeat the referendum... again".

suitseir

gerryo777 wrote: »

There is always a choice.

Are we going to continue making the wrong choices??

Did we REALLY ever have a choice???

suitseir

Anyone wrote: »

No from me. What I read yesterday about the German parliament discussing a leaked document before our Government about a mini budget here was the final straw.

And THAT'S a reason to vote NO???:rolleyes:

Coriolanus

I'm a federalist. I believe in the European project. I think it has been in the past, is now, and will be in the future, a Good Thing.

I'll be voting no.

hooradiation

later12 wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say that re-running a referendum to usurp an undesirable result is undemocratic

"Re-running" implies that nothing changed - which isn't true.

Sheeps

I'm going to flip a coin and then make an informed demission based on what I've read about the outcome of voting either yes or no. The flipping of the coin is unrelated, it's just something I'm going to do before voting.

eth0

As soon as the posters start appearing for this referendum I'm going to have a couple of posters made

"Vote Yes - Avoid a repeat referendum"

Sure they're only 2.50 each