SF Aengus O'Snodaigh has claimed €50,000 in expenses for Printer Ink

Godge

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

You just answered your own question. He did explain, you just decided not to believe him.



.

I didn't believe Haughey's explanations, I didn't believe Ray Burke's explanations, I didn't believe Michael Lowry's explanations, I don't believe O'Snodaigh's explanations. He is keeping good company.

The evidence is as follows:

He took €50,000 worth of cartridges and his explanation is that he used it to print constituency leaflets.

People in his constituency have no recollection of leaflets from him.
Any leaflets that have been seen (as per earlier in this thread) could not be printed with Dell cartridges.
The amount of toner cartridges would have worn out his constituency printers, where are the invoices for the new ones?
The amount of cartridges would have printed millions of leaflets, enough for a leaflet drop to every constituent every two weeks. Where are the leaflets?
Where did he get the container load of paper needed?
Did he use all the cartridges himself or give them to others?
Are they stockpiled in his office?


Now I did not come down in the last shower, Only someone who is deluded or insane could choose to believe his current explanation. Would someone in there not just get him to tell the truth and give a credible explanation for what happened. It might be that a credible explanation is out there and will be accepted by most but the current attempt to pretend that it was all about leaflet drops makes Sinn Fein look like FF-lite.

jmayo

K-9 wrote: »

It would be interesting to see the reaction when the Callely stuff started coming out to this story. Also Norris and the Presidential election and "irregularities" on sickness payments then.

Somebody posted about the Westminster expenses earlier, SF seem to have a history of suspect expense claiming. The stock answer then seemed to be "well its only Westminster", the answer this time broadly "they were all at it".

Ehh that was me.
What shocked me at the time that revelation came out was the fact that their MPs had never sat in Westminster yet they claimed expenses for two flats in London.
It also drew a few raises eyebrows from the unionists, although it appears the Robinsons were also on the gravy train over there.

Dotsey wrote: »

a) it's Gerry Adams as in Gerard rather than Jerry as in Jeremiah

As in Jerry McCabe slaughtered by jeremiah sheehy and co.

Dotsey wrote: »

b) is there something wrong with using cúpla focal within Dáil Éireann? it is our national language afterall

c) AOS wasn't secretly raiding anything, if he was this would never have emerged as it is all documented who took what. He went way overboard on leaflets in 2007 and 2008 there's no doubt about that but the bigger question is how it took 4 and 5 years for this to emerge and all only a day after SF receive extremely positive news in an opinion poll. AOS done nothing illegal and it's important to focus on that.

You sound just like all the ffers who claimed bertie did nothing wrong when he claimed massive amounts for makeup, that bev flynn did nothing wrong when she claimed an independent TDs allowance, when o'donoghue claimed for expensive chauffeur rides around Heathrow, harney claimed for haridos in Florida or used the jet for trips for her friends to Vegas.

The current crowd in power appears to have not learnt much either, since we have Quinn with some questionable travel expenses.

Your sole point there is the timing of this and sounds like a shoot the messenger rather than explain what the fook he was doing ordering at our expense so many toner/ink cartridges. :rolleyes:

BTW the leaflet excuse doesn't cut it, people would not be printing leaflets on laser or inkjets.
Oh and some os his constituents have never received any leaflets from him to back up his statement.

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I don't think it matters what party they are from they all claim massive expenses . They are all crooks

This type of sh** really angers me.
"They are all the same" is a stock answer used as a get out of jail free card to allow the worse offenders to slide by.

I have no problem with TDs getting expenses, so long as they are vouched and not pulling the p***.
And there are probably a fair few TDs that actually don't pull the p***.
Of course the ones that do then get all of them a bad reputation.

The dodgy ones don't care, because if they can use that excuse then it obsolves them of some of the blame and guilt.

By lumping everyone in with the callelys, the aherns, the o'snodaighs, you have done the decent or semi decent ones a diservice.

Even worse you have given the real dodgy ones a lifeline.

Bannasidhe

Godge wrote: »

I didn't believe Haughey's explanations, I didn't believe Ray Burke's explanations, I didn't believe Michael Lowry's explanations, I don't believe O'Snodaigh's explanations. He is keeping good company.

The evidence is as follows:

He took €50,000 worth of cartridges and his explanation is that he used it to print constituency leaflets.

People in his constituency have no recollection of leaflets from him.
Any leaflets that have been seen (as per earlier in this thread) could not be printed with Dell cartridges.
The amount of toner cartridges would have worn out his constituency printers, where are the invoices for the new ones?
The amount of cartridges would have printed millions of leaflets, enough for a leaflet drop to every constituent every two weeks. Where are the leaflets?
Where did he get the container load of paper needed?
Did he use all the cartridges himself or give them to others?
Are they stockpiled in his office?


Now I did not come down in the last shower, Only someone who is deluded or insane could choose to believe his current explanation. Would someone in there not just get him to tell the truth and give a credible explanation for what happened. It might be that a credible explanation is out there and will be accepted by most but the current attempt to pretend that it was all about leaflet drops makes Sinn Fein look like FF-lite.

Godge articulates it perfectly.

AOS made excuses - even a cursory examination of which showed they just don't explain how he could have used the ink in the way he claims to have used the ink.

SF's portrayal of themselves as being anti-snout in the trough has now been brought firmly under the spotlight - they managed to (pardon the pun) dodge the bullet when their expenses claims were published but this grubby pilfering and their FFesque 'defence' of 'working the system' and 'entitlements' and 'didn't realise the cost' etc etc indicates that far from being different to the other main political parties - SF are exactly the same when it comes to helping themselves to whatever is available at the taxpayers expense.

They could have said -'Oh, we didn't realise it cost so much so as a gesture of good faith we, the party of the working people, will reimburse the State and taxpayer.'
That would have been a PR coup, stopped much of the criticism in it's tracks and earned the a lot of kudos points with an electorate fed up of wastage and grasping public representatives. They would have gotten 50 k worth of invaluable publicity (in addition to the use of all that ink) and a free ride on the high horse of seen to be accountable. Instead - they trotted out the same old tired excuses we have heard so many times before.

rodento

I ask again, does his printer take those cartridges, should be very simple to check

Pandora2

rodento wrote: »

I ask again, does his printer take those cartridges, should be very simple to check

He would have been provided with the printers by the Oireachtas as part of his office suite...so yes he has compatible printers either in the Leinster House Office or in the Constituency (3) 1 for himself, 1 for his Parliamentary Asst and 1 for his secretary - it is up to him where he locates these printers.

rodento

Get a total usage read out from the printer if thats the case;)

kippy

As a matter of interest - do people think this has already disappeared from the media or is it still being spoken about?

kippy

kippy wrote: »

As a matter of interest - do people think this has already disappeared from the media or is it still being spoken about?

Political coverage today is all about the O'Cuiv/Martin rift within FF and the Euro Fiscal treaty referendum. If Sinn Fein knows what's good for it it will shut it's yap and keep a low profile for a few days, and this will all be ancient history unless some subsequent freedom of information request by the journalist investigating it unearths something really juicy.

walshb

Godge wrote: »

I didn't believe Haughey's explanations, I didn't believe Ray Burke's explanations, I didn't believe Michael Lowry's explanations, I don't believe O'Snodaigh's explanations. He is keeping good company.

The evidence is as follows:

He took €50,000 worth of cartridges and his explanation is that he used it to print constituency leaflets.

People in his constituency have no recollection of leaflets from him.
Any leaflets that have been seen (as per earlier in this thread) could not be printed with Dell cartridges.
The amount of toner cartridges would have worn out his constituency printers, where are the invoices for the new ones?
The amount of cartridges would have printed millions of leaflets, enough for a leaflet drop to every constituent every two weeks. Where are the leaflets?
Where did he get the container load of paper needed?
Did he use all the cartridges himself or give them to others?
Are they stockpiled in his office?


Now I did not come down in the last shower, Only someone who is deluded or insane could choose to believe his current explanation. Would someone in there not just get him to tell the truth and give a credible explanation for what happened. It might be that a credible explanation is out there and will be accepted by most but the current attempt to pretend that it was all about leaflet drops makes Sinn Fein look like FF-lite.

All that common sense you posted means nothing to these politicians. They will ride it, defend it, weasel out, argue, moan and whinge their way to this saga being forgotten and dropped.

meglome

walshb wrote: »

All that common sense you posted means nothing to these politicians. They will ride it, defend it, weasel out, argue, moan and whinge their way to this saga being forgotten and dropped.

Perhaps it would be a good idea for everyone in this thread to remember this when it comes round to election time. That is the only way they will learn.

Darsad

kippy wrote: »

As a matter of interest - do people think this has already disappeared from the media or is it still being spoken about?

So thats it a couple of uncomfortable days waffling / half ass explaining and hiding behind Big Momma on the plinth and its all finished with . Thats not good enough the figures dont add up I would like a proper explanation Please and the media should not let this go. Free Loading Tossers !!

walshb

meglome wrote: »

Perhaps it would be a good idea for everyone in this tread to remember this when it comes round to election time. That is the only way they will learn.

Hate to be a pessimist, but what replaces them? More of the same........?

meglome

walshb wrote: »

Hate to be a pessimist, but what replaces them? More of the same........?

Perhaps but it should help. I'm the optimistic type.

lugha

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

....and I am sure he will be punished in the next election if he lasts that long.

I am absolutely certain that he won't!
The Irish electorate have never, punished a politician for even out and out fraudulent behaviour, and this stops well short of that.

Fuinseog

i find it unusual that he should need to provide information to his constituents on things like bin charges. greyhound explained what to do in a letter. there is also a citizens advice bureau and if one of his constituents needs to know something all they have to do is stroll in.

walshb

lugha wrote: »

for even out and out fraudulent behaviour, and this stops well short of that.

And this statement, if true, really nails home the lack of standards in public office. A freaking sham!

john reilly

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh that was me.
What shocked me at the time that revelation came out was the fact that their MPs had never sat in Westminster yet they claimed expenses for two flats in London.
It also drew a few raises eyebrows from the unionists, although it appears the Robinsons were also on the gravy train over there.



As in Jerry McCabe slaughtered by jeremiah sheehy and co.



You sound just like all the ffers who claimed bertie did nothing wrong when he claimed massive amounts for makeup, that bev flynn did nothing wrong when she claimed an independent TDs allowance, when o'donoghue claimed for expensive chauffeur rides around Heathrow, harney claimed for haridos in Florida or used the jet for trips for her friends to Vegas.

The current crowd in power appears to have not learnt much either, since we have Quinn with some questionable travel expenses.

Your sole point there is the timing of this and sounds like a shoot the messenger rather than explain what the fook he was doing ordering at our expense so many toner/ink cartridges. :rolleyes:

BTW the leaflet excuse doesn't cut it, people would not be printing leaflets on laser or inkjets.
Oh and some os his constituents have never received any leaflets from him to back up his statement.



This type of sh** really angers me.
"They are all the same" is a stock answer used as a get out of jail free card to allow the worse offenders to slide by.

I have no problem with TDs getting expenses, so long as they are vouched and not pulling the p***.
And there are probably a fair few TDs that actually don't pull the p***.
Of course the ones that do then get all of them a bad reputation.

The dodgy ones don't care, because if they can use that excuse then it obsolves them of some of the blame and guilt.

By lumping everyone in with the callelys, the aherns, the o'snodaighs, you have done the decent or semi decent ones a diservice.

Even worse you have given the real dodgy ones a lifeline.

its nice to see that you are keeping this on the thread and not using it as another s,f bashing thread. you do realise that sinn fein have spent

john reilly

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh that was me.
What shocked me at the time that revelation came out was the fact that their MPs had never sat in Westminster yet they claimed expenses for two flats in London.
It also drew a few raises eyebrows from the unionists, although it appears the Robinsons were also on the gravy train over there.



As in Jerry McCabe slaughtered by jeremiah sheehy and co.



You sound just like all the ffers who claimed bertie did nothing wrong when he claimed massive amounts for makeup, that bev flynn did nothing wrong when she claimed an independent TDs allowance, when o'donoghue claimed for expensive chauffeur rides around Heathrow, harney claimed for haridos in Florida or used the jet for trips for her friends to Vegas.

The current crowd in power appears to have not learnt much either, since we have Quinn with some questionable travel expenses.

Your sole point there is the timing of this and sounds like a shoot the messenger rather than explain what the fook he was doing ordering at our expense so many toner/ink cartridges. :rolleyes:

BTW the leaflet excuse doesn't cut it, people would not be printing leaflets on laser or inkjets.
Oh and some os his constituents have never received any leaflets from him to back up his statement.



This type of sh** really angers me.
"They are all the same" is a stock answer used as a get out of jail free card to allow the worse offenders to slide by.

I have no problem with TDs getting expenses, so long as they are vouched and not pulling the p***.
And there are probably a fair few TDs that actually don't pull the p***.
Of course the ones that do then get all of them a bad reputation.

The dodgy ones don't care, because if they can use that excuse then it obsolves them of some of the blame and guilt.

By lumping everyone in with the callelys, the aherns, the o'snodaighs, you have done the decent or semi decent ones a diservice.

Even worse you have given the real dodgy ones a lifeline.

nice to see you are keeping this to the issue on the thread. which is the legitimate use of ink cartridges and not just another s.f bashing. would give nothing you say any credencne as your hatred would be clouding any rational commentary. sinn fein has put up with this media and establishment bias for years, the good news is this only makes them stronger. keep up the good work

john reilly

Godge wrote: »

I didn't believe Haughey's explanations, I didn't believe Ray Burke's explanations, I didn't believe Michael Lowry's explanations, I don't believe O'Snodaigh's explanations. He is keeping good company.

The evidence is as follows:

He took €50,000 worth of cartridges and his explanation is that he used it to print constituency leaflets.

People in his constituency have no recollection of leaflets from him.
Any leaflets that have been seen (as per earlier in this thread) could not be printed with Dell cartridges.
The amount of toner cartridges would have worn out his constituency printers, where are the invoices for the new ones?
The amount of cartridges would have printed millions of leaflets, enough for a leaflet drop to every constituent every two weeks. Where are the leaflets?
Where did he get the container load of paper needed?
Did he use all the cartridges himself or give them to others?
Are they stockpiled in his office?


Now I did not come down in the last shower, Only someone who is deluded or insane could choose to believe his current explanation. Would someone in there not just get him to tell the truth and give a credible explanation for what happened. It might be that a credible explanation is out there and will be accepted by most but the current attempt to pretend that it was all about leaflet drops makes Sinn Fein look like FF-lite.

this thread should be renamed the f.g and their friends in the media will try anything to distract from the balls they are making of the country

Dr Galen

So you don't believe that AOS has a legitimate question to answer?

Janedoe10

I much rather cupla focal jerry Adams . And we know Irish is our national language but thank u for pointing it out .. .... And ok Gerry is correct . Slip of the keyboard again..

Pompey Magnus

lugha wrote: »

I am absolutely certain that he won't!
The Irish electorate have never, punished a politician for even out and out fraudulent behaviour, and this stops well short of that.

I'm not so sure. He has given his explanation as it being down to literature frequently being sent to his constituents. If the various posters on here are correct who claim he sends very little literature then I would assume his electorate will see his explanation for what it is...a lie and I believe they should and will punish accordingly (assuming those posters on here are telling the truth that is).

john reilly

Dr Galen wrote: »

So you don't believe that AOS has a legitimate question to answer?

not really. what i would like to see is all expense banned or very strict limits. so we wouldnt need to have media giving selective reports of certain peoples expenses to promote their own agenda.

john reilly

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

I'm not so sure. He has given his explanation as it being down to literature frequently being sent to his constituents. If the various posters on here are correct who claim he sends very little literature then I would assume his electorate will see his explanation for what it is...a lie and I believe they should and will punish accordingly (assuming those posters on here are telling the truth that is).

how many posters are from his constituency. maybe he doesnt want to offend or corrupt their anti republican sensibilities and only sends them to people who would have an open mind

Godge

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

I'm not so sure. He has given his explanation as it being down to literature frequently being sent to his constituents. If the various posters on here are correct who claim he sends very little literature then I would assume his electorate will see his explanation for what it is...a lie and I believe they should and will punish accordingly (assuming those posters on here are telling the truth that is).

john reilly wrote: »

how many posters are from his constituency. maybe he doesnt want to offend or corrupt their anti republican sensibilities and only sends them to people who would have an open mind

Yes, at the next election, the electorate of Dublin South Central will be able to demonstrate if they are as discerning as say the electorate of Tipperary North (re-elected Mr. Lowry), Dublin Central (re-elected Mr. Ahern), Dublin North (re-eledcted Mr. Burke) and Dublin North-Central (re-elected Mr. Haughey). Yes, relying on the electorate to discern the truth is the last refuge of the rogue.

Mr. O'Snodaigh has his chance to emulate these illustrious men once he has defenders like the two lads above who are like two of the three monkeys (see no evil, hear no evil).

Come on guys, there are no leaflets, certainly not millions of them like there should be. But there are millions of leaflets postered around Dublin by various protest groups over the last 5 years for meetings to protest about this or that. Wonder who gave them the paper and the ink?

K-9

john reilly wrote: »

this thread should be renamed the f.g and their friends in the media will try anything to distract from the balls they are making of the country

All I see is most posters concentrating on the particular issue and a couple trying to divert attention away from it.

Expenses controversies should be non party political, not a la carte depending on which party member exploits them.

Dr Galen

john reilly wrote: »

not really. what i would like to see is all expense banned or very strict limits. so we wouldnt need to have media giving selective reports of certain peoples expenses to promote their own agenda.

I'm sorry but that's nonsense.

A TD fiddling the system raises definite questions that really need proper answers. As K9 says party politics shouldn't come in to it, though obviously they will to a degree.

As for cutting all expenses for TDs that's also unworkable. Lots and lots and lots of jobs have expenses paid. Of course I'd agree if you said that there should be no unvouched expenses. too many have ridden the expenses gravy train for sure but on the same token, many haven't.

All this rabble rabble ranty ranty about expenses is getting really old. People need to realise that there is a cost to having a democracy and this is one of these such costs.

kippy

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

I'm not so sure. He has given his explanation as it being down to literature frequently being sent to his constituents. If the various posters on here are correct who claim he sends very little literature then I would assume his electorate will see his explanation for what it is...a lie and I believe they should and will punish accordingly (assuming those posters on here are telling the truth that is).

We've tried this system before. You know, the one where the politician gets caught doing something that may or may not be illegal (the 50K wasnt illegal, but what he used the 50K's worth of stuff for may have been illegal - we'll never know unless it has been investigated by SOMEONE). The politician spews out some excuse which many find very difficult to believe but nothing further is done on it.
This 50K worth of ink story has been buried for the past 2-3 years, all of the people that knew about it (mostly AOS peers) decided to bury it and keep it quiet. It was a leak or a FoI that got it the publicity. This is plainly another example that shows something that a lot of us have known for a long time and it something that we don't seem to have learned from in the last 5 years or so.
We cannot let the politicians police the politicians. They are too vested and too close knit to either report, investigate or indeed sanction each other. An overseeing group of citizens or indeed a small unit within the Gardai should have responsibility for investigating these types of reports.

Posters on here don't know the truth, no more than you know the truth.
The only person who knows the full truth is AOS and from the basic logic used in a post above it is plain to see that he isn't telling the full truth and yet again this seems to have been removed from the public spotlight by a combination of PR, Spin, Smoke and Mirrors and with the assistance of other politicians, the media and the exponents of parish pump politics like a few on this thread.

kippy

john reilly wrote: »

not really. what i would like to see is all expense banned or very strict limits. so we wouldnt need to have media giving selective reports of certain peoples expenses to promote their own agenda.

And what is the agenda of "the media", in your opinion?

The media has not been selective in its reporting of expenses over the past few years, what has been extremely selective however is the response of:
a. The electorate in general.
b. Those responsible for standards in public office (who seem to, either intentionally or unintentionally, seem to stand idly by when this type of thing goes on)

I don't care what party these people are from, I don't care who they represent, I don't care what media reports on it as long as the facts are correct, I don't care what the agenda is.
What I care about is the potential abuse of position and power and the subsequent reaction to that by this country as a whole.

I could point you to threads on this forum where I have slated people such as Bertie Ahern, Ivor Callelly, Lowry, Michael Healy Rae, John O Donohoe and probably a lot more. Yet here we are a few years later and the same stuff goes on, and a percentage of people turn a blind eye and life goes on.
Were I do behave in a similar manner to any of these people, including AOS I'd either have lost my job years ago (and gotten no severnece/pension etc) for it, or ended up in court at the very least......

lugha

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

I believe they should ...

agreed!

Pompey Magnus wrote: »

and will (punish accordingly)

But why do you think they will? They never have before! My reservation is empirically based. The electorate simply have not punished politicians whose ethical conduct was, shall we say, questionable.

Can you cite even one example of a politician who suffered at the ballot box as a consequence of their unethical, or even illegal, behaviour? I, can not.