HAYE CHISORA BRAWL

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Bren, trying to hit him with bottle, glassing.
Hitting him with punch with bottle in hand is a punch, stupid thing to do but he would have hit the bottle off him if he tried too.

Is it a punch if the glass also makes contact? Or is that a glassing as well?

Sorry to sound precise. But, if the bottle too makes contact with the face, then that is not just a punch, surely you agree?

Now, that is why I am asking if it's confirmed that the bottle never made contact?

runboyrun

There was no glassing and no attempted glassing.

It was an instinctive punch and he happened to be holding a bottle. He could have did himself more damage than chisora.

It was self defence.

walshb

runboyrun wrote: »

There was no glassing and no attempted glassing.

It was an instinctive punch and he happened to be holding a bottle. He could have did himself more damage than chisora.

It was self defence.

I think he would have a case for self defence. You cannot know if it was an attempted glassing or not. Only Haye's mind knows this. For all we know he could well have intended to connect with that bottle while throwing the punch.

Fall_Guy

walshb wrote: »

Is it definite that the bottle never made ANY contact with Chisora? I mean, pics and videos would need to be analysed quite closely.

If no contact was made, yes, that is NOT a glassing. I would terem it an attempted glassing.

Well I'm glad to be able to say I'm not an expert in glassing people, but why would anyone ever attempt to glass someone by holding the bottle in their fist in the same way you would when drinking it, and then throw a punch in the manner you would (or as close as possible) if you weren't holding the bottle?

http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/dailyrecord3/feb2012/8/6/david-haye-and-dereck-chisora-image-2-619859965.jpg

If that was an attempted glassing, then it was a ridiculously stupid attempted glassing!

MagicMarker

What if, instead, Haye was holding a condom in his hand, is that some kind of sexual assault?

walshb

Fall_Guy wrote: »

If that was an attempted glassing, then it was a ridiculously stupid attempted glassing!

Maybe so, but sometimes stupid people can cause a lot of trouble.

You throw a punch while holding a weapon, in this case a bottle in your hand, then it's logical to assume folks will question this as more than just a punch.
Haye threw a punch while holding a glass bottle in his punching hand.

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Is it a punch if the glass also makes contact? Or is that a glassing as well?

Sorry to sound precise. But, if the bottle too makes contact with the face, then that is not just a punch, surely you agree?

Now, that is why I am asking if it's confirmed that the bottle never made contact?

If he hit him with the bottle it would be a glassing, accidental though in the manner he done it, it was very clear the fist was what was aimed to connect.

The jokes are great lads but lets keep it serious, ps Bren, I think you better take some of them notches off your bed post with how most people count

runboyrun

walshb wrote: »

I think he would have a case for self defence. You cannot know if it was an attempted glassing or not. Only Haye's mind knows this. For all we know he could well have intended to connect with that bottle while throwing the punch.

I think it's obvious it's not an attempted glassing because if it was he would have hit him with the bottle and not his hand. If an aggressive thug like Chisora comes at him, Haye has every right to defend himself.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

If he hit him with the bottle it would be a glassing, accidental though in the manner he done it, it was very clear the fist was what was aimed to connect.

The jokes are great lads but lets keep it serious, ps Bren, I think you better take some of them notches off your bed post with how most people count

This is sense to me. Compromising sense. And I fully agree.

That is why I wondered if the bottle made contact. Yes, looking at it it appears that Haye was intentionally punching him, and happened to have the bottle in the hand, very stupid thing to do, and he cannot blame folks for lableing him a "glasser."

I also was being very precise about what defines "glassing." The link provided would not automatically clear someone of glassing just because no injury or glass break occurred.

Fall_Guy

walshb wrote: »

This is sense to me. Compromising sense. And I fully agree.

That is why I wondered if the bottle made contact. Yes, looking at it it appears that Haye was intentionally punching him, and happened to have the bottle in the hand, very stupid thing to do, and he cannot blame folks for lableing him a "glasser."

I also was being very precise about what defines "glassing." The link provided would not automatically clear someone of glassing just because no injury or glass break occurred.

If the bottle made contact it would have been an accidental glassing. But earlier on you claimed that if it did not make contact it would be an attempted glassing. Which I don;t think is accurate because it really doesn't look like he is attempting to use the bottle as a weapon at all.

walshb

Fall_Guy wrote: »

If the bottle made contact it would have been an accidental glassing. But earlier on you claimed that if it did not make contact it would be an attempted glassing. Which I don;t think is accurate because it really doesn't look like he is attempting to use the bottle as a weapon at all.

Yes, but ultimately, ONLY Haye can know what Haye was attempting. And, if you do what he did, poor effort or not, one must think that it could well have been his his intention to glass Chisora. The fact that the bottle never made contcat, or that it "looked" like he did not intend to is irrelevant. Haye is the only one who can really know what he intended to do when he threw a punch whilst holding a glass bottle in that clenched fist.

If he was charged with an attempted glassing, I would not call that a sham. What doeas he expect? He threw a punch with a bottle in the hand. Seems black and white to me. Contcat or not, "poor effort" or not, he did what he did.

How can you accidentally glass someone? If you make contact, then it can be termed a glassing. Only the attacker can REALLY know if it was accidental. And, he/she saying it was accidental does not make it so. Of course they will say this.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Glassing means trying to slash someone with a broken bottle. Hitting someone with an unbroken bottle is hitting someone with a bottle. Haye punched him and happened to have a glass bottle in his hand. It certainly wasn't a 'glassing'.

walshb

If someone punched me in the face and was holding a bottle and that bottle made contact and caused me injury, I don't care what he/she says, they glassed me.

Or, if the did this and the glass failed to make contact, I would still never know what was their actual intention.

MagicMarker

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but ultimately, ONLY Haye can know what Haye was attempting. And, if you do what he did, poor effort or not, one must think that it could well have been his his intention to glass Chisora. The fact that the bottle never made contcat, or that it "looked" like he did not intend to is irrelevant. Haye is the only one who can really know what he intended to do when he threw a punch whilst holding a glass bottle in that clenched fist.

If he was charged with an attempted glassing, I would not call that a sham. What doeas he expect? He threw a punch with a bottle in the hand. Seems black and white to me. Contcat or not, "poor effort" or not, he did what he did.

How can you accidentally glass someone? If you make contact, then it can be termed a glassing. Only the attacker can REALLY know if it was accidental. And, he/she saying it was accidental does not make it so. Of course they will say this

No, just.. no. It's clear as day what Haye intended to do.

Walk up to anyone in the street, give them an empty bottle and ask them to pretend to glass you, you could get 10,000 people to do this and not one of them will hold the bottle the way Haye did.

What Haye intended to do was punch someone while holding a bottle, that's it.

walshb wrote: »

If someone punched me in the face and was holding a bottle and that bottle made contact and caused me injury, I don't care what he/she says, they glassed me.

What injury did Chisora sustain in this glassing?

Fall_Guy

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but ultimately, ONLY Haye can know what Haye was attempting. And, if you do what he did, poor effort or not, one must think that it could well have been his his intention to glass Chisora. The fact that the bottle never made contcat, or that it "looked" like he did not intend to is irrelevant. Haye is the only one who can really know what he intended to do when he threw a punch whilst holding a glass bottle in that clenched fist.

If he was charged with an attempted glassing, I would not call that a sham. What doeas he expect? He threw a punch with a bottle in the hand. Seems black and white to me. Contcat or not, "poor effort" or not, he did what he did.

How can you accidentally glass someone? If you make contact, then it can be termed a glassing. Only the attacker can REALLY know if it was accidental. And, he/she saying it was accidental does not make it so. Of course they will say this.

I'm not looking at this from a legal point of view, just a common sense point of view. If you wanted to hit someone with a bottle you would hold it the other way round and hit them with the bottle. You would not hold the bottle in the normal manner you do when drinking it and then throw a punch, where you are in reality shielding the person you are hitting from the bottle!

But as you say, no one can know for SURE what his intentions were. I just think it is a lot more likely that he was NOT attempting to glass him.

walshb

MagicMarker wrote: »

What injury did Chisora sustain in this glassing?

Read the rest of my post.

"Or, if they did this and the glass failed to make contact, I would still never know what was their actual intention."

walshb

Fall_Guy wrote: »

I'm not looking at this from a legal point of view, just a common sense point of view. If you wanted to hit someone with a bottle you would hold it the other way round and hit them with the bottle. You would not hold the bottle in the normal manner you do when drinking it and then throw a punch, where you are in reality shielding the person you are hitting from the bottle!

But as you say, no one can know for SURE what his intentions were. I just think it is a lot more likely that he was NOT attempting to glass him.

Yes, I agree with you. It looks like he was not intending to do it. But, only he can really know.

And, separatetly, I would side with all the victims who have been badly injured from similar incidents. I don't wanna' hear, "I didn't mean to glass him."

You have a glass or bottle in your hand and strike someone with a punch, then don't be suprised if you get done for GBH.

Oh, unless it is in self defence.

This is it. Whilst Haye did a very dangerous thing, I believe that it was Chisora who caused the incident. Haye has a case for self defence.

MagicMarker

walshb wrote: »

Read the rest of my post.

"Or, if they did this and the glass failed to make contact, I would still never know what was their actual intention."

And I'm saying you're quite clearly wrong, we can use the information at hand to make an informed decision. The information in this case tells us that Haye didn't try and glass Chisora.

Likewise, if Haye had the bottle by the neck and swung it at Chisora's head but Chisora ducked, resulting in no contact being made, then it's still clear that Haye intended to glass him.

walshb

MagicMarker wrote: »

And I'm saying you're quite clearly wrong, we can use the information at hand to make an informed decision. The information in this case tells us that Haye didn't try and glass Chisora.

Likewise, if Haye had the bottle by the neck and swung it at Chisora's head but Chisora ducked, resulting in no contact being made, then it's still clear that Haye intended to glass him.

You can use the info and study the footage. I would still say that doing what he did could be deemed as an attempted glassing, albeit a poor effort.

Personally I agree that it looks like he did not intend to. I'm with you on this. But, I would not slate a jury for convicting a person with that evidence.

If I was to judge, yes, I would probaly say it was not his intention. But, I would not slate anyone for the opposite view.

The man had a bottle in his hand, threw a punch with that hand/fist. Looks sloppy, looks non intentinal, etc etc, he still had the bottle in the punching hand. That is damning. Accidental, intentional, or non intentional. He is the only one who knows this.

Load a gun, point it at someone, and it "accidentally" goes off? Happens.

RiseToTheTop

LMAO, Haye posted a pic of outside his "hiding spot" on twitter.

http://yfrog.com/hs2ukktrj

RiseToTheTop

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/17105966

The president of the "Federation of German Professional Boxers" believes Chisora should be banned for life. Will he **** off please! Did he want Mike Tyson to get 20 years in prison after he bite Holyfield?!?

walshb

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/17105966

The president of the "Federation of German Professional Boxers" believes Chisora should be banned for life. Will he **** off please! Did he want Mike Tyson to get 20 years in prison after he bite Holyfield?!?

I would agree with that. Spare us all having to watch him attempt to box!

Ash.J.Williams

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

LMAO, Haye posted a pic of outside his "hiding spot" on twitter.

http://yfrog.com/hs2ukktrj

ha first comment

chisora is the thug did you watch the footage? haye's a legend. has chisora or the klitschko's beat any 7ft giants? chisora should be banned hes a muppet!

plasmaguy

A couple points here.

What was Haye drinking, was it alcohol?

Why was there bottles of what looked like beer at a press conference and there was some at the table where Chisora was too. Surely this was asking for trouble. There's always a chance of punch ups at these press conferences, history tells us that.

Other point is, if Haye is convicted, does that mean his dreams of making it in Hollywood, laughable that they are, go up in smoke?

R P McMurphy

kevohmsford wrote: »

This whole thing is a disgrace for boxing. Chisora is one dangerous man and a disgrace to the sport of boxing.
Chisora has been detained at the airport in Munich. You cannot go around threatening the lives of people and expect to get away with it.

He should be banned from boxing for the spitting incident alone. What a fool

Henno30

plasmaguy wrote: »

A couple points here.

What was Haye drinking, was it alcohol?

Why was there bottles of what looked like beer at a press conference and there was some at the table where Chisora was too. Surely this was asking for trouble. There's always a chance of punch ups at these press conferences, history tells us that.

In fairness it hardly ever happens. Probably less than 1% and even that would probably be too high.

I sincerely hope that Chisora and Haye never win the heavyweight championship. One of these assholes being a world champ is the last thing the sport needs. It gets attention, but it's the kind of attention a drunken reality tv show 'star' gets stumbling out of a nightclub. It puts the great sport of boxing in the gutter.

RiseToTheTop

plasmaguy wrote: »

A couple points here.

What was Haye drinking, was it alcohol?

Why was there bottles of what looked like beer at a press conference and there was some at the table where Chisora was too. Surely this was asking for trouble. There's always a chance of punch ups at these press conferences, history tells us that.

Other point is, if Haye is convicted, does that mean his dreams of making it in Hollywood, laughable that they are, go up in smoke?

Well the Klitschko's boxing boring doesn't seem to stop them from appearing in TV commercials, being on a whole range of products, so I guess not.

Bandana boy

runboyrun wrote: »

There was no glassing and no attempted glassing.

It was an instinctive punch and he happened to be holding a bottle. He could have did himself more damage than chisora.

It was self defence.

I am pretty sure you do not understand what self defence means.I agree Chisora is a classless scumbag but you seem to have a hard on for Haye and he is at best as big a scum bag and probably/likely a bigger scumbag.

His act of hitting somebody with a bottle and then a camera stand was cowardly,thuggish,dangerous,criminal and stupid not provoked or justified or anything other than the acts of a low class scumbag.

cowzerp

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Well the Klitschko's boxing boring doesn't seem to stop them from appearing in TV commercials, being on a whole range of products, so I guess not.

Their not boring in my opinion, fighting almost 1 armed you can't expect big excitement, when I heard he hardly jabbed I knew their was something not right, now it's clear and he still easy won.

They're loved in Germany so that's why they're on ads etc regular and they are classy fellas in fairness-any brand likes to be linked with talent and class

RiseToTheTop

Mike Tyson was far from classy, yet when he was fightning he was my favourite fighter by far.