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What a spineless nation...

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    #272
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    dvpower wrote: »
    I get it now.
    We haven't been good at making the big fish accountable so we should let the little fish go.

    Makes no sense whatsoever.

    Start at the top / lead by example and all that....


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    #273
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    dvpower wrote: »
    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Just another example of wastage of OUR money in public life/services.

    I didn't hear of anyone being held to account for either of these screwup's.

    The same way that no social welfare officer will be held accountable for paying out more money to people than they were entitled to.

    The same way nobody in public life is ever accountable.

    But hey, let's just get the message out there that everyone on welfare is a scrounger/fraudster and encourage people to watch everything their neighbours are doing/spending and report them if we THINK they have it too easy.

    This is Ireland, my country, in 2012.
    I get it now.
    We haven't been good at making the big fish accountable so we should let the little fish go.

    Makes no sense whatsoever.

    Not my sentiments at all. My problem is the there has been a mass of irish running to punish the small fish before the big fish. Its disgusting frankly. Some of the irish turn a blind eye to the massive waste in our system yet run en masse to report the small fries when the government puts the spin on things that social welfare is the enemy of our times.


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    #274
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Not my sentiments at all. My problem is the there has been a mass of irish running to punish the small fish before the big fish. Its disgusting frankly. Some of the irish turn a blind eye to the massive waste in our system yet run en masse to report the small fries when the government puts the spin on things that social welfare is the enemy of our times.
    Do you think the people who reported fraud to the DSP don't want an end to corruption and waste?
    Do you think that some of them might have some information about high end corruption but are keeping quite about it?

    This thread is getting stranger and stranger.


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    #275
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    dvpower wrote: »
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Not my sentiments at all. My problem is the there has been a mass of irish running to punish the small fish before the big fish. Its disgusting frankly. Some of the irish turn a blind eye to the massive waste in our system yet run en masse to report the small fries when the government puts the spin on things that social welfare is the enemy of our times.
    Do you think the people who reported fraud to the DSP don't want an end to corruption and waste?
    Do you think that some of them might have some information about high end corruption but are keeping quite about it?

    This thread is getting stranger and stranger.

    I didnt hear about 15,000 letters of complaints to tds no. I didnt see the same response to dodgy building practices either. Nor do I see a big campaign directed public pensions. I havent seen this level of action directed at any but social welfare.


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    #276
    smokedeels
    Registered Users Posts: 2,883 ✭✭✭smokedeels


    mikom wrote: »
    Would you report your neighbor for smoking a spliff on his back porch?

    It's also the duty of every citizen to pick and choose the laws they agree with.


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    #277
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    smokedeels wrote: »
    mikom wrote: »
    Would you report your neighbor for smoking a spliff on his back porch?

    It's also the duty of every citizen to pick and choose the laws they agree with.

    Well ireland should get a medal for that because weve been doing it for years.


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    #278
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I didnt hear about 15,000 letters of complaints to tds no. I didnt see the same response to dodgy building practices either. Nor do I see a big campaign directed public pensions. I havent seen this level of action directed at any but social welfare.
    Being a TD is NOT a crime
    Collecting a pension is NOT a crime
    Stealing my tax money by SW fraud IS a crime, no excuse,no justification. I wonder if someone mugged your wife or mother would you happily excuse them because TDs dont get prosecuted for being elected or retired hospital porters dont get jailed for cashing their pension cheques?
    SW fraudsters are thieves, simple as!


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    #279
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    lividduck wrote: »
    Being a TD is NOT a crime
    Collecting a pension is NOT a crime
    Stealing my tax money by SW fraud IS a crime, no excuse,no justification. I wonder if someone mugged your wife or mother would you happily excuse them because TDs dont get prosecuted for being elected or retired hospital porters dont get jailed for cashing their pension cheques?
    SW fraudsters are thieves, simple as!

    Sorry but in my book giving people massive pensions while telling people on the poverty line to take cuts is criminal. Dodgy building practices is criminal, tds recieving backhanders is criminal. Hell if you want to look at the facts of it there seems to be more outrage over this than the sexual abuses of catholic priests in this country. When you get down to it people in this country have a massive problem with social welfare fraud or not. Half these claims were probraly made in spite.


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    #280
    Jake187
    Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭Jake187


    My view is ...

    If someone reports genuine social welfare fraud? fair enough to that.
    But I can't accept someone reporting a fake frauding claim. All because they hate the person.

    But there is often a grey area in between. Some may report because they "suspected" someone is frauding (without doing some sort of basic homework first, which they should)
    Then, there are others who play the "I suspected" card trying to mask they did it out of malice with NO suspicions.


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    #281
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Jake187 wrote: »
    My view is ...

    If someone reports genuine social welfare fraud? fair enough to that.
    But I can't accept someone reporting a fake frauding claim. All because they hate the person.

    But there is often a grey area in between. Some may report because they "suspected" someone is frauding (without doing some sort of basic homework first, which they should)
    Then, there are others who play the "I suspected" card trying to mask they did it out of malice with NO suspicions.

    I'd be like that. If a guy gets a few days a month doing odd jobs, which is common with so many Construction workers on the dole, I don't think it is worth the administrative hassle to report.

    Some guy claiming away and working full time, worth reporting. He is costing the dole payment, lost taxes and PRSI, claiming Medical cards and the employer is also gaining by not paying PRSI and probably under declaring turnover to compensate, so less Income Tax, PRSI and VAT.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #282
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Jake187 wrote: »
    My view is ...

    If someone reports genuine social welfare fraud? fair enough to that.
    But I can't accept someone reporting a fake frauding claim. All because they hate the person.

    But there is often a grey area in between. Some may report because they "suspected" someone is frauding (without doing some sort of basic homework first, which they should)
    Then, there are others who play the "I suspected" card trying to mask they did it out of malice with NO suspicions.

    Thats my view but I dont agree with people reporting a guy for a few nixers ect.


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    #283
    Jake187
    Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭Jake187


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Thats my view but I dont agree with people reporting a guy for a few nixers ect.

    I agree 100%.
    Nothing wrong with nixers. That can apply to someone on the social or someone working. Its only random extra income. For someone to report that, it makes them a very sad, bitter and jealous individual.


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    #284
    Jake187
    Closed Accounts Posts: 75 ✭✭Jake187


    To be perfectly honest, Although I am sure I will get a backlash on here for this...
    I couldnt report someone for actual social welfare fraud. Unless they personally did something against me. Something that warrents a reaction. I guess that can be classed as a "fu*k me?, well fu*k you!" attitude. So be it if it is.

    As for why? ...
    Because quite frankly life aint fair. Sadly the state of the world is get what you can. Right and wrong take a backseat.
    But i have seen so much hypocrisy in my life. Many a person going against with what they once said was wrong. I don't know people in this thread. But a person with life experience can know 'people' ... and that is many who are against 'sw fraud' would do the same themselves if they could.

    So I honestly believe this thread is hot air.


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    #285
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Jake187 wrote: »
    To be perfectly honest, Although I am sure I will get a backlash on here for this...
    I couldnt report someone for actual social welfare fraud. Unless they personally did something against me. Something that warrents a reaction. I guess that can be classed as a "fu*k me?, well fu*k you!" attitude. So be it if it is.

    As for why? ...
    Because quite frankly life aint fair. Sadly the state of the world is get what you can. Right and wrong take a backseat.
    But i have seen so much hypocrisy in my life. Many a person going against with what they once said was wrong. I don't know people in this thread. But a person with life experience can know 'people' ... and that is many who are against 'sw fraud' would do the same themselves if they could.

    So I honestly believe this thread is hot air.
    If you saw someone shoplifting or snatching a handbag, would you report that? Or someone bribing a planning official with a few hundred quid to get approval for their attic extension?

    These things don't effect you directly either.


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    #286
    jimaneejeebus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭jimaneejeebus


    I think there is a ridiculous amount of people on this thread who missed the OP's point...

    "Meanwhile, when it comes to corrupt politicians, bankers and senior civil servants. These spineless people won't take to the streets. Instead, they hide behind the anonymity of email or text messaging. They will tolerate corruption as long as its done by people in suits. Sickening."


    Some observations....
    We are as a nation incredibly quick to inflict schadenfreude. Perhaps something to do with a wariness and distrust of 'outsiders' or 'foreign interests'? That is probably why we tell everyone who airs any grievance whatsoever to just leave. Get out ye black n tans ....la la la

    We are also a nation incredibly devoid of independent thought. We seem to adore the status quo and paying these very same 'foreign interest' lots of money.

    We are also a nation incredibly enamored by spelling and grammar mistakes and seem to enjoy using these as the crux of all our arguments.


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    #287
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    lividduck wrote: »
    Me and the OH are up at 6 every morning to go to work, seldom home before 6 in the evening, I dont work and pay tax to benifit Social Welfare fraudsters, I dont care who they are if I know someone is cheating the system, I report them, simple as!
    Its the employers offering black market work that should be getting strung up . I get offered the odd day here and there where I get a half hour lunch break in sometimes a ten or twelve hour day for 80 euro. Its in the hand if I complin he will give it to someone else. If I get caught he will have nothing done to him I will be hung out to dry. If I fell off a ladder Id probably get told to say it happened in a mates house. Iv no tax no insurance , no prsi nothing . I detest the ****e bag that gives me this work but what can I do only take it. Id love for him to put me on the books , he is saving a fortune in prsi , holiday wages etc. But Im the scumbag apparantly because Im forced into this situation .
    If I get caught there will be no investigation into this fella.


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