Bare bones cider question

Khannie

Sky King wrote: »

Drink it anyway - don't let it go to waste!

Haha.

Ah I'm a long way off making perry from pears. That sounds like a nice recipe though (excepting the spices...wouldn't do it for me I think). I've decided to hold off and not start tonight. Going to make a bit more than 1L of the cloudy apple juice version and leave the apples to ripen a bit. Also Granny has the kids for the night.

DeadSkin

Khannie wrote: »

Haha.

Ah I'm a long way off making perry from pears. That sounds like a nice recipe though (excepting the spices...wouldn't do it for me I think). I've decided to hold off and not start tonight. Going to make a bit more than 1L of the cloudy apple juice version and leave the apples to ripen a bit. Also Granny has the kids for the night.

Interested to see how this turns out, good luck with it.
Plant a perry pear tree while you're waiting :pac:

Khannie

True story: I planted a pear tree on Sunday. 5.99 in Lidl. How could I refuse! :pac: I think that's how they sell half their stuff..."X...at Y price! How can I refuse?"

Even if I don't make Perry with the fruit, there are 3 pear lovers in the house so it was probably a decent investment anyway.

Sky King

Incidentally, while I was making my spicy witch's brew (above) I had 3/4 of a carton of cloudy apple juice left over, so I just turfed some yeast into the carton and gave it a shake, then loosened the cap on it and left it loose to let the CO2 out, then stuck it in the press.

Interested to see how that one works out! More of an experiment than anything else.

leggit

Sky King wrote: »

Incidentally, while I was making my spicy witch's brew (above) I had 3/4 of a carton of cloudy apple juice left over, so I just turfed some yeast into the carton and gave it a shake, then loosened the cap on it and left it loose to let the CO2 out, then stuck it in the press.

Interested to see how that one works out! More of an experiment than anything else.

:eek:

Khannie

Well....I finally got started tonight. I made two batches:

1 x 500ml batch of freshly pressed apple juice
1 x 3.5L batch of aldi / lidl's finest cloudy apple juice

I used:
5L water container - free. Had this already.
thin bleach - 69c (super valu)
vinegar - 39c (lidl)
cider yeast (2.50 delivered, ebay)
6 apples (69c lidl)
4L of cloudy apple juice (1.29 each aldi / lidl)
tea bag (in the cupboard...everyone has one)
3 tsp sugar (same)

First off I sanitised the 5L water container. We just had that lying around from ages ago. 1.19 to buy one if you need one though, just dump the water and then I suppose you wouldn't need to sanitise it.

I put about 3.5L of the cloudy apple juice into the 5L container then added about 150ml of very, very strong tea with 3 tsp of sugar in it (this was to bring it to about the same sugar level as the apple juice, give or take). Added about 1g of yeast (weirdly, I have a good idea what 1g looks like...long story). Shook it up after about 20 minutes to mix the yeast in well. Lid on but not tight. That was that.

I have to say, the cloudy apple juice tasted pretty good. Very close to freshly pressed apple juice.

Then on to the apples. I juiced 6 apples which I picked up for 69c in lidl last week. Got about 500ml out of them, give or take. I had sanitised the jug that the juice flows into with the thin bleach and vinegar mix. I then poured this into one of the empty apple juice cartons (which I figure was already sanitary, more or less). Added a small amount of yeast. Waited a while. Shook it up. That's it. No tea in this one, just want to see what the pure apple juice turns out like.

So now I suppose the waiting game begins. A few pics below.

Juice that I got from the 6 apples:



The apple pulp and the juicer:



The finished (not by a long shot) product. Includes top of 5 year olds head:

Sky King

Ha, that's the same apple juice and 'fermenter' I am using...

BeerNut

Khannie wrote: »

just dump the water and then I suppose you wouldn't need to sanitise it.

You most certainly would. Bottled water has more nasty stuff in it than tap water.

I think you may have underpitched the yeast. If fermentation doesn't happen add more.

Otherwise, best of luck with the experiment!

Khannie

BeerNut wrote: »

I think you may have underpitched the yeast. If fermentation doesn't happen add more.

Is there a critical mass required? I (naively maybe) thought that whatever I put in would just multiply continuously until fermentation was complete.

BeerNut

I'm not an expert on yeast, but generally I use one sachet per batch, regardless of size. I've never done one as small as 3.5L, but definitely would use the whole lot in 5L.

Khannie

Hmmmm. I went with ~1g because the 5g packet said that it was enough for 23L.

Sure we'll see how it goes anyway. If there's no movement in a few days I'll throw some more in.

BeerNut

Yeah, that's your best bet. It may well be fine.

As I understand it, underpitching is more of a problem than overpitching. And also the cell count in dry yeast is quite low to begin with: a whole packet in 23L is far less than a commercial brewer would consider acceptable.

Khannie

We have lift off.

There was a thin layer of bubbles on it when I got home last night. I threw a bit more yeast in to make sure I wasn't underpitching. This morning there was a decent layer of scum on top (I'd say just under 1cm at its tallest).

I did some research yesterday. It turns out there's a few orchards not far from my house, one of which makes its own cider and allows the public to use their press (they have open days). They also have cider making classes.

Khannie

Hmmm. I'm now concerned that I've made an arse of things. When I got home the evening after my last post, all the scum was gone. I gave the juice a bit of a shake around and figuring it might be a bit cold, I put it in the hot press last night. The tank is well insulated so the hot press doesn't get overly hot. I'd guess it's in the 22-23 degree area more or less constantly. It's been in there nearly 24 hours now and there is no sign of any fermentation. I am definitely not underpitched at this stage. Do I just need to relax?

Khannie

Actually....it's grand. It's quite noisy. Sounds like a fizzy drink.

DeadSkin

Khannie wrote: »

Hmmm. I'm now concerned that I've made an arse of things. When I got home the evening after my last post, all the scum was gone. I gave the juice a bit of a shake around and figuring it might be a bit cold, I put it in the hot press last night. The tank is well insulated so the hot press doesn't get overly hot. I'd guess it's in the 22-23 degree area more or less constantly. It's been in there nearly 24 hours now and there is no sign of any fermentation. I am definitely not underpitched at this stage. Do I just need to relax?

LOL, gave it a bit of a shake, pictures Khannie shaking the crap out of it screaming 'Wake up, wake up, damn you!!!'.

I share your concerns, I have a ginger beer on the go & it looks a bit lifeless, but I'll leave it be for another few days........before I get the heavies around, do you hear me up there!!! :pac:

Khannie

DeadSkin wrote: »

LOL, gave it a bit of a shake, pictures Khannie shaking the crap out of it screaming 'Wake up, wake up, damn you!!!'

Have you been spying on me? :pac:

Ah once it's making that noise I'm happy enough.

BeerNut

Shaking is a really bad idea. You can introduce oxidised (cardboard) flavours.

Putting a fermenter in the hotpress is a bad idea. You can introduce unpleasant smelly esters.

Khannie

BeerNut wrote: »

Shaking is a really bad idea. You can introduce oxidised (cardboard) flavours.

Thanks. I wont do that again so.

BeerNut wrote: »

Putting a fermenter in the hotpress is a bad idea. You can introduce unpleasant smelly esters.

Thanks. I'll take it out when I get home. Tell me more though. There's no real odour in the hot press. It's just warm. The alternative spot is in a wooden drinks press in the sitting room (which gets cold at night, but not very cold. It's not a very warm room though.). My wife had put it in there just to hide it / keep it away from the kids, but when I opened it up I could smell varnish in it. Mild, but enough to make me want to take it out. It has to be kept out of sight and away from the kids. I suppose I could make room in my wardrobe if push came to shove.

BeerNut

Khannie wrote: »

There's no real odour in the hot press. It's just warm.

Yeast isn't simply a machine for turning sugar into alcohol and carbon dioxide. Different strains produce other chemicals which stay behind and can be tasted in the finished product. With beer yeasts, an unpleasantly funky flavour can be produced, especially at higher temperatures. I'm not so sure with cider (champagne) yeast, though. In general, fermenting slow and cool will give better results than fast and warm.

Khannie

That's very helpful. Thanks. I'll remove it when I get home.

Kid Charlemagne

BeerNut wrote: »

You most certainly would. Bottled water has more nasty stuff in it than tap water.

I think you may have underpitched the yeast. If fermentation doesn't happen add more.

Otherwise, best of luck with the experiment!

Disagree.
Ive used those water bottles plenty of time without sanitising. Theres no reason to sanitise.

leggit

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

Disagree.
Ive used those water bottles plenty of time without sanitising. Theres no reason to sanitise.

I'd be one to go on the side of caution. It's only some thin bleach and vinegar in some water and it can save you a lot of hassle if you do get an infected batch from these bottles some day.

I'd be one to always sanitise everything no matter how clean I thought it was.

Kid Charlemagne

leggit wrote: »

I'd be one to go on the side of caution. It's only some thin bleach and vinegar in some water and it can save you a lot of hassle if you do get an infected batch from these bottles some day.

I'd be one to always sanitise everything no matter how clean I thought it was.

Makes sense - for me i hate the idea of bleach though, hence why i tend to avoid if possible.

BeerNut

It's a little bit more dangerous than the ethanol the process produces, but used in much much lower concentrations

covey09

I have my 7 wks in the fermenter now, im a bit concerned that it will be fecked now, whats the longest you have left yours for?

Khannie

I think that should be ok. I think once there's no sugar left the yeast just stops making alcohol. I'm not sure if the yeast will have died though, preventing carbonation. Worst case scenario you could add some starter (yeast, warm water, sugar) and a pinch more sugar at bottling time.

BeerNut will be along soon.

Khannie

Well I'm five days in and things seem to be progressing nicely. The cloudy apple juice one has a thin layer of scum on top and about 1cm of sediment at the bottom (I wasn't expecting this much, but there you have it).

The freshly pressed apple juice one has a nice thick layer of scum on top. I can't see the bottom because it's in a carton.

Both are fizzing away nicely. Sounds like a freshly poured fizzy drink.

edit: The cloudy apple juice one smells filthy. The freshly pressed apple juice one actually smells nice enough. Cider-ey.

leggit

covey09 wrote: »

I have my 7 wks in the fermenter now, im a bit concerned that it will be fecked now, whats the longest you have left yours for?

I'd say its fine, heard of people leaving a brew in the fermentor for a few months and it working out ok (if not better!). Once there's alcohol it should be enough to keep it from getting infected as long as you've had it covered.

I'm not a cider expert but batch priming and giving it a bit of a slow stir should be alright to get carbonation I'd say.

Carawaystick

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

Disagree.
Ive used those water bottles plenty of time without sanitising. Theres no reason to sanitise.

I think what Beernut was referring to was the fact that bottled water in Ireland has to meet away lower standards than mains water.
There were two different bottled waters found to have e. coli a few years back. the use/hsa/fsa decided to take them off the shelves but no naming or shaming or recall issued :eek:

Anyhoo how do people bottle if they brew in a 5L carboy or bottle with no tap at the bottom?