Prime Time - Investigation Into Prostitution: Feb 7th 2012

lynski

lynski wrote: »

.....................
and what kind of a man are you if you have to pay someone to have sex with you?

I'd say 50% (at least) of the Irish lads who have gone to Thailand or Amsterdam (without girlfriends in tow) have paid for sex.

Kalinda

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Ben D Bus wrote: »

Not according to the programme I've just watched.

It IS still illegal. They arrested the prostitutes in this program, but normally the guards focus on the punters.. But both sides of the "transaction" are illegal.

Why isnt anton arrestd and jailed? I dont get it.

Scanlas The 2nd

lynski wrote: »

and what kind of a man are you if you have to pay someone to have sex with you?

You would be a man who lacks the ability to seduce women, you would be a man who struggles to successfully chat up women.

Do you look down upon men who aren't very good at seducing women? Do you view them as "sad"?

What kind of man are you if you can't say the alphabet backwards?

Some people simply aren't good at certain things.

Ash.J.Williams

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

You would be a man who lacks the ability to seduce women, you would be a man who struggles to successfully chat up women.

Do you look down upon men who aren't very good at seducing women? Do you view them as "sad"?

If your answer is "yes" you are contributing to people trafficking, drugs and death!

JonathanAnon

kraggy wrote: »

You mean legal.Running a brothel and soliticting are illegal but the actual payment/receipt of payment are not.

Just listening to the radio today it appears I'm wrong.. That it is not illegal to pay for sex.. I'm a bit confused though.. This case was in the media last year

Men caught in prostitution sting by undercover gardai enter guilty pleas

FEMALE garda officers posed as prostitutes as part of a major sting operation which brought 21 potential clients before court. Dressed in plain clothes, the gardai were propositioned by the 21 men on several streets in Limerick city. The female officers were supported by their colleagues, who were positioned nearby throughout the sting operation. In some instances, the officers were approached by men driving cars.

The vast majority of the offences took place between 9pm and midnight in the Barrington Street, Catherine Street and Mallow Street areas of Limerick city. The garda operation is the first major sting operation outside of the capital to target potential clients of prostitutes. 'Operation Freewheel' will continue over the Christmas period and into the new year.Twenty-one men -- aged from 23 to 67 -- pleaded guilty in Limerick District Court yesterday to soliciting or importuning female garda officers for the purpose of prostitution.

In other incidents, Sgt Leahy said the men approached two plain-clothed gardai acting as prostitutes and offered them money for sex or sexual activity. All 21 men were directed to appear before Judge Eamon O'Brien yesterday.

The offenders, with addresses in Limerick, Clare, Tipperary and Kerry, pleaded guilty to the offence under the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 1993. Ten of them were arrested in Limerick city over the past weekend.

The case hit the headlines because all 21 men were "named and shamed". Still leaves me confused as to what exactly the men were convicted of, IF offering money for sex is NOT illegal?

SBWife

JonathanAnon wrote: »

The case hit the headlines because all 21 men were "named and shamed". Still leaves me confused as to what exactly the men were convicted of, IF offering money for sex is NOT illegal?

AFAIK it's not illegal to offer money for sex in private but curb crawling is illegal.

Scanlas The 2nd

SBWife wrote: »

JonathanAnon wrote: »

The case hit the headlines because all 21 men were "named and shamed". Still leaves me confused as to what exactly the men were convicted of, IF offering money for sex is NOT illegal?

AFAIK it's not illegal to offer money for sex in private but curb crawling is illegal.

Is it illegal to ask for sex on the street for free?

TMC99

"A discussion document on the possibility of such legislation criminalising the purchase of sex will be issued by the end of the month, according to the Department of Justice.

Although it is an offence to solicit prostitution in a public place, it is not an offence to sell or purchase sex, except in the case where someone knowingly solicits a person who has been trafficked for the purpose of prostitution."

"A group including representatives of the Department of Justice and gardaí travelled to Sweden last September to meet officials and experts to examine 1999 Swedish legislation which provides that a person who obtains or attempts to obtain a casual sexual relation, in any place, in return for payment commits an offence.

A report on the visit was published by the department at which time Minister for Justice Alan Shatter said a consultation document would be prepared to inform future legislation in this area."

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...310626760.html

irishh_bob

token101 wrote: »

I don't know about that. Again, I didn't watch the show, but I'd say some are in it for the money. There was an article in the Journal about some hard up single mother saying she was doing it. Now the article's probably bull****, but I'd say there's a fair few, particularly Irish women, on the game through choice, albeit because of economic hardship.

im not saying they dont do it out of financial nesscesity , im saying all of them are having to give a cut to someone

irishh_bob

irishh_bob wrote: »

im not saying they dont do it out of financial nesscesity , im saying all of them are having to give a cut to someone

All of them?
So there are no actual self employed (or whatever the term is) escorts/prostitutes working in Ireland that do not give a cut to someone?

frag420

So did anyone recognice their fathers/brothers/uncles/friends voice on the messages that were played at the end of the show?

Would you approach them if you did?

I thought it strange that one of the ladies interviewed claimed that no actual female individual could place an add on the site as it was somehow an agency or whatever, yet PrimeTime themselves claimed they got an add on the site with one of their production team posing ?

Badgermonkey

JonathanAnon wrote: »

In reality most of the men are just sad and lonely individuals, who wouldnt get sex outside of a brothel..

Disagree.

I doubt the bulk of those who visit sex workers conform to the stereotype of the socially maladjusted loner.

I'd imagine they would be broadly representative of society - labourers, middle management, high-flyers, unemployed, civil servants, married guys, single guys etc.

JonathanAnon wrote: »

And I dont appreciate your "all men are b*stards" tone, you sound like those Ruhama people

Well said.

To my mind, when two consenting adults freely agree to enact a transaction for sex, any state interference, with the exception of health and taxation regulation, would seem to me to impinge upon the basic privacy and personal freedoms of those involved.

Where there is evidence of human trafficking, aggresive and co-ordinated multi-agency pursuit of those involved should be prioritised.

As for Ruhama, the recent 'Turn Off the Red Light' radio campaign supported by Ruhama, ICTU Women, Immigrant Council of Ireland etc. was incredibly disingenuous in claiming all prostitution in Ireland was as a consequence of sex-trafficking.

While I wholeheartedly agree that shining a light on sex-trafficking is an absolute necessity, to do so in a less than candid manner reflects poorly on the messenger and sullies the credibility of the message

Mr. Loverman

Ruhama, you gotta respect their ability to get their stories into the media.

JonathanAnon

SBWife wrote: »

AFAIK it's not illegal to offer money for sex in private but curb crawling is illegal.

That's what I was thinking but it does not say that in the article above.. it seems to insinuate that the crime was actually asking and paying for sex.

JonathanAnon

JonathanAnon wrote: »

............. it seems to insinuate that the crime was actually asking and paying for sex.

........ from ladies on the street

fryup

Diddler1977 wrote: »

He's a brave man approaching this guy like that

maybe he should have approach the guy when he was out of the car, it was far too easy for the scumbag to just drive away

easy for me to say i know, but i just wish they could have nailed/humiliated the guy on camera he got off too easy i thought

goose2005

token101 wrote: »

I didn't watch the show, but these 'punters' must know full well and be able to distinguish women are being kept as slaves as opposed to the consenting 'professional' women in it for the money? Surely your conscience would at least make you go and give an anonymous tip? You'd want to be a seriously f***ed up human being if you could sleep at night knowing that someone who could easily be your mother/sister/daughter given different circumstances is essentially being raped on a daily basis and you did nothing.

How are they to know? If you hired an agency cleaner, and it turned out that her employer was holding her passport and only paid her €2 an hour, is it your fault? And should all cleaning for hire be made illegal if some workers turn out to be slaves?

NewHillel

Ben D Bus wrote: »

Interesting point. Could a punter, even theoretically, be charged with rape for having sex with a trafficked/pimped prostitute? That might make some people think twice.

I'd love to see a case, or two, being taken. Might make the punter think twice.

goose2005

NewHillel wrote: »

I'd love to see a case, or two, being taken. Might make the punter think twice.

I don't think that would satisfy mens rea. Prostitution will always exist; just as making drugs illegal puts their distribution in the hands of violent gangs, making prostitution illegal makes it much more dangerous for the prostitutes.

NewHillel

goose2005 wrote: »

I don't think that would satisfy mens rea. Prostitution will always exist; just as making drugs illegal puts their distribution in the hands of violent gangs, making prostitution illegal makes it much more dangerous for the prostitutes.

Not always, it depends on the resources being deployed to tackle this area of organised crime. That in turn depends on how much pressure the public brings to bear. If the punters are being being named, shamed and prosecuted; and the organised criminals are being aggressively pursued, the 'trade' would all but die out.

Kangoo Man

If prostitution is made more illegal, it will just go deeper underground, and will become more violent for the Women involved. Legalisation is the only answer.

Sean Bateman

The whole Romanian mafia 16 hours a day moving around stuff was shocking.

But what was the big deal about the brothel in Ballsbridge and that woman who seemed to be organising it?

The African woman and the women being pimped by the Romanian were getting €20 or €30 a day. They were being trafficked and moved around like animals.

The posh woman was offering a 50:50 split, reasonable rent, no rent if there's no punters, referrals to STD clinics, a chauffer service and a guy to wait outside during outcalls. If it's going to be legalised, isn't this the way it should be???

nxbyveromdwjpg

NewHillel wrote: »

Not always, it depends on the resources being deployed to tackle this area of organised crime. That in turn depends on how much pressure the public brings to bear. If the punters are being being named, shamed and prosecuted; and the organised criminals are being aggressively pursued, the 'trade' would all but die out.

Good one, its worked a treat for illegal drugs.

NewHillel

Sean Bateman wrote: »

The whole Romanian mafia 16 hours a day moving around stuff was shocking.

But what was the big deal about the brothel in Ballsbridge and that woman who seemed to be organising it?

The African woman and the women being pimped by the Romanian were getting €20 or €30 a day. They were being trafficked and moved around like animals.

The posh woman was offering a 50:50 split, reasonable rent, no rent if there's no punters, referrals to STD clinics, a chauffer service and a guy to wait outside during outcalls. If it's going to be legalised, isn't this the way it should be???

Yeah, there certainly is a case to be made for legalisation, in strictly controlled conditions. It certainly would be far better than what we saw last night.

dublinman1990

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Looks like RTE have that reporter lad, John, out doorstepping lads putting a mic in their face.. Could be interesting..

If you are talking about his name called John, well you are completely wrong.

The reporters first name is Paul, on the basis of his middle class accent.

I did that see that programme last night and it truly was a depressing programme to watch. The most disturbing part of the programme was a callout by Paul ringing the women while working on the Lord's Day, which is known obviously as Christmas Day. I think that this idea is totally wrong on the pimps and traffickers to have prostitutes working on this solemn day.

This disgraceful act or so called ''profession'' should be a big no-no for of what I should call the women of NGI (Next Generation Ireland).

NewHillel

nm wrote: »

Good one, its worked a treat for illegal drugs.

You may be right, legalisation may be better. There's no easy answer.
The big issue, for me, is removing the coercion and people trafficing.

I totally agree that making drugs illegal has been counter-productive, in many different ways.

pigman2000

Sean Bateman wrote: »

The whole Romanian mafia 16 hours a day moving around stuff was shocking.

But what was the big deal about the brothel in Ballsbridge and that woman who seemed to be organising it?

The African woman and the women being pimped by the Romanian were getting €20 or €30 a day. They were being trafficked and moved around like animals.

The posh woman was offering a 50:50 split, reasonable rent, no rent if there's no punters, referrals to STD clinics, a chauffer service and a guy to wait outside during outcalls. If it's going to be legalised, isn't this the way it should be???

I agree - i think they got this Ion lad and made him the poster boogey man. I'd reckon that the majority is an operation like the above posh woman, knowing how prime time operate...

JonathanAnon

dublinman1990 wrote: »

If you are talking about his name called John, well you are completely wrong. The reporters first name is Paul, on the basis of his middle class accent.

Yeah, it's John Kilrane I'm thinking of.. they have very similar Dublin accents..

gbee

Well, my wife was listening to 4FM, Nial's show and a 'Happy Prostitute' said she made €5,000 in one week in Cork of all places ~ My wife gasps, €5,000 in one week.

So as I look at our third eviction letter, I ask do you think you could make five grand a week, "Well she said it was a once off!"