Excellent Experience with Budapest Dentist

helimachoptor

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

.

So, now into my seventh year since my treatment, I remain very happy with the quality of the treatment in received in Budapest, and with the prices.

but....

Adan Petite Crate wrote: »

Also its worth doing maths on this your original treatment was Jan 2011 (5 years ago, yes you are in your 6th year, shame on me) and the prosthesis was remade at your expense in 2013 or 14 due to veneer debonds and aesthetic failure (thats what having it remade cause you dont like the look of it is called), I forget which year, making the major part of the prosthesis 2 or 3 years old (or in your 3 or 4th year depending on phrasing). triggers broom

I hope it continues going well for you. Update us in 2017

mickdw

This thread is nuts.
The Irish dentists appear blind to the possibility of anyone receiving a reasonable standard of work in another country.
Do Irish Dentists train in some world class facility for only irish dentists?
Unless one goes and looks for the absolute bargain basement operators, I dont see any reason why equal treatment cannot be obtained in any developed country.
It is worth noting that a poor dental job has often been done here notwithstanding the extreme price paid.
To be quite honest, I dont believe I could afford dental work here such are the prices charged.

davo10

mickdw wrote: »

This thread is nuts.
The Irish dentists appear blind to the possibility of anyone receiving a reasonable standard of work in another country.
Do Irish Dentists train in some world class facility for only irish dentists?
Unless one goes and looks for the absolute bargain basement operators, I dont see any reason why equal treatment cannot be obtained in any developed country.
It is worth noting that a poor dental job has often been done here notwithstanding the extreme price paid.
To be quite honest, I dont believe I could afford dental work here such are the prices charged.

I'm sorry but that is absolutely wrong.

I do not feel that Irish dentists are any better than those trained in other countries, there are are good and bad here just like in every other country in the world.

The issue lies in the volume of treatment, the speed with which it is done, the lack of aftercare and the absence of accountability when problems occur. Rarely do problems occur when small amounts are done, but when huge volumes are done on the same patient at a single/few visits, the scope for problems increases exponentially.

Hillmanhunter updated his experience, but he is less forthcoming about the fact that he had to back and have the prostheses replaced, at his expense when problems occurred relatively soon after it was fitted.

Incidentally, do dentists train in world class facilities here, absolutely, the facilities in Trinity and UCC are better then I saw in renowned Colleges in the US like Tufts in Boston and NY Dental School, and in the U.K., Guys, Kings, Eastman etc

Tom Mann Centuria

It does, to me at least, read like dentists circling the wagons on this subject, and the tone of some of the responses going back through the thread do nothing to dissuade me.

davo10

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

It does, to me at least, read like dentists circling the wagons on this subject, and the tone of some of the responses going back through the thread do nothing to dissuade me.

Ya, it certainly gives that impression. But there is an imbalance in the information. Many of the responses from dentists are replies to Hillmanhunter. He often forgets what he posts and contradicts himself, then accuses posters of "straw man" arguments.

The imbalance comes from the fact that this is the profession we are in. If you take your own profession, you have greater insight in to it than others have and you can comment based on what you have experienced. Many of us experience people with issues after treatment has gone wrong, if that is just a filling, thens is easy to address, if it's multiple implants, failing prostheses, debonded bridgework, chronic periodontal issues, then the remedial treatment is more complex. No one travels for a couple of filings, as a result the tourists we see have extensive treatments, and when they go wrong they go very wrong.

You might call that circling the wagons, I call that reality, your experience may not extend beyond receiving treatment yourself, mine extends to treating hundreds over the last 15 years.

Hillmanhunter1

davo10 wrote: »

Hillmanhunter updated his experience, but he is less forthcoming about the fact that he had to back and have the prostheses replaced, at his expense when problems occurred relatively soon after it was fitted.

I have no problem debating the merits/demerits of dental treatment abroad, but the statement above takes considerable liberty with the truth, and that I object to. 
It will be abundantly clear to any one who reads this (now weary) thread that the decision to replace the dentures (not prostheses, use plain language please) was for aesthetic reasons, and not because there was any problem with them. I was vain enough to want a whiter look - as simple as that.

Hillmanhunter1

mickdw wrote: »

This thread is nuts.
The Irish dentists appear blind to the possibility of anyone receiving a reasonable standard of work in another country.
Do Irish Dentists train in some world class facility for only irish dentists?
Unless one goes and looks for the absolute bargain basement operators, I dont see any reason why equal treatment cannot be obtained in any developed country.
It is worth noting that a poor dental job has often been done here notwithstanding the extreme price paid.
To be quite honest, I dont believe I could afford dental work here such are the prices charged.

It is almost 10 years since the Competition Authority defined the problem succinctly:
"Competition in dental services is restricted and discouraged by an outdated system of regulation for dentists and related professions. The number of dentists and orthodontists being trained in Ireland has not kept pace with the growing demand for dental services. Consumers in Ireland do not have the benefits of the competition between dentists and a range of other qualified oral health professions that exists in other countries".

https://www.ccpc.ie/business/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/02/Dentists-Final-Report.pdf ;

That report has simply gathered dust - there's no votes in taking on the vested interests in this (and in fairness, other) profession.

Makood

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

It does, to me at least, read like dentists circling the wagons on this subject, and the tone of some of the responses going back through the thread do nothing to dissuade me.

It's a fairly common theme here I'm afraid.

Stheno

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

It is almost 10 years since the Competition Authority defined the problem succinctly:
"Competition in dental services is restricted and discouraged by an outdated system of regulation for dentists and related professions. The number of dentists and orthodontists being trained in Ireland has not kept pace with the growing demand for dental services. Consumers in Ireland do not have the benefits of the competition between dentists and a range of other qualified oral health professions that exists in other countries".

https://www.ccpc.ie/business/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/02/Dentists-Final-Report.pdf 

That report has simply gathered dust - there's no votes in taking on the vested interests in this (and in fairness, other) profession.

My dentist regularly does Groupon deals for a scale and polish that are heavilu discounted

Dianthus

Is there much point in debating it all over again? It's the same old same old- OP is still delighted with his treatment, some other posters still advise caution. Anyone who wants to travel abroad can do a quick Google search, & PM the OP for more information, as per the very first post a whole 6 years ago. Lets move on.

helimachoptor

Ok, were heading back down the "Irish dentists don't like competition" which has been done more times than i can count.

Hillman, see you in a year for your next update.

Hillmanhunter1

Latest Update:

Quick recap - it's now been 9 years since I travelled to Budapest where I had extensive dental work done. My teeth were in very poor condition and I had a lot of extractions leaving me with just 7 natural teeth. The dentist fitted me with over dentures - which means that he fitted crowns to my remaining teeth and used them as anchors for the dentures. This gave me a strong bite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overdenture

I have been very happy with the work done and over the years I have attended a German, a Greek and more recently a Scottish dentist (I live in the Middle East now) who all admired the quality of the work done.

In early summer 2019 I travelled again to Budapest to have replacement dentures fitted. A couple of the veneers had come off the old ones, requiring running repairs.

The dentist was happy with the quality of the existing crowns and the metal bases of the dentures, so they simply built new dentures upon the existing metal bases. That took 4 days. I spent a pleasant time in Budapest but without my dentures I probably had Goulash more often that I might have cared for!

Back in the Middle East all was fine up until three weeks ago when I began to feel pain in the root of one of my teeth. My dentist (the Scot) thought that it could not be saved and so I have lost one more tooth. The wound has healed up, the dentures still fit fine, and my remaining teeth and gums are in good condition but in time I may, if it is feasible, need to consider having implants so that I benefit from the better bite (and confidence) that over dentures give.

Oral Surgeon

Dav010

I’m pretty sure you posted that you had to have a replacement set made before the most recent 2019 ones. I’m not reading back through the thread, but wouldn’t that make it 3 sets of overdentures in 9 years? That would be a lot.

Hillmanhunter1

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m pretty sure you posted that you had to have a replacement set made before the most recent 2019 ones. I’m not reading back through the thread, but wouldn’t that make it 3 sets of overdentures in 9 years? That would be a lot.

Yes, I had new dentures fitted in 2014.

The original (2011) dentures were more "yellow" in colour. I chose that at the time because I guess I was self-conscious about altering my appearance too drastically. After a few years a couple of veneers came out and I went to Budapest to get new dentures in a lighted colour. The dentist said that my dentures did not need replacement, that he could just replace the veneers, but I wanted to go lighter.

So the dentures fitted in 2019 replaced those fitted in 2014. The new dentures are built on the metal arches (not sure of the correct term) from 2014, and those sit on the original crowns fitted in 2011.

So, my last set of dentures lasted 5 years.

Dav010

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Yes, I had new dentures fitted in 2014.

The original (2011) dentures were more "yellow" in colour. I chose that at the time because I guess I was self-conscious about altering my appearance too drastically. After a few years a couple of veneers came out and I went to Budapest to get new dentures in a lighted colour. The dentist said that my dentures did not need replacement, that he could just replace the veneers, but I wanted to go lighter.

So the dentures fitted in 2019 replaced those fitted in 2014. The new dentures are built on the metal arches (not sure of the correct term) from 2014, and those sit on the original crowns fitted in 2011.

So, my last set of dentures lasted 5 years.

Most patients would not describe their treatment as “excellent” if they needed 3 sets of dentures in 9 years because bits were falling off them. Particularly if they had to travel a considerable distance each time to have them replaced. Your dentist is very lucky to have you as a patient.

Hillmanhunter1

Dav010 wrote: »

Most patients would not describe their treatment as “excellent” if they needed 3 sets of dentures in 9 years because bits were falling off them. Particularly if they had to travel a considerable distance each time to have them replaced. Your dentist is very lucky to have you as a patient.

Your math is a little wonky, I hope you count teeth better!

I needed the first set of dentures because I needed dentures, not because bits were falling off.

Some of the veneers (I'm sure that's the wrong word, is false teeth better?) fell out, but that's not unusual. Most cities (including Dublin but unfortunately not the city I live in) have walk-in places where you can get that fixed in 30 minutes by a technician.

So as explained above, and several other times in this thread, I had my first set replaced for aesthetic reasons. My second set lasted 5 years, which is I think around about normal.

Oral Surgeon

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Your math is a little wonky, I hope you count teeth better!

I needed the first set of dentures because I needed dentures, not because bits were falling off.

Some of the veneers (I'm sure that's the wrong word, is false teeth better?) fell out, but that's not unusual. Most cities (including Dublin but unfortunately not the city I live in) have walk-in places where you can get that fixed in 30 minutes by a technician.

So as explained above, and several other times in this thread, I had my first set replaced for aesthetic reasons. My second set lasted 5 years, which is I think around about normal.

Dav010

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

Your math is a little wonky, I hope you count teeth better!

I needed the first set of dentures because I needed dentures, not because bits were falling off.

Some of the veneers (I'm sure that's the wrong word, is false teeth better?) fell out, but that's not unusual. Most cities (including Dublin but unfortunately not the city I live in) have walk-in places where you can get that fixed in 30 minutes by a technician.

So as explained above, and several other times in this thread, I had my first set replaced for aesthetic reasons. My second set lasted 5 years, which is I think around about normal.

I’m pretty sure my maths is correct, 2011, 2015, 2019, is that not 3 sets in 8 years? Didn’t you post earlier in the thread that a couple of the veneers fell off in 2015?

Hillmanhunter1

Dav010 wrote: »

I’m pretty sure my maths is correct, 2011, 2015, 2019, is that not 3 sets in 8 years? Didn’t you post earlier in the thread that a couple of the veneers fell off in 2015?

OK.

You said that I had to get three sets because bits were falling off. I pointed out that I got the first set because I needed dentures, not because "bits were falling off".

So that leaves dentures 2 and 3. I replaced the first set after 3 years because I wanted a lighter colour, the dentures did not need to be replaced for any other reason. Bits (i.e. teeth) do fall off dentures - that's why there are denture repair shops. It seems that dentures fitted in Dublin may require repair too:
https://www.google.com/search?q=denture+repairs+dublin&oq=denture+repairs+dunlin&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l7.16506j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I replaced the second set after 5 years. The molars were smooth and they didn't fit my gums as well as they once had.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Thanks for the update. Things dont sound that stable, another tooth gone. :mad:Overdentures still not structurally stable even after its remake (likely a lack of space) Anyway so long as your happy with the frequent breakages and onerous maintenance then treatment is a great success.

You should consider a fixed implant solution, removable prosthetics are far inferior,and are generally a treatment of compromise and economic pragmatism. Confidence comes from not taking out your teeth at night and not being worried that another denture tooth will clip off at any moment.

Hillmanhunter1

Adan Petite Crate wrote: »

Thanks for the update. Things dont sound that stable, another tooth gone. :mad:Overdentures still not structurally stable even after its remake (likely a lack of space) Anyway so long as your happy with the frequent breakages and onerous maintenance then treatment is a great success.

You should consider a fixed implant solution, removable prosthetics are far inferior,and are generally a treatment of compromise and economic pragmatism. Confidence comes from not taking out your teeth at night and not being worried that another denture tooth will clip off at any moment.

It is amusing, to say the least, that a dentist who has never seen me insists that he knows better than me (as the patient) the two Hungarian dentists who have treated me, and the German, Greek and Scottish dentists who have reviewed the Hungarian work and all declared it to be top quality.

Hubris?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

It is amusing, to say the least, that a dentist who has never seen me insists that he knows better than me (as the patient) the two Hungarian dentists who have treated me, and the German, Greek and Scottish dentists who have reviewed the Hungarian work and all declared it to be top quality.

Hubris?

All I know is what you tell me. My idea of top quality may diverge from a number of general dentists. However the fact remains that you have now had this denture remade or relined 4 times in 9 years, and there have been a number of I am sure inconvenient and unamusing breakages, . I think that in light of these facts, worth repeating, that the hubris is maybe the title of this thread. Yes removable prosthetics require maintenance, however well designed ones certainly do not require this level of repair and maintenance. I did a number of overdentures in 2011 when you had this treatment and I certainly have not remade them 3 times since. As I said before so long as your happy, but I reserve the right to comment.

Hillmanhunter1

Adan Petite Crate wrote: »

All I know is what you tell me. My idea of top quality may diverge from a number of general dentists. However the fact remains that you have now had this denture remade or relined 4 times in 9 years, and there have been a number of I am sure inconvenient and unamusing breakages, . I think that in light of these facts, worth repeating, that the hubris is maybe the title of this thread. Yes removable prosthetics require maintenance, however well designed ones certainly do not require this level of repair and maintenance. I did a number of overdentures in 2011 when you had this treatment and I certainly have not remade them 3 times since. As I said before so long as your happy, but I reserve the right to comment.

Your right to comment is not in question, though your ability to count is:)

For a profession that ought to pride itself on precision I find the carelessness with numbers and language to be more than a little disconcerting.

It does seem to me, and perhaps to the casual observer too, that no matter what I report the chorus of Sturm und Drang from the usual suspects will quickly follow.

But perhaps I'm doing you an injustice, so allow me to offer you a chance to say something positive about my treatment.

According to one eminent expert, "Overdentures have an 80% abutments failure rate at 8 years when they are done very well".
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76846090&postcount=29

Well, after 9 years I have lost just 1 of my 7 abutments, i.e. a failure rate of 14.3%. The treatment I received in Budapest must therefore, by your standards, have been of exceptional and outstanding quality. Agreed?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

But perhaps I'm doing you an injustice, so allow me to offer you a chance to say something positive about my treatment.
?

For me the best thing about your treatment has been that it has brought us all together as friends

Thargor

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

According to one eminent expert, "Overdentures have an 80% abutments failure rate at 8 years when they are done very well".
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=76846090&postcount=29

Well, after 9 years I have lost just 1 of my 7 abutments, i.e. a failure rate of 14.3%. The treatment I received in Budapest must therefore, by your standards, have been of exceptional and outstanding quality. Agreed?

Interesting thread, just wanted to say bravo on this retort though, 8 years in the making

Oral Surgeon

Thargor wrote: »

Interesting thread, just wanted to say bravo on this retort though, 8 years in the making

Not really. Hillman is misunderstanding the stats here...

80% of overdentures had an abutment fail at 8 years not 80% of abutments fail!!

So Hillman having lost one abutment falls into this 80%....

Dav010

Hillmanhunter1 wrote: »

For a profession that ought to pride itself on precision I find the carelessness with numbers and language to be more than a little disconcerting.

According to one eminent expert, "Overdentures have an 80% abutments failure rate at 8 years when they are done very well".

Well, after 9 years I have lost just 1 of my 7 abutments, i.e. a failure rate of 14.3%.

Agreed?

While I don’t wish to get in the middle of your and fitzgene’s chat, I think you should look at your own mathematical proficiency.

If 1 in 7 of your abutments fail, that is a 14.3% failure rate of your own implants, but a failure of an implant within the approximate timeframe of 8 years, would indeed place you in the 80 percentile failure rate of overdenture patient study group, it would not be 14.3% of that study group.

Incidentally, what study are you referring to?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Thargor wrote: »

Interesting thread, just wanted to say bravo on this retort though, 8 years in the making

The OP really has no cause for celebration, and its that 80% of overdenture have one or more teeth lost in 8 years. A terrible prognosis often rendering the overdenture very poor, never mind the well documented repairs, relines, remakes, "running repairs" and veneer breakages. Seems I was on the money. I also mentioned the space issues 8 years ago, often the reason you get so many breakages and poor appearance, all of which came to pass...but like what would I know. Unlike the OP I take no joy in this, and whether I am right or wrong, its the OP that has to live with this denture.

Dav010 wrote: »

Incidentally, what study are you referring to?

Budtz-Jorgensen did a longterm study on this, . Ettinger and Taylor....Ettinger and Qian are the other definitive studies. Not much in the modern literature. Reports vary on specific survival rates and specific causes of failure, but in general the agreement is that maintenance burden is high and tooth loss if higher than for partial dentures or fixed prosthodontics. My figure is the meta amalgamation of a few, rounded for ease of communication and ignoring cause. I find when patient are looking for prognosis its best just to give a simple figure.

Hillmanhunter1

Adan Petite Crate wrote: »

The OP really has no cause for celebration, and its that 80% of overdenture have one or more teeth lost in 8 years. A terrible prognosis often rendering the overdenture very poor, never mind the well documented repairs, relines, remakes, "running repairs" and veneer breakages. Seems I was on the money. I also mentioned the space issues 8 years ago, often the reason you get so many breakages and poor appearance, all of which came to pass...but like what would I know. Unlike the OP I take no joy in this, and whether I am right or wrong, its the OP that has to live with this denture.



Budtz-Jorgensen did a longterm study on this, . Ettinger and Taylor....Ettinger and Qian are the other definitive studies. Not much in the modern literature. Reports vary on specific survival rates and specific causes of failure, but in general the agreement is that maintenance burden is high and tooth loss if higher than for partial dentures or fixed prosthodontics. My figure is the meta amalgamation of a few, rounded for ease of communication and ignoring cause. I find when patient are looking for prognosis its best just to give a simple figure.

That is priceless, you should be in politics!

Translation: 'I made it up".