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Me Against The World...

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    How'd the run go?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭El Director


    BTH wrote: »

    Yeah, it's be blakes cross group. Early start to spin out but a good pace and done and dusted before 11.

    Down the sticks this weekend if you fancy meeting in Roscommon Sunday morning??

    Cool, I may meet with that group again if it fits the plans. Ill be doing my long run on Sunday and have already planned to meet a mate from home for that so I best stick to plans. Ill let you know next time I'm down that direction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    How'd the run go?

    Headed out for a 20min jog last night.

    First km I had a slight pain on the right hand side of my left knee-cap. This eased, and after that I was ok. Still not 100% but ok. Looked after at the pace vs HR, all was in a good place, HR in recovery zone for 4:50 pace give or take and cadence was as it was in Aug/Sept, although form wasn't great but thats to be expected. That pain in the knee cap was worrying me. Before I stopped running I would be sore early in a run and it would ease off. But would be very sore hours later. So this morning would be the real test. And a very familiar stiffness of the knee and this AM. Fcuking bullsh1t. 7 weeks later, €300 of physio fees lighter, and I'm getting the same sh1t after only 20 minutes jogging. So p1ssed off with the whole thing.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Pain in knee cap? What did the physio say it was? Patellafemoral? ITB issues?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    Pain in knee cap? What did the physio say it was? Patellafemoral? ITB issues?

    See, this is the thing, I've been to two different Physios and both have been fairly vague about a diagnosis. The girl I'm going to at the moment is convinced that its stemming from a weakness in the left glute, and the imbalance in my stride as a result of this as my hamstrings and quads do more of the work. So we're doing a lot of work to wake up the left side, and reduce that imbalance.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭kingQuez


    BTH wrote: »
    is convinced that its stemming from a weakness in the left glute

    They love blaming the left glute.. 8 weeks and counting for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭Bambaata


    Have you tried the man with the tan?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Your "imbalance" didn't stop you smashing your 10k PB over the summer did it :rolleyes: Typical physio response! Imbalance my arse (excuse the pun). Overuse, niggle, click outta place etc... Has everything been ruled out before they proclaimed imbalance?

    Find someone who understands runners and running biomechanics. It will be worth the bucks if they pinpoint it first time


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    BTH wrote: »
    See, this is the thing, I've been to two different Physios and both have been fairly vague about a diagnosis. The girl I'm going to at the moment is convinced that its stemming from a weakness in the left glute, and the imbalance in my stride as a result of this as my hamstrings and quads do more of the work. So we're doing a lot of work to wake up the left side, and reduce that imbalance.

    Left glute for kneecap pain?

    Third opinion time.

    What sort of rehab exercises have you been doing? No pain on the bike? Any pain in the pool, pushing off the wall or anything? Climbing stairs? Squatting?
    kingQuez wrote: »
    They love blaming the left glute.. 8 weeks and counting for me.

    You need to be sent for a scan. Somethings bogey there - obviously a stress fracture or tendon injury should be healed by now but somethings not right. Foot/ankle is fragile. 8 weeks with no improvement is a joke.
    Bambaata wrote: »
    Have you tried the man with the tan?

    Was going to ask the same thing. Abandon the 'physio' route and try someone else. Imbalances shouldn't take this long anyway.

    You both need to give Dave or one of his protégés a shot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,888 ✭✭✭Dory Dory


    Try yoga, perhaps?

    I agree with shotgun (and company) - find someone who understands runners and all that comes with running. It really could be as simple as incorporating specific stretches, strength and/or balance exercises into your routine to correct whatever is wrong. Keep us posted.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    Thanks for the help everyone. The Physio I've been going to does actually understand the sport. She's a current member of a Dublin triathlon club and has done IM races in the past, so shes not someone who only deals with old ladies with back pain (writing that I've just realised that someone here could take offence, but that wasn't my intention DD :D).

    I'll be arranging a session with the man with the tan next week. You'll want to get a photo of that, comparing his tan and mine!! :D

    In brighter news, I can still bike, and more importantly swim, smashing a tasty 400TT this morning :D :cool: A few months of 4 sessions a week should see that time crumble much further too.

    Maybe they'll cancel the run leg of all races next season.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    Nice to see some good news in the log! :cool:

    Hope the injury gets sorted soon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    kingQuez wrote: »
    They love blaming the left glute.. 8 weeks and counting for me.

    Its sooo bloody frustrating. I'm only a week behind you and not getting all that far.
    Bambaata wrote: »
    Have you tried the man with the tan?

    I haven't but I intend to, hopefully early next week. At least he might be able to confirm whether or not I'm on the right track with what I'm currently doing. Second set of eyes can't hurt.
    Your "imbalance" didn't stop you smashing your 10k PB over the summer did it :rolleyes: Typical physio response! Imbalance my arse (excuse the pun). Overuse, niggle, click outta place etc... Has everything been ruled out before they proclaimed imbalance?

    Find someone who understands runners and running biomechanics. It will be worth the bucks if they pinpoint it first time

    Its fairly obvious that its all come from the increase in miles. Back when I smashed that 10k time I was running 40-55km per week. 4 weeks of 75-90 km and my body wasn't able to deal with it. I have known about the imbalance for a while, but it never caused any problems and I wasn't too concerned as long as I didn't do anything stupid. Then I did something stupid and bumped up the miles quickly. For three weeks there was absolutely no problem though.

    I'll be getting what will now be a third opinion though..
    Left glute for kneecap pain?

    Third opinion time.

    What sort of rehab exercises have you been doing? No pain on the bike? Any pain in the pool, pushing off the wall or anything? Climbing stairs? Squatting?



    You need to be sent for a scan. Somethings bogey there - obviously a stress fracture or tendon injury should be healed by now but somethings not right. Foot/ankle is fragile. 8 weeks with no improvement is a joke.



    Was going to ask the same thing. Abandon the 'physio' route and try someone else. Imbalances shouldn't take this long anyway.

    You both need to give Dave or one of his protégés a shot.

    No pain anywhere else. I was getting pain climbing stairs initially, but this faded over the weeks. It came back on Wednesday morning, but I was fine again yesterday. No problem squatting, and absolutely no probs in the pool or biking. Physio is convinced that the joint itself is fine, otherwise I'd be getting pain behind the kneecap. As I said, third opinion, just to be safe. First physio just had me doing squats, and using me as a punch bag. Thats why he didn't last. Current physio has me doing things to force the glute into waking up, and there is definitely massive improvement there. The pain I had on Wednesday morning was gone by Thursday so something is happening, something is improving.
    Dory Dory wrote: »
    Try yoga, perhaps?

    I agree with shotgun (and company) - find someone who understands runners and all that comes with running. It really could be as simple as incorporating specific stretches, strength and/or balance exercises into your routine to correct whatever is wrong. Keep us posted.

    Yoga is something I've been meaning to get back into for a couple of weeks now, and I did do 30min on Saturday last. Just need to get back at it consistently. I found a good youtube video that follows a very similar routine to the classes I was doing this time last year, so I can throw that on at any time. Problem is getting time, as these damn physio exercises need to be done everyday too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    MWT works miracles you will be flying around in no time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    Monday PM Club swim session. 6*200 on 3:20 found these a struggle mentally. I was getting smashed around the place from the waves of other swimmers, and it was pissing me off. 8*100 on 2:15 aiming to come in under 1:25. This was much better. 1:23 for the most part, although being 4th in the lane helps. Realised that we've been doing a lot of 50s and 100s since we came back, which probably helps explain the mental drifting during the 200s.

    Tuesday PM
    20min run as discussed already

    75min turbo, with some steady effort low gear work which hurt and left me with some tasty DOMS Wednesday and Yesterday

    Wednesday AM
    Swim, supposed to do 400 & 200m TT but by the time I'd a good WU done and was almost ready to start the pool was too full to be able to get a decent crack at it. Always seems much quieter on a Thursday morning so figured that would be better anyway. Instead, 4*200 on 3:20, 6*50 band & bouy on 60, 4*200 on 3:30. Again, zoned out during the 200s. Focus focus focus. 3100m

    Thursday AM
    Swim, no excuses this time. 400wu, 4*25 hard on 45, all sub 20, 50 easy 4*50 hard on 75, all sub 40, 100 easy, and the lane is still free. Infact the lane to my right is also empty. Definitely no excuses. Go out hard on the 400 but trying not to quite go as hard as I did for the 50s. I can see the clock at the end of each 50 when I breath, but I decide not to look until half way. Hit the wall after 200 at about 2:50/51, but its starting to pinch now. Still, worked hard, imagining Interested on the deck screaming at me :pac: , only looking at the clock at the end, 5:53 :cool:. Happy enough with that. Only back on the wagon one week, so thats a great place to start from :D. 15min and 4 easy 100s later I do a 200m test. Guy has just joined the lane but said he's slow so he'll keep out of my way. Great. I wait until he's almost back at the wall before I start. Still catch him at the 125m mark, but he doesn't hold me up much at all. Maybe missed half a stroke at the wall. Clear water the rest of the way for a 2:49. Nice to start the day with two pbs!! 2150m covered.

    Thursday PM
    More turbo torture. 75min with 2*10min @ 75rpm and an effort level higher than I was doing the "steady" (steady, moderate, whats the difference??) work on Tuesday. Burn burn burn. I'm not a low cadence biker! 43km done in the 75min.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Great swimming! Although Important not surprised given the ITs for 4s and 2s recently!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    Friday PM
    Swim session with 4*400 on 6:40, all in on 6:20-25 and 3*200 on 3:15. Burned too many matches on the first one and died a death on the next two which barely made the repeat times.

    Saturday
    Off down the sticks for the weekend, so I sent herself off in the car with my bags and I cycled :D. 120+km in 4:20

    Sunday
    Up early to get out on the bike again, but a bad overnight frost meant I had to put it off until about 11. 80km in 2:50.

    So the week totaled
    10.5km swim
    320km biking
    4km running :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    Last week.....

    Monday PM
    Club swim, main set included hardish 50s followed by steady 200s. I can always tell how hard I'm working in the group swims by how much water i swallowed. A good bit in this session.

    Tuesday AM
    75min turbo, with some max sprints, and 30min steady. Nothing too hectic.

    Tuesday PM
    20min run. Booked in with the man with the tan for Wednesday morning and he told me to run before going in to him to pinpoint exactly where the pain is. Run went relatively ok, but familiar pain returned on Wednesday morning He reckons I've strained a muscle at the back of my knee, but has no idea how as its not a runners injury. Can't understand how I've managed to do it. Says its an easy fix, which leaves me a little skeptical given how long I've been out from running.

    Also got a swim set in, with 15 100s at my CSS (with 10 sec rest) based on my recent test. Having a time to hit for each rep kept me more focused for the set, and they were tough enough without ever going too deep. Good set, other than having a row with a breast-stroker who kicked off the wall ahead of me. :mad:

    Wednesday
    Nothing other than the physio appointment

    Thursday AM
    Swim session, but a poor nights sleep so I didn't push myself too hard. Main set of 2k swimming about 1:36/7 pace.

    Thursday PM
    The man with the tan told me to run again this eve, and get my thumbs in at the knee afterwards. 20min again, and I was very sore on Friday morning. Much worse than other mornings. However, the pain eased greatly during the day and I felt fine Friday evening. Need to book in again.

    Friday AM
    75min Turbo with 2*10min hardish at low revs. These hurt my poor spin loving legs.

    Friday PM

    Swim session, with a set of 200s then shorter sets of 100s on decreasing repeat times. Bailed by the end with legs on the verge of cramping, and lunch on its way north. Much more water swallowed in this set, but I was swimming very well up to that with 1400m done @ CSS and a further 400m faster than that again. Very happy with my swim week.

    Saturday
    Hill TT on the bike up Ticknock. Really wasn't feeling the love for this. Only 3 sec faster than I managed last winter which was a little disappointing, but with the HR reaching a max 10 beats lower than last year, the cold obviously played its part. Lungs on fire for the rest of the morning, and I spent the rest of the day sneezing.

    Saturday evening I picked up a nice gong at the club awards night. :D

    Sunday
    Left the awards night relatively early as Michelle was unwell, brought her to the doc on Sunday morning and she has a very bad ear infection. So I didn't managed to either get very drunk, or get out for a spin on Sunday morning :mad:. Hopped up on the turbo about 4pm for 2:15 just to have done something.

    Totals
    10850m in the pool, as I said above, very happy with my weeks work, despite bailing on the end of Fridays session
    222km on the bike, test wasn't quite what I wanted, and the lack of a proper long spin also hurt, but as it was awards night this weekend I had the weekend down as a write off anyway.
    8.75km running. A second session with the man with the tan will tell a lot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    BTH wrote: »
    Good set, other than having a row with a breast-stroker who kicked off the wall ahead of me. :mad:

    Hate when this happens! I find 90% of people are great about making way for faster swimmers, and holding back to let them through, but there's always one or two who take someone passing them as a wet glove slapped across their face. Worst I ever had was a whale doing backstroke floats- no kicking, twirling his hands for "power"- up and down the centre of the lane. Refused to move when I asked if he'd even consider going clockwise so we could share the lane, and squared up to me with fists clenched. He got a good few kicks once the swim started again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Well done on the club gong and well wear with the new steed. Good that you are doing some proper turbo. With your fast developing swim prowess it would be a shame not to battle with the fast lads you will have around you out of the water next summer ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    Kurt Godel wrote: »
    Hate when this happens! I find 90% of people are great about making way for faster swimmers, and holding back to let them through, but there's always one or two who take someone passing them as a wet glove slapped across their face. Worst I ever had was a whale doing backstroke floats- no kicking, twirling his hands for "power"- up and down the centre of the lane. Refused to move when I asked if he'd even consider going clockwise so we could share the lane, and squared up to me with fists clenched. He got a good few kicks once the swim started again.

    Very annoying alright. He got the message when he realised I was walking down the lane behind his swimming. Four lanes available in the pool, and he chooses to breaststroke in the fast lane. He moved fairly sharpish. Your guy sounds like a right arse though.
    Well done on the club gong and well wear with the new steed. Good that you are doing some proper turbo. With your fast developing swim prowess it would be a shame not to battle with the fast lads you will have around you out of the water next summer ;)

    Cheers Shotgun. Nice to knock DC off his perch! :D
    I reckon I can already bike better than most of the guys who out swim me (bar the very top guys), so I'd be hoping to be coming out of the water closer to them, and them putting some distance into them on the bike. No doubt there's plenty of others showing the same kind of improvement though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    Another week, another solid weeks training.

    Monday
    Club swim session with descending 200s off 3:20, then a set off 3:15. Tasty :D

    Tuesday
    75min turbo with sprints and steady work.

    Wednesday
    Early swim with 1500m of work at CSS & 10 sec recovery per 100. Finding the CSS work (1:32 per 100) great to keep focused on a pace for the set. Hard enough to keep my mind on the task, not too hard to leave me wrecked or start fading during the set.

    Also had a session with the man with the tan. Said to try a run on Friday....

    Thursday
    A lovely day trip to Brussels. Great :(

    Friday
    Lunch time jog, 22min or so. Tried some high thighs and heel lifts while I ran, but I'm still not pain free with them. Knee started to get a little stiffer in the afternoon at my desk, but nothing major. Certainly much better than before.

    Stretched well before swimming and had no problems during the swim, which included more 200s this time off 3:30 but done a lot harder. Times not hugely faster, but I was leading out the lane this time which makes a massive difference.

    Saturday
    None of the usual stiffness I get post run so that was a positive.

    75min turbo with some gear crunching. I don't like gear crunching. Let me spin any day.

    After a day spend being dragged round Blanch, I headed over to the NAC for a swim. But I forgot my togs :mad:

    Sunday
    Club spin 95 km in 3:30. It got colder and wetter as the morning went on and I could barely turn the key in the door when I got home. Still, apparently its good for you :rolleyes:

    Headed back to the NAC, togs in hand, determined to get my fourth swim in this week. With Christmas parties and the like coming up there will be plenty of weeks where 4 swims will be impossible. First LC swim in a long time, and coupled with the long bike that morning meant I was miles off normal pace, but good to get in just to keep the feel for the water if nothing else.

    Tried another jog in the park on the way home from the swim. Stuck to the grass/muck alongside the path to ease impact. Again, too stiff for high thighs, but my knee is fine this morning which is great.


    Weekly Totals
    Swim 10950m in 4 sessions
    Bike 182km in 2 turbos and 1 long spin, plus 30km commuting
    Run 9.95km in 2 runs.

    Great consistency with my swimming, and its paying off already.
    Bike would have been better but for the trip to Brussels, as Saturday turbo would have been done on Thursday, allowing another long bike on Saturday.
    Run is terrible :o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,454 ✭✭✭hf4z6sqo7vjngi


    Hopefully some positive signs with the knee.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    Hopefully some positive signs with the knee.

    Hopefully alright. It'll be the new year before I'm going anything more than jogging @5min pace, but thats fine by me. At least I'm moving. I'll try to get 3 runs in this week, provided theres no reaction, although they'll probably total about 75min. :o Barely counts as running :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    200s off 3:15 :eek: My CSS is 1:32 too apparently but I'd struggle to do more than a couple of 2s off 3:15!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    200s off 3:15 :eek: My CSS is 1:32 too apparently but I'd struggle to do more than a couple of 2s off 3:15!

    That set was 6*200 on 3:20 descending 1-3&4-6; 150 easy; 6*200 on 3:15 descending 1-3&4-6. Much easier to hit the times when you know you can relax for the first one and when you're at the back of a lane of 5/6. Slower ones were in on about 3:07, faster ones in around 2:59. I doubt I'd be able to hold on at those times if I was leading out the lane. I'd probably manage the 6*200 on 3:15 alright, but a little slower, and much less comfortable.


    Oh, and last night, I went 2:42 for 200m (although this time there was some drafting benefit). That was done after 4*400 and 4*50 max efforts. Nice :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pgibbo


    Cracking stuff BTH!!! Serious gains being made in the water.

    How are the Friday night sessions going?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    pgibbo wrote: »
    Cracking stuff BTH!!! Serious gains being made in the water.

    How are the Friday night sessions going?

    Cheers PG.

    The Friday sessions are going well. Theres only three of us in the lane (numbers deliberately kept down), all 3Ders, fairly similar swim levels, and have the same coach outside of swimming so its working well between the three of us and I get a good workout as I generally lead out the lane. Can be very difficult to motivate yourself for a fairly tough swim on a Friday evening though.

    Tuesday
    Lunch time run 5km 26min or thereabouts.

    Tough 85min turbo last night with 2min, 3min & 4min efforts at a lung busting, quad burning effort. Yeah, it only totals 9minutes, but it felt like an hour. Pain on the road is much easier to inflict than pain on the turbo.

    Wednesday
    3,500m swim this morning with an 1800m set as CSS. Started sluggish, but as I got into it I started going too fast, only to fade a little at the end. Good workout though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭El Director


    Hey BTH,

    Great to see you really raising the bar in the pool, congrats! There must be some seriously satisfying feeling after some of those sessions. Pity about the running but because you are keeping on top of the swimming and biking you'd be surprised at how quickly you will get back on track there too.

    TBH I have been avoiding logs lately because its a little depressing to see all the good work going on by you guys but I have decided now to use it as motivation and catching up on your log has certainly done that for me. Thanks.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 Mod ✭✭✭✭BTH


    Hey BTH,

    Great to see you really raising the bar in the pool, congrats! There must be some seriously satisfying feeling after some of those sessions. Pity about the running but because you are keeping on top of the swimming and biking you'd be surprised at how quickly you will get back on track there too.

    TBH I have been avoiding logs lately because its a little depressing to see all the good work going on by you guys but I have decided now to use it as motivation and catching up on your log has certainly done that for me. Thanks.

    Cheers ElD, yeah there's been a few times lately that I've come away from the pool feeling pretty pleased with myself. Swim fitness has come on a lot in the last month, and I can sustain the effort for much longer before the stroke starts to fall apart, and I start talking myself out of it. Hopefully I'll be able to maintain the workload into the new year. I'm not overly concerned about the running just yet. Back in with Dave on Tuesday morning, so we'll see how I am after that.

    Sorry to hear you're struggling to get going. You seemed to be ticking along nicely in November, and I would have thought the new toy would have you itching to get going.


    Thursday Morning
    I was back in the pool again, 3100m with 800 total band & buoy, 400kicking, and 5*200 at almost CSS.

    Only in work an hour yesterday when herself phones. She arrived at work, took a dizzy spell, and felt very ill. She's on a couple of antibiotics, antihistamines, and a few other things (we're best mates with the local pharmacist at this stage) to fight a very bad ear infection. So I got a taxi over to her, and brought her back to the doctor. Couple of extra meds and a sick note for a week and a half. Not much point in her sitting in an empty apartment on her own for the week, so I said I'd bring her home to her parents house yesterday evening after work. Left the apartment at 7, and I was back in the park by 10:15 for a quick 20min jog in the muck. Tired now, and the knee is feeling a little stiff, probably not helped by the 250km round trip.

    Long story short, free gaff for a week!! :D


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