Peppa Pig is evil?

pwurple

Masteroid wrote: »

Personally, I'd rather be outside kicking a ball about with the kids, you know, real life situations where teamwork and selfishness have real consequences but sadly, the parenting of most working-class kids is abdicated to Peppa Pig and the like. TV is the primary guardian of too many children and society is doomed to pay the price eventually.

I can't comment on Peppa, I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I'm wondering if your class associations are correct? I think it is middle class kids who watch TV... Those who can afford to have a parent at home full time. That parent is usually also trying to do some housework during the day, and that is a lot easier to do when the child is in the house with you. You just cannot put a toddler (which peppa is aimed at) out on the road/grass by themselves to play.

So far, both myself and husband work full time, and smallie is in creche. When we get home, one of us plays outside with her while the other makes food. As we both work, we hired a cleaner, so we are not hoovering, or ironing in our time off, we are playing. If one of us was at home during the day with her doing all that cooking, cleaning, laundry, of course we would have the TV on.

Pure annecdote, but I'm from a family where my mum didn't work until we were in school. We watched TV during the day, as did most of our friends. None of us are delinquents, no convictions, all tax payers. I don't think Tv can't take the blame for all societies woes. Most adults today watched plenty of television as children, and yet we still have adult doctors, nurses, gardai, business people etc... not quite the all encompassing army of slack-jawed lay-abouts which was predicted.

MrCreosote

Masteroid wrote: »

And Peppa Pig endorses that state of affairs - All for one, all for me. Peppa Pig is always the one and there is only one Peppa Pig.

There is a thing called the "off" button that'll allow you to control your kids' viewing of Peppa Pig. It's found on most commercially produced televisions and DVD players.

Masteroid

pwurple wrote: »

I can't comment on Peppa, I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I'm wondering if your class associations are correct? I think it is middle class kids who watch TV... Those who can afford to have a parent at home full time. That parent is usually also trying to do some housework during the day, and that is a lot easier to do when the child is in the house with you. You just cannot put a toddler (which peppa is aimed at) out on the road/grass by themselves to play.

So far, both myself and husband work full time, and smallie is in creche. When we get home, one of us plays outside with her while the other makes food. As we both work, we hired a cleaner, so we are not hoovering, or ironing in our time off, we are playing. If one of us was at home during the day with her doing all that cooking, cleaning, laundry, of course we would have the TV on.

Pure annecdote, but I'm from a family where my mum didn't work until we were in school. We watched TV during the day, as did most of our friends. None of us are delinquents, no convictions, all tax payers. I don't think Tv can't take the blame for all societies woes. Most adults today watched plenty of television as children, and yet we still have adult doctors, nurses, gardai, business people etc... not quite the all encompassing army of slack-jawed lay-abouts which was predicted.

It is interesting to note that you seem to say that you would describe yourself as working-class but from a middle-class background. Interesting in that you may be in the position to observe any difference in how 'smallie' develops that can be attributed to his/her limited exposure to TV.

But I think the 'class' thing is a bit of a red herring. Peppa Pig is successful because of its appeal to children of all classes. McDonald's and Coca-Cola are enjoyed by rich and poor people but the economics of those things favour only a few.

The point that I have been trying to make is based on two, admittedly subjective, observations. One is that Peppa Pig fuctions as an educational programme for children that are just beginning to 'use' language. (I think that 'use' of language comes before 'understanding' of language which is important in terms of the primary function of language; to convey truth.) And the other observation is that we are a culture in decline. My point is that Peppa Pig 'teaches' values to children who are forming and acquiring their first moral template and that it can be shown that such social values would tend to accelerate the rate of decline.

Now, you might want to argue that my second observation is a flaw in my reasoning and this would be important. If our culture is progressive and not in decline and Peppa Pig tends to encourage our kids along that path then we are at - Peppa Pig must therefore be a good thing and if it ain't broke etc...

But I would ask you, "Are you happy and do you know anyone who is?"

I mean really, are you 'happy' that both you and your husband work? Are you 'happy' that you have to rely on a creche that has to be paid for? Maybe your mortgage depends on it and maybe you're one of those caught in the negative equity trap?

Whether you get your information from the news, soap operas or even discussions like this, it is easy to see that society is not very well. The gap between the rich and poor is increasing. High unempoyment keeps wages down and work is hard to find. Other factors make jobs hard to keep.

The HSE.

My point is - we don't seem to be very good at loving our neighbours, do we?

So I think it is fair and safe to proceed on the basis that things are getting worse rather than better as a whole?

And I shouldn't have to point out that I'm not suggesting that Peppa Pig is going to be single-handedly responsible for the collapse of civilization but I do think that Peppa Pig could affect the generations exposed to it in a negative way that erodes our current social values.

It is true that there are many children's programmes that seem to promote smut at one end of the scale, through selfishness and pettiness and even to vengefulness and vindictiveness at the other but Peppa Pig is aimed at pre-schoolers. And Peppa Pig teaches that selfishnes and boastfulness and greed and pettiness finds favour even with Santa Claus himself.

Peppa the pig is favoured very highly. She gets all the opportunities, all the starring roles. She's always the hero and many many episodes have a 'hooray for Peppa' sequence.

What should a child who has just started to learn about actions and consequences make of that?

In response to an argument that TV doesn't really have that much influence on children I would say look at the influence it has on 'educated' adults and point out a phenomenon that I call the 'The phone lines are now open phenomenon'. X-factor, Big Brother, I'm a Celebrity, Strictly Come Dancing, the list goes on and on. How much money is spent in response to the phrase, the phone lines are now open? And I wonder how many of the callers who make calls on such a basis are in negative equity.

It is reasonable to want to try and check out whether TV, and other forms of media as well, tend to promote a healthy society or not.

For instance, on the subject of personal debt, I would ask: Is 'social conditioning' responsible for the fact that as a society we buy things we neither need nor can afford? and Who benefited from the 'unlimited credit' idea? and Was television used as a tool to 'mould' the psychology of the masses in order to exploit the inate greed and desire to have something for nothing that exists in humanity?

Once we analyse the answers to questions such as these, we are forced into coming to alarming conclusions.

In a way, the question is the same as - Did the recent economic crash come about through exploitation? And the answer to that question is an emphatic 'Yes!'. This makes the question of 'How did we get here?' much simpler because we didn't 'come' here, we were 'brought'.

In this context it is easy to see that television and the media had a direct influence on the path we 'chose' and that led us into these unfortunate times from a financial point of view.

Then we have Peppa Pig. 'They' have found a way to communicate with our children in such a way as to have an effect on the first impressions that are made upon them. And first impressions are important.

My concern is that the behaviour taught by Peppa Pig is of most value to Coca-Cola, McDonald's, Microsoft, to name but a few and credit companies would be obvious beneficiaries of the tendency to seek immediate personal satisfaction. We live in a society that promotes hedonism but punishes hedonists. This is bound to lead to problems such as personal debt and yet it is perfectly okay to encourage people to waste money on phone-in competitions or to spend two-fifty a minute on a tarot card phone-in.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not concerned about the effect tha Peppa Pig could have on my son. Essentially, I am teaching him the opposite of what Peppa Pig does. As we watch I reprimand Peppa or console George. I warn Daddy pig that he shouldn't attempt to climb that tree and say "I told you so" when he comes to grief.

But then again, I'm not the kind of idiot that would vote on X-Factor in order to try and influence which of the contestants gets to release a crap record that no can remember anymore. And tarot card phone-ins don't appeal to me either. In fact I find that whole thing reprehensible. It's ugly and 'grasping' with its long greedy twig-like fingers poking into every aspect of our lives.

The problem is that many of those who do 'phone-in' are parents and that they are very much part of the TV culture. Such parents have already succumbed to the influence of television to the extent that they are pre-disposed to submitting their children to its influence in much the same way that a religious person is happy to submit his child to indoctrination in the same faith. It is children such as these who cause me to have concerns about the effects that Peppa Pig could have.

But more than this, I believe that Peppa Pig is exposed to our children on the basis that it promotes consumerism which supports capitalism. Future shoppers used to immediate satisfaction and constant validation and who have no idea of value represent a kind of 'bonanza' to those who benefit from capitalism.

In a nutshell, I am saying that Peppa Pig, the fact that we let our children watch Peppa Pig and the fact that 'they' allow our children to be exposed to Peppa Pig are damning indictments of our modern society.

Masteroid

MrCreosote wrote: »

There is a thing called the "off" button that'll allow you to control your kids' viewing of Peppa Pig. It's found on most commercially produced televisions and DVD players.

True but the problem is that most people are happy to trust that Peppa Pig is okay on the basis that it is freely available. The danger isn't obvious and they are not looking for danger so they would neither see nor consider that the danger exists. They wouldn't consider the off button and if they did, most would press the on button in order to placate the child.

pwurple

Where the heck are you Masteroid, that you post such huge missives at 3am irish time?

I don't think I said I was working class? I said I worked. Is that the same? I'm glad we agree that class is a red herring.

And not that it is any of your business, but as well as paying the mortgage, I love my job. I get huge satisfaction from being productive. And no, we are not in negative equity, we bought our house 15 years ago, just need to pay it off.

I don't have the time to take your post apart... You seem to be blaming every perceived ill in society on television or advertising. But TV watchers are not an army of mcdonalds eating, coca cola drinking robots. There are loads of valuable television programs in existance.

dub_skav

I believe Masteroid makes some good points, but the fact that the long posts put forth a negative geopolitical worldview one part of which is purportedly driven by children's television is a little offputting for this thread due to its far reaching assumptions and consequences.

However, I do believe we should be extremely careful what our children watch in their formative years and I agree that just because something is deemed appropriate for children's television should not mean that we "trust" it.

Advertising is all pervasive these days and many companies have no scruples about what age to start.

Also, what is deemed acceptable and even role recognition is learned by children from all possible sources, TV is a major influencing factor because aside from the parents nothing else has that much access to your children.

I am a new parent and at the moment my baby watches very little TV as most time is spent at one on one interaction. But, I am constantly amazed at how quickly babies pick things up and how their brain is constantly evolving.

I don't believe that Peppa is evil, but I certainly wouldn't want my child watching too much of any 1 show.

Masteroid

pwurple wrote: »

Where the heck are you Masteroid, that you post such huge missives at 3am irish time?

I don't think I said I was working class? I said I worked. Is that the same? I'm glad we agree that class is a red herring.

And not that it is any of your business, but as well as paying the mortgage, I love my job. I get huge satisfaction from being productive. And no, we are not in negative equity, we bought our house 15 years ago, just need to pay it off.

I don't have the time to take your post apart... You seem to be blaming every perceived ill in society on television or advertising. But TV watchers are not an army of mcdonalds eating, coca cola drinking robots. There are loads of valuable television programs in existance.

You said that you thought that middle-class children, children who come from a family that can afford to have a parent stay home, are more exposed to TV than working-class children and your 'anecdote' led me to believe that you and your husband work because you can't afford to have a parent stay at home. I thought you were saying that as you both work, you are not middle-class.

About the negative equity thing... I didn't mean to pry. I was trying to make the point that we live in a very disillusioned society and this is in spite of the improvements to living conditions and unfettered access to new technology. The more we get, the happoer we ain't.

On your last point - I made no such assertion and was careful to indicate that the media was being used as a tool of mass-hypnosis and manipulation. TV is not responsible for all the ills of society but it enabled those who are responsible to polarise us into the mindset we have more efficiently.

The point I was trying to make is that Peppa Pig functions as an educational program for very young children and therefore has a responsibility to tread very carefully. There is even a 'Learn to count with Peppa Pig' release.

And to be honest, I find it disturbing, though not surprising, that there seems to be very little here by way of acknowledgement of the implications of all this.

I'm not surprised because what should one expect from a society of McDonald's eating Coca-cola drinking TV indoctrinated droids?

Something that has disturbed me about our society for a long time now is how we educate our children and the psychological dissonance that this causes. We have a government that says education is important and it is good and proper to legislate to make sure that all children have access to it through a national school system.

Which is nice. So we send our kids to school to spend in excess of thirteen years or so learning English.

Which is fine. But when the child reaches eighteen and is 'released' into society, he or she finds him- or herself in a situation where they are signing contracts that are written in a language they were never taught.

How can a government who wants our children to be supremely prepared for their lives as adults allow our children to be ambushed in this way?

Peppa Pig serves to lay down the foundations that set us up for that kind of ambush at the earliest possible age and whether or not it is the case with your situation, there are a vast number of parent for whom Peppa Pig, and television in general, functions as an auxiliary parent to their children.

It's not really very much to pick apart and it ought to give pause for thought. As a society, we probably give more consideration to what we choose to eat from a menu than we do to what our children are being 'taught'. A damning indictment of the western consumerist culture.

Masteroid

dub_skav wrote: »

I believe Masteroid makes some good points, but the fact that the long posts put forth a negative geopolitical worldview one part of which is purportedly driven by children's television is a little offputting for this thread due to its far reaching assumptions and consequences.

However, I do believe we should be extremely careful what our children watch in their formative years and I agree that just because something is deemed appropriate for children's television should not mean that we "trust" it.

Advertising is all pervasive these days and many companies have no scruples about what age to start.

Also, what is deemed acceptable and even role recognition is learned by children from all possible sources, TV is a major influencing factor because aside from the parents nothing else has that much access to your children.

I am a new parent and at the moment my baby watches very little TV as most time is spent at one on one interaction. But, I am constantly amazed at how quickly babies pick things up and how their brain is constantly evolving.

I don't believe that Peppa is evil, but I certainly wouldn't want my child watching too much of any 1 show.

Sorry, I'm a bit of a chatterbox. The problem is that I write as if I'm having a conversation and I tend to write my (at least:)) half of the chat.

The upside is that this forces me to examine my assumptions and conclusion but unfortunately the downside is that my posts are a little wordy.

I know that this is a Peppa Pig thread but it is in the context of parenting that it is being discussed and parenting is a very serious business. And never has it been more important to have some kind of 'edge' in society not least in terms of finding employment.

I would be an advocate of a national school system that had as its mission statement something along the lines of, 'We will strive to teach our fellow travellers to be happy'. Subject matter could be presented against that background and 'teaching' should be more like 'mentoring'.

A bit like how the Greeks did it but perhaps with a bit less hedonism.

I just think that if the state assumes the responsibility to care then it should at least appear to care. Can you think of any state that even appears to exhibit genuine 'care' toward the children of the masses in what it practises?

The reality is that in fact it is okay to inflict Peppa Pig on our children in spite of all the apparent safeguards that are in place and this betrays a fundamental lack of care by the state.

And really, that all there is to it. Peppa Pig is part of a slippery slope that ends at a great precipice for future generation.

I'm just saying like.

Scyther

No disrespect to any of your methods of parenting, but I think it's a bit over the top not letting kids watch TV shows such as Peppa Pig, Dora, iCarly, etc. I get that people want to protect their kids, but not allowing a child to watch something because it discourages eating vegetables or encourages them to jump in puddles is ridiculous.

What happens when they go to school? They'll be less informed than everyone else. If you don't allow them to adjust to these shows when they're young, they'll more than likely turn into one of those nervous/whiny kids (who'll probably be easily influenced by the other more assertive children anyway). I'd honestly prefer for my child to be strongly opinionated and slightly troublesome at times. If they jump in a few puddles now and then, I'll get over it.

I'm all for limiting TV and restricting unsuitable shows because nobody wants a lazy waster or an annoying brat, but banning shows designed specifically for kids is a bit of a joke.

part time punk

I'm pretty sure kids liked jumping in muddy puddles long before Peppa pig was invented.

IvySlayer

I find Peppa Pig annoying when I babysit my niece.

Handy Manny and Special Agent Oso rock though.

Masteroid

Scyther wrote: »

No disrespect to any of your methods of parenting, but I think it's a bit over the top not letting kids watch TV shows such as Peppa Pig, Dora, iCarly, etc. I get that people want to protect their kids, but not allowing a child to watch something because it discourages eating vegetables or encourages them to jump in puddles is ridiculous.

What happens when they go to school? They'll be less informed than everyone else. If you don't allow them to adjust to these shows when they're young, they'll more than likely turn into one of those nervous/whiny kids (who'll probably be easily influenced by the other more assertive children anyway). I'd honestly prefer for my child to be strongly opinionated and slightly troublesome at times. If they jump in a few puddles now and then, I'll get over it.

I'm all for limiting TV and restricting unsuitable shows because nobody wants a lazy waster or an annoying brat, but banning shows designed specifically for kids is a bit of a joke.

And on what basis should TV be restricted? For instance, should pre-schoolers be exposed to a show that they can understand which teaches that selfishness and greed are constantly indulged? Or a show that positively validates bad behaviour? Should shows that encourage or teach bad behaviour where that bad behaviour would require correction on some level or at some stage by parents on the one hand or other authority on the other be allowed to be aired at all?

Children need to be taught to share and not to be selfish. They need to be taught to be thrifty and not to be gluttons. These are the things we need in our society. Our children need to learn about things like respect and manners and that discipline and hard work are the only true path to success that is available to most of us.

You might not object to the fact that they make shows that would tend to dengrade the social development of our children and many do not but like I said, that is a damning indictment of our society.

You should care. Everyone should. They've turned us all into cattle that exist only to nourish the likes of Simon Cowell and Peppa Pig prepares the newest generation for submission to the same fate.

Only when Peppa Pig is viewed as detrimental to children will it be evident that society is waking up to the dangers for the future of society. I just hope that it isn't too late.

Masteroid

part time punk wrote: »

I'm pretty sure kids liked jumping in muddy puddles long before Peppa pig was invented.

Everyone likes jumping up and down in muddy puddles.

pwurple

Masteroid wrote: »

And really, that all there is to it. Peppa Pig is part of a slippery slope that ends at a great precipice for future generation.

I'm just saying like.

You're on the button there, it is a slippery slope argument, and it has the same flaws as every other slippery slope, thin end of wedge, camels nose argument. You're just plain overstating it by a country mile.

I am just back from a walk, where I saw one of the local heroin addict mothers try go from pub to pub, tying to get someone to watch her baby in a buggy, at 10pm, so she could go get fixed up. I know the family well enough. The dad is in jail, mother is an addict. Peppa pig saying silly daddy is not what is going to cause this child to be a future delinquent. Their life is already written.

In short, worrying about the possible sinister content of a program watched by middle class children about muddy puddles and sharing, while their mum gets ten minutes to do the dishes, is to my mind, first world problem.

Hannibal Smith

I bet there are some people here who have never watched an episode of peppa pig.

She is not always the heroine, there is not always a 'hurrah' for peppa ending. There are frequently...'oh peppa!' moments. Like when her friend says she talks too much, or when she crashes in to daddy pig's pumpkin, when she's too rough with George or when she tries to leave George out and others correct her for it.

The undertone of the cartoon is, behave and be nice, and peppa is frequently being corrected for not doing either. There's also a theme of, as long as no one is hurt there's no need for panic.

Daddy pig is the sweetest role model. He is kind, fun and works hard. People who say he's made a fool of have maybe seen a glimpse of an episode. He's a very funny and clever character and always has the right thing to say. He always fixes situations when peppa and George feel bad. Like the pumpkin episode, or the talking too much episode. Though some of the times he does silly things, they're the times my son laughed the hardest.

I don't know what kind of class bracket we fit into. But peppa pig was always something we all watched together and got a giggle out of.

Masteroid

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I bet there are some people here who have never watched an episode of peppa pig.

She is not always the heroine, there is not always a 'hurrah' for peppa ending. There are frequently...'oh peppa!' moments. Like when her friend says she talks too much, or when she crashes in to daddy pig's pumpkin, when she's too rough with George or when she tries to leave George out and others correct her for it.

The undertone of the cartoon is, behave and be nice, and peppa is frequently being corrected for not doing either. There's also a theme of, as long as no one is hurt there's no need for panic.

Daddy pig is the sweetest role model. He is kind, fun and works hard. People who say he's made a fool of have maybe seen a glimpse of an episode. He's a very funny and clever character and always has the right thing to say. He always fixes situations when peppa and George feel bad. Like the pumpkin episode, or the talking too much episode. Though some of the times he does silly things, they're the times my son laughed the hardest.

I don't know what kind of class bracket we fit into. But peppa pig was always something we all watched together and got a giggle out of.

I saw those episodes. The 'Chatterbox' episode kicks off with Peppa being ignorant to Suzy Sheep and the punchline of the episode is 'It's good to talk'. Yeah? Well it's good to not be ignorant too. I already spoke about the 'Pumpkin' episode.

There is another episode where Peppa accuse Suzy of cheating at snap which causes them to fall out. In the end, Suzy apologises effectively for being maligned.

And how many picnics must Daddy pig miss out on because Peppa promised his portion to the ducks?

The message is clear - selfishness and greed is how you get results.

Masteroid

pwurple wrote: »

You're on the button there, it is a slippery slope argument, and it has the same flaws as every other slippery slope, thin end of wedge, camels nose argument. You're just plain overstating it by a country mile.

I am just back from a walk, where I saw one of the local heroin addict mothers try go from pub to pub, tying to get someone to watch her baby in a buggy, at 10pm, so she could go get fixed up. I know the family well enough. The dad is in jail, mother is an addict. Peppa pig saying silly daddy is not what is going to cause this child to be a future delinquent. Their life is already written.

In short, worrying about the possible sinister content of a program watched by middle class children about muddy puddles and sharing, while their mum gets ten minutes to do the dishes, is to my mind, first world problem.

You rather make my point. Apart from you, how many other people turned a blind eye to the plight of that heroin addict's child? It's no wonder that you and the majority see Peppa Pig as benign. This is the society that we have built where actual harm is ignored. Of course no-one will tackle the root causes.

Changing society requires us to get our hands dirty but the squeaky clean PC members of society are not prepared to do that are they?

Oh, and my mother managed to get the washing up done without any help from the likes of Peppa Pig. Nor a dishwasher, nor an automatic washing machine...

pwurple

Masteroid wrote: »

You rather make my point. Apart from you, how many other people turned a blind eye to the plight of that heroin addict's child? It's no wonder that you and the majority see Peppa Pig as benign. This is the society that we have built where actual harm is ignored. Of course no-one will tackle the root causes.

Changing society requires us to get our hands dirty but the squeaky clean PC members of society are not prepared to do that are they?
.

You are something else with these demented assumptions. Why have you made the assumption I did nothing? I know the local PHN and popped in when I saw her light on, on the way home. The HSE are on the case, and have been for some time, and the gardai were notified. christ almighty. Accusing me of ignoring child abuse is way WAY out of line.

Some people.

Forget peppa. Kids see all sorts of horrible things in actual real life. That's what you need to climb up onto your high horse about.

January

I think this thread is going around in circles now. Some people like Peppa, some don't. Discussion over.