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super_furry

Nearly every single game makes some kind of political statement whether you realise it or not. From playing as eco-terrorists in Final Fantasy VII to the unspoken support of the American military's aggressive and expansionist foreign policy in almost every 'modern' shooter to whatever the hell was going on in Metal Gear, politics are everywhere in videogames.

Cordell

Yermande wrote: »

That's a different matter entirely.

It was my point all along, let me explain myself a bit better: I wasn't speaking about games that have some political leaning in their plot and stories, but about the s***storms on the internet about them, and review bombing and all than nonsense. The backlash Kingdom Come got because they didn't include diverse NPCs and the one that Wolfenstein The New Colossus got because they had blacks fighting nazis and Far Cry 5 because they had white christian religious fanatics as antagonists.
This, and not only in gaming, led to a very toxic environment in which the gamedevs must be extremely careful with their creativity in order to avoid backlash from either side (and sometimes both).

johnny_ultimate

Cordell wrote: »

The ones that forgot to enjoy gaming.

This is a silly claim.

Like in any medium, you’ll often find critics are the ones who most enjoy and are most passionate about games. Yes, approaching a game from a more critical perspective may highlight things one doesn’t like, but it more often enhances one’s appreciation of what it does well too.

To me it’s satisfying to dig into a game and figure out what works and doesn’t work about it. Sure, it often highlights things I don’t like - sometimes that’s a view or perspective I don’t agree with, or feel has been badly handled. But I sure as hell don’t ‘not enjoy games’. I just feel approaching them uncritically is a shallow and unsatisfying way of playing them, and in many cases does a disservice to the game itself.

Varik

Cordell wrote: »

It was my point all along, let me explain myself a bit better: I wasn't speaking about games that have some political leaning in their plot and stories, but about the s***storms on the internet about them, and review bombing and all than nonsense. The backlash Kingdom Come got because they didn't include diverse NPCs and the one that Wolfenstein The New Colossus got because they had blacks fighting nazis and Far Cry 5 because they had white christian religious fanatics as antagonists.
This, and not only in gaming, led to a very toxic environment in which the gamedevs must be extremely careful with their creativity in order to avoid backlash from either side (and sometimes both).

You missed a step with Far cry 5, it then came out and the other side got angry because the antagonists weren't white supremacist.

johnny_ultimate

Cordell wrote: »

It was my point all along, let me explain myself a bit better: I wasn't speaking about games that have some political leaning in their plot and stories, but about the s***storms on the internet about them, and review bombing and all than nonsense. The backlash Kingdom Come got because they didn't include diverse NPCs and the one that Wolfenstein The New Colossus got because they had blacks fighting nazis and Far Cry 5 because they had white christian religious fanatics as antagonists.
This, and not only in gaming, led to a very toxic environment in which the gamedevs must be extremely careful with their creativity in order to avoid backlash from either side (and sometimes both).

Ah well there are certainly issues with the ‘culture wars’ - I do think this is quite different from your initial statement that ‘political statements have no place in gaming’

You’ll find no disagreement here about a toxic environment in many online gaming discussions. Still, don’t think that should dissuade or discourage developers from saying what they want to say in the games themselves, or sensible critics from speaking up about concerns they have with any given game.

super_furry

Cordell wrote: »

It was my point all along, let me explain myself a bit better: I wasn't speaking about games that have some political leaning in their plot and stories, but about the s***storms on the internet about them, and review bombing and all than nonsense. The backlash Kingdom Come got because they didn't include diverse NPCs and the one that Wolfenstein The New Colossus got because they had blacks fighting nazis and Far Cry 5 because they had white christian religious fanatics as antagonists.
This, and not only in gaming, led to a very toxic environment in which the gamedevs must be extremely careful with their creativity in order to avoid backlash from either side (and sometimes both).

Why? This 'backlash' did little to hurt the success of either of those games you mention and all three of them are good games in their own right - even if Far Cry 5 has the worst final boss battle of any game I've played in the last decade.

Really all I can you see you being unhappy about is the fact that internet people are unhappy. Fcuk them.

Cordell

I am unhappy because it's hard to find any gaming discussions that don't go into that kind of talks instead of discussing the game itself.

J Mysterio

Yermande

Cordell wrote: »

I am unhappy because it's hard to find any gaming discussions that don't go into that kind of talks instead of discussing the game itself.

I think that's fair. Personally, I enjoy reviews that explore the themes and politics of games, what they mean or are trying to say as works of art. However there's room also for the more 'old-fashioned' reviews that dig deeper into gameplay, technical performance, framerate etc. US Gamer is an example of a well-written, nuts and bolts approach to game reviews.

Dyr

Gaming has always been political and by "political" we mean anyone involved in making games had to constantly police themselves and their work to avoid being denounced by the woke NKVD or risk having their careers wrecked


It has always been thus and anyone who says otherwise is a bigot.

Robert ninja

@super_furry
It's easy for us the consumers to ignore them but the businesses don't. Granted it's rare they will do anything beyond respond on social media or change something small like to the case art or Cage changing his "ok" sign to "up yours" in MK but with these perpetually-offended it's never enough. Plus self-censorship is more of an issue than post-release changes.

Kotaku has a visual novel with sexual themes review up where their staff gets so upset that it's sexualising cute anime characters that he starts justifying censorship and contacting the publishers. Said journo also has this tattoo: https://twitter.com/Bunnyspatial/status/1125538776573517826
But being hypocrites isn't new when it comes to fake outrage.

super_furry

Christ. Do you ever stop with the Gamergate crap?

Robert ninja

Do game journos and wikipedia ever stop with their anti-gamergate crap? Until then, no.

On a lighter note

https://twitter.com/arthurpbs/status/1124033764664008705

pixelburp

Video games can't have it both ways: it can't claim to be this grown up medium everyone should take seriously yet somehow tell mature tales, with mature themes, without engaging in the very biases, viewpoints or topics that literally form the human adult experience. You can't square that circle, least of all any game with a creative director channeling that desire for commentary.

It's well and good lamenting the innocent days of yore when games were childish things of blue skies and collecting gems, but if we open the door to grown-up games, then we must accept that grown-up subject matter - with all the perspectives that'll tumble alongside - will become part of the medium. Ditto the desire to debate or discuss the intent of the work, this is not a new thing in the world of popular media.

If the "games are art" statement holds any truth , then this is where games are; this was where they were always headed, the moment those kids of the 70s, 80s and 90s grew up and wanted to tell stories of human experience, not with film or novels or comics - but through games.

Plenty of space for superficial entertainment, but it can coexist, or indeed encompass, other layers.

SomeSayKos

My favourite gaming site/YouTube channel is Easy Allies. They used to be the old Gametrailers staff. They make really good content and their reviews are excellent. They have a really positive discourse on games and they're nice oasis of calm and jolly vibes.

Exclamation Marc

Zero Punctuation is the best for the most accurate, balanced and on point journalism

K.O.Kiki

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Zero Punctuation is the best for the most accurate, balanced and on point journalism

Yahtzee doesn't like anything and I'm not even sure how much he plays through his reviewed games.

Azza

Yahtzee is great fun.....until he slates a game you love. Then he's poo :pac:

Shiminay

Randy Pitchford has always come across as a bit of a sleveen to me, so none of this is surprising.

Robert ninja

This thread's theme song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BmuPUiYAX8

Varik

SomeSayKos wrote: »

My favourite gaming site/YouTube channel is Easy Allies. They used to be the old Gametrailers staff. They make really good content and their reviews are excellent. They have a really positive discourse on games and they're nice oasis of calm and jolly vibes.

Like them too, more than likely it's just Brandon Jones voice (like the opposite of Jim sterling).

Retr0gamer

I find them pretty poor just like gametrailers was. Far too enthusiastic about games and not enough criticism. Just seems a bit unprofessional. You end up with hyperbole filled reviews of the big games like their god of war review championing the game as the next step forward for the entire industry. It's a good game but come on.

gizmo

Shiminay wrote: »

Randy Pitchford has always come across as a bit of a sleveen to me, so none of this is surprising.

There'll always be an Alien shaped hole in my trust of anything Pitchford says but Eddings doesn't come across great in the Claptrap VO issue. He initially made it out like he just wanted to get paid for his work which, on the basis he no longer works for Gearbox, is perfectly reasonable. But now we find out he didn't just want to get paid, he rejected double the scale rate according to Pitchford, he wanted royalties from the previous games instead. He then re-frames that as being willing to do the work for "free" which it most certainly isn't.

As an aside, the SAG-AFTRA rate for VO work in games appears to be $850.25 for a four hour day so we're talking about non-trivial sums of money here.

On an unrelated note, looks like the Riot crew in Dublin have done their own walkout in solidarity with their US-based colleagues...

https://twitter.com/EmeraldSatyr/status/1125750479357718528

CatInABox

EA Access finally comes to PS4 in July

https://twitter.com/EAAccess/status/1125783922003009542

Having had this on Xbox for a while now, it's a great deal. It's basically stopped me from buying any EA game, and just waiting it out.

marcbrophy

CatInABox wrote: »

EA Access finally comes to PS4 in July

https://twitter.com/EAAccess/status/1125783922003009542

Having had this on Xbox for a while now, it's a great deal. It's basically stopped me from buying any EA game, and just waiting it out.

Wonder if they'll give us a cross platform sub on the cheap? :P

SomeSayKos

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I find them pretty poor just like gametrailers was. Far too enthusiastic about games and not enough criticism. Just seems a bit unprofessional. You end up with hyperbole filled reviews of the big games like their god of war review championing the game as the next step forward for the entire industry. It's a good game but come on.

I think generally their reviews are pretty balanced. I personally thought God Of War was very overrated, but if the reviewer had a different view of the game then that's just how it goes.

Different strokes for different folks!

SomeSayKos

Varik wrote: »

more than likely it's just Brandon Jones voice (like the opposite of Jim sterling).

I can't watch Jim Sterling videos. His voice is like nails on a blackboard plus his whole shtick at the start with his costume just seems a bit naff to be honest. I think he makes some good points a lot of the time, but he's always perpetually annoyed by something which is grand and has its place but I've really gone off these personalities who have made a career out of being annoyed at stuff.

I'm mellowing out in my old age

Jerichoholic

SomeSayKos wrote: »

My favourite gaming site/YouTube channel is Easy Allies. They used to be the old Gametrailers staff. They make really good content and their reviews are excellent. They have a really positive discourse on games and they're nice oasis of calm and jolly vibes.

They were fairly cringe at E3 making themselves fill the screen with their "reactions" and having the conferences seem less important than their hilarious hot takes.

Put me right off them.

J. Marston

Jim is alright in very small doses. Couldn't be watching his outrage daily but hearing him vent once in a while is fun.