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Pope giving out about those pesky gays again

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24

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    #32
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    soterpisc wrote: »
    Congrats.. But the statics don't live up to your post.

    Can you show us the statistics?


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    #33
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    soterpisc wrote: »
    Are they better than the natural family unit?
    Do they have to be better? :confused:

    How have you come to the conclusion that same sex parents are worse than parents of the opposite sex?


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    #34
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    soterpisc wrote: »
    Congrats.. But the statics don't live up to your post. Those who society has most failed have first been failed by their families (or lack of). The Pope is promoting the family (Mother+Father+Kids) as the ideal best environment. there is nothing wrong with this.

    Nothing wrong with promoting family at all. But this ideal that a family is Mother+Father+Child is wrong.

    A child raised by a Mother+Mother or Father+Father turns out the same as a child raised by a Mother+Father in the same environment.

    Now, if the pope wants to advise against two teenagers or a couple who've just met having children, well that's fine, because in many cases the parents will not stay together, and that -can- cause troubles for the child, but not in a major way.

    Now the Pope is suggesting a Mother+Father family. But what if one of the parents is abusive, an alcoholic or so on? Does the Church think they should separate?
    NO! They don't! Because the RCC disagrees with divorce and separation of the family.

    But don't worry, it's okay because they're straight!

    Open your eyes.

    soterpisc wrote: »
    Are they better than the natural family unit?

    Who said anything about them being better?
    The point people are making is they are the same.


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    #35
    alex73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Can you show us the statistics?

    Sure i live the statistics day in day out... I am not saying 2 lesbians can't raise a child, 2 loving people can. But the ideal enviroment if possible is to have a mother and father who are involved in the childs life. Anyone who denies that the natural family is blind ( and as much as gays lobby they can never naturally have kids, the pope didn't invent that rule).


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    #36
    Thomas Eshuis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Thomas Eshuis


    soterpisc wrote: »
    As a social worker myself I can say (Religion and God aside) that those worst off in society many times come from failed families that have absent fathers or alcoholic ones.

    You do realise that there are many single parent families that function just fine?
    Each Child does need (if possible) a Mother and and a Father in their lifes. Not having a Father or a Mother (or sometimes both) present in a childs life does have negative effects...... This is not based on relgion but reality. Pope is stating the obvious..
    This is false, from the American Psychological Association:
    In summary, social science has shown that the concerns often raised about children of lesbian and gay parents—concerns that are generally grounded in prejudice against and stereotypes about gay people—are unfounded. Overall, the research indicates that the children of lesbian and gay parents do not differ markedly from the children of heterosexual parents in their development, adjustment, or overall well-being.

    As you can see, there's is no evidence for your assertion.


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    #37
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    alex73 wrote: »
    Sure i live the statistics day in day out... I am not saying 2 lesbians can't raise a child, 2 loving people can. But the ideal enviroment if possible is to have a mother and father who are involved in the childs life. Anyone who denies that the natural family is blind ( and as much as gays lobby they can never naturally have kids, the pope didn't invent that rule).
    And there are plenty of gay parents and children of gay parents who ''live the statistics'' day in and day out, and the results differ greatly to yours.

    Why is two parents of the opposite sex the ideal environment? What are you actually basing this on?


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    #38
    alex73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    Sonics2k wrote: »



    Who said anything about them being better?
    The point people are making is they are the same.

    society would have us believe gay families are the same, but they are not.

    However from personal experience lesbian couples do make better parents the gay couples, but that was because the ones i know one of the parners is the natural mother


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    #39
    Thomas Eshuis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Thomas Eshuis


    soterpisc wrote: »
    Are they better than the natural family unit?

    What natural family unit?
    You do realise that with many animal species only one of the parents raises the children?

    Again you're arguing against evidence and experts.


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    #40
    alex73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    MagicMarker wrote: »

    Why is two parents of the opposite sex the ideal environment? What are you actually basing this on?

    About 90% of humanity.


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    #41
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Prejudice is way better than expert opinions, Thomas. :pac:


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    #42
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    Is that a dual account or has alex just jumped in at a weird moment...?

    MrP


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    #43
    alex73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    Thomas Eshuis wrote: »
    What natural family unit?
    You do realise that with many animal species only one of the parents raises the children?

    Again you're arguing against evidence and experts.

    Was waiting for when we could be compared to a animal...


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    #44
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    alex73 wrote: »
    Was waiting for when we could be compared to a animal...

    Psst, we are animals.. just very smart ones.


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    #45
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    alex73 wrote: »
    Was waiting for when we could be compared to a animal...
    We are a fcuking animals.

    mrP


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    #46
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    alex73 wrote: »
    society would have us believe gay families are the same, but they are not.

    However from personal experience lesbian couples do make better parents the gay couples, but that was because the ones i know one of the parners is the natural mother

    Society would have us believe this because it is true. It's exactly how I was raised, and frankly, compared to one or two of my friends raised by straight couples, my own childhood was much much better.

    Please remember, that for a portion of the 20th Century, people in America claimed a child raised by an interracial couple would not have the same privileges as a child raised by a couple of the same background.


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    #47
    alex73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    MrPudding wrote: »
    We are a fcuking animals.

    mrP

    Yeah... Thats how the holocaust started.


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    #48
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Good point, sonic.. and it's the same kind of people making the argument against same sex couples these days.


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    #49
    Thomas Eshuis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Thomas Eshuis


    alex73 wrote: »
    and as much as gays lobby they can never naturally have kids, the pope didn't invent that rule).

    They can, just because one of the parents is not part of the family does not mean the child is born via unnatural ways.
    You completely ignore the fact that marriage is a social construct not a natural one.
    Many animal species raise their offspring using only one of either parents.
    Better yet, many have 1 male adult who fertilises several females.


    The natural factor is irrelevant. What matters is if the kids are raised protected and healthy, which they can, both by single parents and parents of the same gender.


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    #50
    alex73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭alex73


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Society would have us believe this because it is true. It's exactly how I was raised, and frankly, compared to one or two of my friends raised by straight couples, my own childhood was much much better.

    Please remember, that for a portion of the 20th Century, people in America claimed a child raised by an interracial couple would not have the same privileges as a child raised by a couple of the same background.

    Why are we talking about race?


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    #51
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    alex73 wrote: »
    Yeah... Thats how the holocaust started.

    nope, that was more to do with economic factors, but nice try. Oh and Hitler blamed the jews on germanys loss in WW1.


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    #52
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Oh, and seeing as we're mentioning animals.

    There's what, some 200 kind of animal that have homosexual relationships. I guess it must be completely natural.

    That or God made a mistake...


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    #53
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    alex73 wrote: »
    Yeah... Thats how the holocaust started.
    I'm sorry; I am a little bit slow tonight. I am afraid you will have to clarify how humans being animals started the holocaust. :confused:

    MrP


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    #54
    Thomas Eshuis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Thomas Eshuis


    alex73 wrote: »
    About 90% of humanity.

    Really, you must be busy with Facebook all day, knowing 90% of humanity.


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    #55
    Thomas Eshuis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Thomas Eshuis


    RichieC wrote: »
    Prejudice is way better than expert opinions, Thomas. :pac:

    Of course, how could I forget :rolleyes:


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    #56
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    alex73 wrote: »
    Yeah... Thats how the holocaust started.

    Nope.

    That was mostly based on Economic issues and exploitation of Religious persecution.


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    #57
    gawker
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭gawker


    alex73 wrote: »
    ... the ideal enviroment if possible is to have a mother and father who are involved in the childs life. Anyone who denies that the natural family is blind ( and as much as gays lobby they can never naturally have kids, the pope didn't invent that rule).

    Nobody is trying to take kids away from loving families and give them to gay people,so your point is rather mute. I was raised by a loving parents who were married and am happy, many of my friends were raised by single parents and they turned out brilliantly. The idea being floated, however, that gay couples should not be allowed to apply to adopt children in need of a home is what is wrong.

    Here is a study from the American Academy of Pediatrics which finds same sex parents (lesbian couples for this study) raise kids fine. In fact, their kids on average done better than other kids in may areas although we can let that slide ;)

    The point is, people should be treated equally and so should families, even if they do not meet the favoured model of the Vatican or any other religious leader.


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    #58
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    BAN ECONOMICS!


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    #59
    Thomas Eshuis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭Thomas Eshuis


    alex73 wrote: »
    Was waiting for when we could be compared to a animal...

    To use your figure of speech:
    Anyone who denies he's an animal is blind.


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    #60
    Plautus
    Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Plautus


    Well. This thread went south very quickly after all the funny Pope pictures

    I mean we're already in Godwin territory *sigh*


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    #61
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,713 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    alex73 wrote: »
    Why are we talking about race?

    what's wrong? the parallels making you uncomfortable?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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