Why do athiests commit suicide at such a high rate compared to religous people

Galvasean

partyatmygaff wrote: »

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?Volume=161&page=2303&journalID=13

Taken straight from the abstract:



No further comment. I'm not here to take sides or debate with anyone so please don't drag me in to a debate. I just remembered reading something about what the OP mentioned for an assignment I had a weeks ago and decided to add something to the thread. It's an interesting read.

^^ If the OP had have posted that initially we'd probably be a long way further into proceedings.

Turtwig

richymcdermott wrote: »

:pac:

Troll Slayer? :pac:

ResearchWill

passarellaie wrote: »

Both look at this site
www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=13737&cn=9

This paragraph "Religiosity seems to have a protective effect against suicide. Exactly which religion(s), during what ages/developmental periods, and among which ethnicities remain unanswered questions. Many of the studies of the relationship between religion and suicide have been too small, contradictory, or flawed to make overall conclusions. However, research suggests that in the United States, areas with higher percentages of individuals without religious affiliation have correspondingly higher suicide rates. Involvement with a religion may provide a social support system, a direct way to cope with stressors, a sense of purpose and/or hope, and may lead to a stronger belief that suicide is wrong. Religiosity also seems to be related to other demographic factors; religious North Americans are much less likely than nonreligious people to abuse drugs/alcohol and to divorce (which are both associated with increased suicide risk)."

It says studys are small and contradictory, that quote.

passarellaie

Lucy8080 wrote: »

im not annoyed. i want u to explain. i respect all positions.

but...in here...athiests mock what religion cant explain. i think thats the fault of religion.


and i think u add to these faults.

whats ur justification for this?

i know people that have been burdened,confused, and downright depressed by religion. i cant say for certain...but i would guess for sure that religious apocalyptic views drove them over the edge.

because they were sane when i was growing up with them.

so explain. im listening.

suicide is not a place for religious point scoring...

its something we need to understand....and if religion is implicated...alongside some social issues...

religion needs to hold up its hands.

if it was as honest as it claims to be.

ill pull ya this one pass'....i can guaruantee i know more of religion and its ills than u.

u tell me ur religion....and ill pull u apart on what u have been fed.

ill play if u will.

I would say you have many issues.I dont play this is more serioius than that.I have my faith and am very happy and content with it.I contend humans are extremely limited people whose understanding of life is miniscule.The notion that I could prove to you that God exists or that you could prove to me she doesnt is plainly ridiculous and my view many of the people on here are extremely stupid and arrogant at poking fun at religion.My views are just as valid as yours and the notion of me taking your views apart one by one while you do the same to me is pathetic.
I agree many religions have been dictators as have atheistic states but to knock someone else views is outragous.
My question is a challenge to people on this forums view and nothing more.I certainly didnt want to upset you or anyone else but if people insist on insulting me I am not one of the turn the other chhek people which is sad for me I agree.
Sleep well and apolgies if I offended

Broads.ie

I can't believe you n00bs have fallen into the troll's trap. Four pages of this shyte already!

passarellaie

Broads.ie wrote: »

I can't believe you n00bs have fallen into the troll's trap. Four pages of this shyte already!

Indeed your arrogance sums up my point perfectly thanks

Turtwig

passarellaie wrote: »

Broads.ie wrote: »

I can't believe you n00bs have fallen into the troll's trap. Four pages of this shyte already!

Indeed your arrogance sums up my point perfectly thanks

Looks like you fell into to the deepest pit of it.;)

ResearchWill

passarellaie wrote: »

I would say you have many issues.I dont play this is more serioius than that.I have my faith and am very happy and content with it.I contend humans are extremely limited people whose understanding of life is miniscule.The notion that I could prove to you that God exists or that you could prove to me she doesnt is plainly ridiculous and my view many of the people on here are extremely stupid and arrogant at poking fun at religion.My views are just as valid as yours and the notion of me taking your views apart one by one while you do the same to me is pathetic.
I agree many religions have been dictators as have atheistic states but to knock someone else views is outragous.
My question is a challenge to people on this forums view and nothing more.I certainly didnt want to upset you or anyone else but if people insist on insulting me I am not one of the turn the other chhek people which is sad for me I agree.
Sleep well and apolgies if I offended

Where have I or anyone else poked fun of your religion, in fact I know not what your religion is. All I have asked you to do is provide evidence of your claim. Your claim may very well be correct, but unless I can see what you see how can I know. I have linked to a number of articles on the issue, I have given my own opinion on those and your one posting.

That is debate, if you don't want to debate, that's fine, if you believe what you belie that's great. But you came on here, you asked me to listen to you, you asked people to accept your statement. We then asked no more than you give us some evidence.

Turtwig

passarellaie wrote: »

I would say you have many issues.I dont play this is more serioius than that.I have my faith and am very happy and content with it.I contend humans are extremely limited people whose understanding of life is miniscule.The notion that I could prove to you that God exists or that you could prove to me she doesnt is plainly ridiculous and my view many of the people on here are extremely stupid and arrogant at poking fun at religion.My views are just as valid as yours and the notion of me taking your views apart one by one while you do the same to me is pathetic.
I agree many religions have been dictators as have atheistic states but to knock someone else views is outragous.
My question is a challenge to people on this forums view and nothing more.I certainly didnt want to upset you or anyone else but if people insist on insulting me I am not one of the turn the other chhek people which is sad for me I agree.
Sleep well and apolgies if I offended

You see here is the thing. All viewpoints are not equally valid. Is the person's who believes the sky to be a pink damsel in distress view more valid than the7 year old child who believes the sky to be blue? You come onto the forum of your free will, if you don't like having your posts scrutinised then it's simple : Don't post!. You want to challenge people, yet you barely know the first steps in how to produce an argument, I mean no disrespect here, but your time would be better spent reading into how to produce discourse and argument with others. It may have practical benefits for you in real life, let alone virtual internet debates or dialectics. Perhaps, someday, you'll realise just how woeful your original post was and feel a little silly about it.

ResearchWill

"In 2002 the American Journal of Epidemiology published a study by Dr. Sterling C. Hilton showing that active Latter-day Saints are 7 times less likely to commit suicide than their surrounding peer population. (See: "High Religious Commitment Linked to Less Suicide", describing the study from American Journal of Epidemiology)."

Think I'll become a latter-day saint, study shows 7 times less likely. BTW taken from here http://www.adherents.com/misc/religion_suicide.html

Lucy8080

hi pass,

stick with me and dont back out.

i will not go for ya...im just asking u to explain. and i have also asked u for ur religion.

now sometimes people tell me they are christian...when they knock on my door...but with a bit of gentle questioning i find they are a paticular denomination of christian.

so thanks for ur honesty on this...now...recipricate...

whats ur religion?


p.s. some of ur assumptions on my position and beliefs are wrong...

but im not gonna help u out. because those assumptions suit ur position.

no apologies for what u started... just answer honestly.

p.p.s.

dont tell me i have issues...that suits ur position too.

p.p.p.s.

judge not...and all that jazz..

opinion guy

passarellaie wrote: »

You are an arrogant overbearing person who doesnt want to hear other peoples opinions
What do you think lads? yes the old gang up on the poor fool I guess thats what happened quite a bit in Eastern Europe in the fifties and sixties you would have been at home there I imagine.

ahaha ur funny. Can we keep him lads ? I'll feed him and everything ??

The notion there are no secular countries is plainly ridiculous.In places like North Korea religion is punishable by death but you wouldnt want to hear that would you but you are good at getting away from the discussion i will gramnt youi that with your gang instincts

Christopher Hitchens said of North Korea that it is the most religious country he has ever been to with Kin Jong Il as the deity. Didn't you see them wailing on the TV ? They are as religious as they come.

Jernal wrote: »

Secularism is the idea that the day to running of the state bodies and government should be free of religious dogmas. Any idea that needs to be discussed for legislature should be discussed in a language common to people of all faiths and no faith at all. Saying you disagree or agree because it's your belief has no place in a rational secular society you have to explainwhy something is good or bad.

See you sire are annoying me. The Op contended that people in secular countries committed suicide more often because they were all atheist. He made the logical fallacy of assuming that either all the people commuting suicide were aethist or the secular country was populated entirely of aethists. I decided to play on the absurdity of this by bringing his fallacy to its logical conclusion - there are no secular countries because they all have some religious people in them.

You in all your autisticness have decided that you need to pull me up and preach to me about basic definitions. I know what friggin secular means. I am playing with the troll. What are you missing ? I'm sorry did I not place enough smiley winks and nods and roll eyes in my posts to tip you off to the sarcasm ????? Christ even the troll knows I was being facetious

Secularism does not require people to be non religious or atheist. The U.S is wholly secular.

The US is as secular as the guy sitting in the oval office:

GW Bush wrote:

"Freedom is on the march in this world. I believe everybody in the Middle East desires to live in freedom. I believe women in the Middle East want to live in a free society. I believe mothers and fathers want to raise their children in a free and peaceful world. I believe all these things, because freedom is not America's gift to the world, freedom is the almighty God's gift to each man and woman in this world."
--Speech in Pennsylvania, October 22, 2004


"The cause we serve is right, because it is the cause of all mankind. The momentum of freedom in our world is unmistakable--and it is not carried forward by our power alone. We can trust in that greater power who guides the unfolding of the years. And in all that is to come, we can know that His purposes are just and true."
--State of the Union Address, January 20, 2004

"Religion is an important part. I never want to impose my religion on anybody else. But when I make decisions I stand on principle. And the principles are derived from who I am. I believe we ought to love our neighbor like we love ourself. That's manifested in public policy through the faith-based initiative where we've unleashed the armies of compassion to help heal people who hurt. I believe that God wants everybody to be free. That's what I believe. And that's one part of my foreign policy. In Afghanistan I believe that the freedom there is a gift from the Almighty. And I can't tell you how encouraged how I am to see freedom on the march. And so my principles that I make decisions on are a part of me. And religion is a part of me."
--Third Presidential Debate, Tempe, AZ, October 13, 2004

"I wouldn't pick a judge who said that the Pledge of Allegiance couldn't be said in a school because it had the words 'under God'' in it. I think that's an example of a judge allowing personal opinion to enter into the decision-making process, as opposed to strict interpretation of the Constitution."
--Second Presidential Debate, St. Louis, October 8, 2004

"I believe that God wants me to be president."
--According to Richard Land, as quoted in ""Understanding the President and his God"

"We need common-sense judges who understand our rights were derived from God,"
--As quoted in ""Understanding the President and his God"

"May He guide us now. And may God continue to bless the United States of America.
--State of the Union Address, January 28, 2003

Our nation must defend the sanctity of marriage. The outcome of this debate is important--and so is the way we conduct it. The same moral tradition that defines marriage also teaches that each individual has dignity and value in God's sight."
--State of the Union Address, January 20, 2004

"I believe it is in the national interest that government stand side-by-side with people of faith who work to change lives for the better. I understand in the past, some in government have said government cannot stand side-by-side with people of faith. Let me put it more bluntly, government can't spend money on religious programs simply because there's a rabbi on the board, cross on the wall, or a crescent on the door. I viewed this as not only bad social policy -- because policy by-passed the great works of compassion and healing that take place -- I viewed it as discrimination."
--Speech in Washington D.C., June 1, 2004

I repeat: secular my ass

kerplunkit

magicbastarder wrote: »

simple. suicide is a mortal sin. atheists don't face damnation for committing suicide, so it's easier for them.

wow, i really hope i'm misreading the intentions of this post, but what of the theist homosexuals who have taken their own lives due to tortuous non-acceptance, what of muslim women who kill themselves in order to not disgrace their families......that sounds so easy

ShooterSF

I'd like to re-iterate this poster's fine post.

dlofnep wrote: »

Playing devil's advocate here, but suppose the (unreferenced) claim were to be statistically valid, it still wouldn't prove or disprove that atheism itself is a valid stance to take on the existence of a Deity. So I don't see what relevance it really has.

But in anycase - All member states of the EU are secular. Give me that over the likes of Nigeria or Saudi Arabia anyday of the week.

OP, assuming you are correct then I have no factual answer though I could probably offer a theory or two but what's the point? I am an atheist because I value truth and living life in reality and as best as I can figure reality it is without a deity. If that makes me statistically a sadder person or more likely to off myself well then so be it. I'm not going to live a lie to comfort myself.

Not that I expect an answer to this but why did you ask your question? You hardly expected us to have done secret research on the issue and were just dying to be asked for the data... Did you?

opinion guy wrote: »

The US is as secular as the guy sitting in the oval office:


I repeat: secular my ass

Psst, nearly 2012. He hasn't been there for quite some time :P

Dave!

Why are dudes with moustaches more likely to be dictators?

Standman

who says atheism makes people happy in themselves?

Rev Hellfire

Having read some of the posts in the Christianity, Islamic and Paganism forums I can understand why some people may want to kill themselves.

philologos

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Having read some of the posts in the Christianity, Islamic and Paganism forums I can understand why some people may want to kill themselves.

???

seamus

I was going to make a big post about this and how suicide is too complicated and ill-reported to draw any solid facts from anything, but the OP's cavalier attitude to citing has made me not want to bother wasting my time.

There is a much simpler way to explain the correlation (assuming it exists).

On the whole people with a higher IQ are more likely to be atheists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

The authors reported a correlation of 0.60 between atheism rates and level of intelligence, which was determined to be “highly statistically significant”

Similarly, there is a link between IQ and depression/suicide.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/evolutionary-psychology/message/28570

National IQ was signicantly positively related to the national male and female suicide rate.

(Weakest citations I've ever used, but I'm not wasting time finding anything better)

Therefore logically, if atheists tend to be more intelligent and intelligent people are more likely to commit suicide, then atheists are more likely to commit suicide.

What does this tell us? Nothing we don't already know: That ignorance is bliss.

Avatarr

Why do athiests commit suicide at such a high rate compared to religous people
If you guys are so happy in yourselves why is this an established fact
 


As a neutral, I have read the thread from start to finish, there is not one shred of evidence to support your claim.

Advice - next time, before you put up a highly emotive thread, with a subject matter that, unfortunately a lot of people have been touched by, do you research.

dead one

Q: Why do athiests commit suicide at such a high rate compared to religous people
A: because they don't believe in afterlife

robindch

passarellaie wrote: »

Why do athiests commit suicide at such a high rate compared to religous people

While religious preachers continually claim that lack of a belief, particularly amongst the young, in one or more deities causes increased rates of suicide (typically caused by a "lack of hope"), the little research that's been carried out in this area suggests that no correlation exists between religiosity and suicide.

Gregory Paul wrote:

Unlike questionable small-scale epidemiological studies by Harris et al. and Koenig and Larson, higher rates of religious affiliation, attendance, and prayer do not result in lower juvenile-adult mortality rates on a cross-national basis.

On the contrary:

Gregory Paul wrote:

In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion in the prosperous democracies

Gregory Paul's full study resides here:

http://moses.creighton.edu/jrs/2005/2005-11.pdf

The religious preachers who claim that atheism causes suicide are -- shock, horror! -- dishonest.

5uspect

Invoking the power of the OP.

God doesn't exist, FACT!*

*source google.com

ShooterSF

dead one wrote: »

Q: Why do athiests commit suicide at such a high rate compared to religous people
A: because they don't believe in afterlife

Pure gold. If not for your religious beliefs that would just be at best a very illogical statement but given the evidence that people have been willing to kill themselves for special treatment in the afterlife all I can say is bravo!

RichieC

philologos wrote: »

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Having read some of the posts in the Christianity, Islamic and Paganism forums I can understand why some people may want to kill themselves.

???

they are the worst forums on boards full to the brim with horse****.

Sonics2k

RichieC wrote: »

they are the worst forums on boards full to the brim with horse****.

You've been avoiding After Hours then :pac:

philologos

RichieC wrote: »

they are the worst forums on boards full to the brim with horse****.

I don't see what your opinion about God's existence or lack thereof has to do with people committing suicide. That would be a disgraceful comparison without any basis.

I believe there must be something else behind his post.

Sonics2k

philologos wrote: »

I don't see what your opinion about God's existence or lack thereof has to do with people committing suicide. That would be a disgraceful comparison without any basis.

I believe there must be something else behind his post.

You mean like the OP?

philologos

partyatmygaff provided research to suggest that this was true. Not sure if this link refers to the same study that was linked to. It seems to be statistically true that there is a higher rate of suicide amongst non-believers than believers globally.

The OP did come across in an antagonistic manner, and this is an incredibly sensitive topic, but this seems to be true.

M5

Im an Athiest and I want to kill myself after reading this rubbish!