Why do athiests commit suicide at such a high rate compared to religous people

passarellaie

If you guys are so happy in yourselves why is this an established fact

RichieC

cite or stfu.

efb

passarellaie wrote: »

If you guys are so happy in yourselves why is this an established fact

We're not afraid of eternal damnation????

michael999999

Link??

dlofnep

passarellaie wrote: »

If you guys are so happy in yourselves why is this an established fact

And your evidence for this is? Also - being an atheist doesn't make someone happy or sad. A stable job, family, good living conditions, friends... these make people happy. It's irrelevant if the person is religious or atheist.

dlofnep

And seriously, what is it with the stupid questions on here as of late?

sebastianlieken

Did you really think we'd just take you're word for it like that? Athiesm... we tend to ask questions and generally like "established facts" to be substantiated.

RichieC

its post history is fun.

ResearchWill

Why I people who follow a religion murder more, BTW I can back up my claim,

Regarding homicide rates, Oablo Fajnzylber et al., in a study reported in the Journal of Law and Economics (2002), looked at thirty-eight non-African nations and found that the ten with the highest homicide rates were highly religious, with minimal or statistically insignificant levels of organic atheism. Conversely, of the ten nations with the lowest homicide rates, all but Ireland were secular nations with high levels of atheism. James Fox and Jack Levin, in The Will to Kill, looked at thirty-seven non-African nations and found that, of the ten nations with the highest homicide rates, all but Estonia and Taiwan were highly religious, with statistically insignificant levels of organic atheism. Conversely, of the ten nations with the lowest homicide rates, all but Ireland and Kuwait were relatively secular nations, with high levels of organic atheism.

From here http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=pzuckerman_26_5 which also deals with many other issues including suicide

Turtwig

passarellaie wrote: »

If you guys are so happy in yourselves why is this an established fact

Taking your premise on nothing but ahem good faith I'd say it's because the world is full of religious fundamentalist dimwits who do their utmost to make planet earth an intolerant hell hole for just about everyone else religious or not.

nozzferrahhtoo

I almost..... and I really mean almost.... I mean I had the post written and did not submit it....... made a post on the "Is Darwinism the religion of atheists?" thread but I thought better of it....

but now after reading THIS thread OP I will not think twice.

The post I was going to write on ""Is Darwinism the religion of atheists?"" thread was:

Are you trying to prove the "Trolling Tide Turning? God-people trolling" thread right or what?

Lucy8080

maybe religion missed its mark. maybe atheists were honest enough to question lies...lao tse and jesus said their messages would be misunderstood.

maybe in the struggle for honesty, religion crushed them with their heaping of guilt and shame for daring to question what to them seemed impossible standards to live up to...and impossible to escape from because of early induction.

religion needs to ask this question of itself...because you are the guys of forgiveness,peace understanding and love....

now go understand what part u play in this ...and provide an answer.

passarellaie

Jernal wrote: »

Taking your premise on nothing but ahem good faith I'd say it's because the world is full of religious fundamentalist dimwits who do their utmost to make planet earth an intolerant hell hole for just about everyone else religious or not.

the American journal of Psychiatry
Wikipedia
mentalhelp.net
psychiatryonline.org

ResearchWill

passarellaie wrote: »

the American journal of Psychiatry
Wikipedia
mentalhelp.net
psychiatryonline.org

You don't really get this citation thing do you. You see you are making the statement, so you put up the evidence. You don't ask other posters to do your research for you. See my post above, it is really simple, you quote a bit to set up your argument, then you link to the article. As a certain insurance web site would say "simples".

18AD

So you should believe in any god to decrease your chances of self-termination?

We have a huge chart of entities to choose from, but you must pick at least one!

passarellaie

ResearchWill wrote: »

You don't really get this citation thing do you. You see you are making the statement, so you put up the evidence. You don't ask other posters to do your research for you. See my post above, it is really simple, you quote a bit to set up your argument, then you link to the article. As a certain insurance web site would say "simples".

Dont shoot the messenger if Im wrong which is extremely doubtful so be it but why not face the realities

Lucy8080

faith passeralie is an easy thing. we could take comfort in roman or greek gods .

questioning is not so easy.

ur o.p. is lazy and ignorant.

magicbastarder

simple. suicide is a mortal sin. atheists don't face damnation for committing suicide, so it's easier for them.

Tigger

ok

i've known 4 people who killed themselves
all were not recorded as suicide so they could be buried in hallowed ground.

there is a culture of pretending that the many many road deaths that happen at late o'clock in the morning where lads crash into walls at the end of
straight roads are accidents to save face and get them into heaven.

while the idea you can "game" the rules of god appeals to me i don't believe that accurate figures are avaliable for the op's premise.

Captain Chaos

magicbastarder wrote: »

, so it's easier for them.

Wow, just wow.

It's not easy for anyone, even the person doing it. When a person gets into that state of mind, I'm fairly sure religious beliefs, if they hold any, don't feature much in their following actions.

Owen

You never really see an Athiest strapping a load of semtex to his chest and blowing up a square of bystanders though, do you?

ResearchWill

passarellaie wrote: »

Dont shoot the messenger if Im wrong which is extremely doubtful so be it but why not face the realities

When did I shoot the messenger, in fact according to you I'm more likely to shoot myself. I would gladly face the realities, if you showed me some.

For example if you used the following article http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/Mobile/article.aspx?Volume=161&page=2303&journalID=13

I would reply that the above article is flawed in many areas,1 it's a study of sucide attempts, the number of persons in the study is too small, 3 the geographic spread is too small. I could go on. So again I will ask you to put forward some evidence to back up your claim.

It's easy to make claims without evidence, I claim that parish priests are more likely to molest children than coal miners.

Lucy8080

apologise and close thread o.p.

u will get respect for it.

the dear leader of north korea had a show of faith and respect this week.

maybe "atheists" despair at such images.

maybe some north koreans keep themselves going on such faith.

maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle.

maybe suicide victims are not fair game.some have been mentally or physically abused by religion.


maybe they declared themselves athiest before they went....and left religion of the hook.

passarellaie

ResearchWill wrote: »

When did I shoot the messenger, in fact according to you I'm more likely to shoot myself. I would gladly face the realities, if you showed me some.

For example if you used the following article http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/Mobile/article.aspx?Volume=161&page=2303&journalID=13

I would reply that the above article is flawed in many areas,1 it's a study of sucide attempts, the number of persons in the study is too small, 3 the geographic spread is too small. I could go on. So again I will ask you to put forward some evidence to back up your claim.

It's easy to make claims without evidence, I claim that parish priests are more likely to molest children than coal miners.

I have shown you four links and its also well known that so called secular countries have a much higher suicide rate.
As for parish priests and coal miners I dont think there were so many kids allowed down the mines so its an unfair opportunities comparison isnt it

Turtwig

passarellaie wrote: »

I have shown you four links and its also well known that so called secular countries have a much higher suicide rate.
As for parish priests and coal miners I dont think there were so many kids allowed down the mines so its an unfair opportunities comparison isnt it

At this I would contend that so called secular countries have better means of monitoring and reporting suicide. But, I really think you missed Will's point about the kids in the mine.

nozzferrahhtoo

18AD wrote: »

So you should believe in any god to decrease your chances of self-termination?

Not so sure here...... after all the main "big 10" commandments from some of the religions are about "false gods".

Theres that whole commandment about "no false gods before me" and all that

Which makes me think that if god exists he is MORE and i mean MORE worried about you worshipping the WRONG god that no god at all.

So just by a cursory reading of the 10 commandments its safer to be an atheist than a theist of the wrong religion

Nate--IRL--

passarellaie wrote: »

I have shown you four links

You have not.

Nate

opinion guy

passarellaie wrote: »

I have shown you four links and its also well known that so called secular countries have a much higher suicide rate.
As for parish priests and coal miners I dont think there were so many kids allowed down the mines so its an unfair opportunities comparison isnt it

No you have named four sources, each of which contains vast amounts of resources on myriad topics. Which precise bits of information are you talking about ? We'll never find them if you don't point them out.

What secular countries (I can't think of any such country)? Well known by whom ? Please provide links to back this up too.

ResearchWill

passarellaie wrote: »

I have shown you four links and its also well known that so called secular countries have a much higher suicide rate.
As for parish priests and coal miners I dont think there were so many kids allowed down the mines so its an unfair opportunities comparison isnt it

You have given the web address to 4 web sites, one of which is Wikipedia, enough said there. I have asked you to link yo specific articles, so that I and others can see is what you are saying correct. If it is then so be it we can discuss why. If on the other hand after rigorous debate your statement is proved to be incorrect then so be it.

According to many of the worlds great thinkers the world was flat, and was the centre of the universe. But after debate we discovered religion got that one wrong. So put up or shut up.

Turtwig

ResearchWill wrote: »

According to many of the worlds great thinkers the world was flat, and was the centre of the universe. But after debate we discovered religion got that one wrong. So put up or shut up.

NO IT DIDN'T!!

Lucy8080

whats ur religion pass'...the one without an ounce of understanding or compassion...

just let us know so that we can avoid it...

some folks here are trying to move on from point scoring over tragedies of human suffering.

passarellaie

ResearchWill wrote: »

You have given the web address to 4 web sites, one of which is Wikipedia, enough said there. I have asked you to link yo specific articles, so that I and others can see is what you are saying correct. If it is then so be it we can discuss why. If on the other hand after rigorous debate your statement is proved to be incorrect then so be it.

According to many of the worlds great thinkers the world was flat, and was the centre of the universe. But after debate we discovered religion got that one wrong. So put up or shut up.

If you are too lazy to check out what I said so be it.As for secular countries Lithuania,Hungary,Russia,Sweden,etc with extraordinarily high rates.
Maybe its you who is thinking the World is flat right now and simply indulgeing in "wishful" thinking

Seth Brundle

Owen wrote: »

You never really see an Athiest strapping a load of semtex to his chest and blowing up a square of bystanders though, do you?

In fairness, I've never seen a suicide bomber (atheist or otherwise) blow up a square of bystanders. I think most people who do, don't get to discuss it afterwards!

passarellaie

Lucy8080 wrote: »

whats ur religion pass'...the one without an ounce of understanding or compassion...

just let us know so that we can avoid it...

some folks here are trying to move on from point scoring over tragedies of human suffering.

Nobody has a monopoly of suffering in this World.I made a point which seems to have annoyed you considerably. i didnt set out to annoy but to challenge.My views have been challenged by peopple on here brutally over a long period,when the boot is ion the other foot I lack understanding and compassion!!!!!.Perhaps you should look at your own point of view before savageing someone with a different viewpoint.Or do you have the monopoly on being right

Turtwig

passarellaie wrote: »

If you are too lazy to check out what I said so be it.As for secular countries Lithuania,Hungary,Russia,Sweden,etc with extraordinarily high rates.
Maybe its you who is thinking the World is flat right now and simply indulgeing in "wishful" thinking

Hang on, I checked it out and saw that Lithuania was predominantly Catholic. . .

opinion guy

passarellaie wrote: »

If you are too lazy to check out what I said so be it.As for secular countries Lithuania,Hungary,Russia,Sweden,etc with extraordinarily high rates.
Maybe its you who is thinking the World is flat right now and simply indulgeing in "wishful" thinking

All of those countries have religious people in them. Therefore - not secular

dlofnep

passarellaie wrote: »

I have shown you four links and its also well known that so called secular countries have a much higher suicide rate.
As for parish priests and coal miners I dont think there were so many kids allowed down the mines so its an unfair opportunities comparison isnt it

You haven't shown diddly squat. You've made a claim, and have not provided a reference to the said claim. Posting some random links, are not references. If you tried that on a college essay, you'd get zero points.

passarellaie

opinion guy wrote: »

All of those countries have religious people in them. Therefore - not secular

For crying out loud China has millions of religous people so there isnt a secular country is that what you are saying.The reality is these East European countries in particular were Athiest based where religion if not prohibited was only tolerated in ones own house

Turtwig

opinion guy wrote: »

All of those countries have religious people in them. Therefore - not secular

Um, it all depends on the structure of their government and their constitutions. Nothing to do with how many people are religious or not. Well that is the definition of secularism, but most people tend to think it means something else. Just to be clear. The U.S and Turkey are secular states. Even though both have some of the worst crackpot fundies in living memory. Fear not! Mr Camping will be right someday. Ok, no. He probably won't. Ireland is also a secular state, whereas the United Kingdom is not.

Galvasean

passarellaie wrote: »

If you are too lazy to check out what I said so be it.

If you are too lazy to back up your dubious looking claims in your opening gambit then why should others be expected to take your points seriously?

Seth Brundle

passarellaie wrote: »

Nobody has a monopoly of suffering in this World.I made a point which seems to have annoyed you considerably. i didnt set out to annoy but to challenge.My views have been challenged by peopple on here brutally over a long period,when the boot is ion the other foot I lack understanding and compassion!!!!!.Perhaps you should look at your own point of view before savageing someone with a different viewpoint.Or do you have the monopoly on being right

You made reference to an "established fact" that athiests commit suicide at a high rate when compared to religious people but have not provided one shred of evidence to support your claim (and I would not include a few domain names whereby you expect readers of your thread to research your point as evidence).
Maybe if you support your claims, people may believe you but at the moment, this thread fails; big time!

RichieC

passarellaie wrote: »

opinion guy wrote: »

All of those countries have religious people in them. Therefore - not secular

For crying out loud China has millions of religous people so there isnt a secular country is that what you are saying.The reality is these East European countries in particular were Athiest based where religion if not prohibited was only tolerated in ones own house

so is your argument that athiests commit suicide more or citizens of secular countries?

opinion guy

passarellaie wrote: »

For crying out loud China has millions of religous people so there isnt a secular country is that what you are saying.The reality is these East European countries in particular were Athiest based where religion if not prohibited was only tolerated in ones own house

Yup China has millions of religious people in it and is not truly secular. There are no truly secular countries that's exactly what I'm saying.

So these East European countries had oppression in them ? Really you don't say ? I wonder if oppression leads to suicide ? What do you think lads ?


OP, thanks for playing, but with you're post there you've just revealed you are actually capable of logical thought and that you are in fact a troll. My my I wish Jackson would make another Trilogy and keep you trolls employed. Idle hands are the devils work and all of that. Which religion do trolls follow anyhow ?

dlofnep

Playing devil's advocate here, but suppose the (unreferenced) claim were to be statistically valid, it still wouldn't prove or disprove that atheism itself is a valid stance to take on the existence of a Deity. So I don't see what relevance it really has.

But in anycase - All member states of the EU are secular. Give me that over the likes of Nigeria or Saudi Arabia anyday of the week.

Turtwig

opinion guy wrote: »

Yup China has millions of religious people in it and is not truly secular. There are no truly secular countries that's exactly what I'm saying.

I think you completely misunderstand the whole concept of secularism. I can only point you in the direction of the moderator of the Christianity forum who himself is a self avowed secularist and probably wouldn't be a fan of your exclusion of him from secularism.

passarellaie

RichieC wrote: »

so is your argument that athiests commit suicide more or citizens of secular countries?

Both look at this site
www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=13737&cn=9

opinion guy

Jernal wrote: »

Um, it all depends on the structure of their government and their constitutions. Nothing to do with how many people are religious or not. Well that is the definition of secularism, but most people tend to think it means something else. Just to be clear. The U.S and Turkey are secular states. Even though both have some of the worst crackpot fundies in living memory. Fear not! Mr Camping will be right someday. Ok, no. He probably won't. Ireland is also a secular state, whereas the United Kingdom is not.

Since you know, nations don't commit suicide individuals do, I think the fact that there are no truly 100% secular countries is kind of relevant here.

Also, US secular my whole

Lucy8080

im not annoyed. i want u to explain. i respect all positions.

but...in here...athiests mock what religion cant explain. i think thats the fault of religion.


and i think u add to these faults.

whats ur justification for this?

i know people that have been burdened,confused, and downright depressed by religion. i cant say for certain...but i would guess for sure that religious apocalyptic views drove them over the edge.

because they were sane when i was growing up with them.

so explain. im listening.

suicide is not a place for religious point scoring...

its something we need to understand....and if religion is implicated...alongside some social issues...

religion needs to hold up its hands.

if it was as honest as it claims to be.

ill pull ya this one pass'....i can guaruantee i know more of religion and its ills than u.

u tell me ur religion....and ill pull u apart on what u have been fed.

ill play if u will.

dlofnep

Just so we are clear - secularism means that the state establishes it's laws, without the interference from any religion. It doesn't have anything to do with the religious preference of the population of that said state.

Seth Brundle

passarellaie wrote: »

Both look at this site
www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=13737&cn=9

That site says "Religiosity seems to have a protective effect against suicide"

Where is the evidence of an "established fact" that you mentioned in your first post?

Also one piece if research does not constitute evidence.

partyatmygaff

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?Volume=161&page=2303&journalID=13

Taken straight from the abstract:

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

No further comment. I'm not here to take sides or debate with anyone so please don't drag me in to a debate. I just remembered reading something about what the OP mentioned for an assignment I had a weeks ago and decided to add something to the thread. It's an interesting read.