Why do athiests commit suicide at such a high rate compared to religous people

passarellaie · 30-12-2011 2:03am

ResearchWill wrote: »

You have given the web address to 4 web sites, one of which is Wikipedia, enough said there. I have asked you to link yo specific articles, so that I and others can see is what you are saying correct. If it is then so be it we can discuss why. If on the other hand after rigorous debate your statement is proved to be incorrect then so be it.

According to many of the worlds great thinkers the world was flat, and was the centre of the universe. But after debate we discovered religion got that one wrong. So put up or shut up.

If you are too lazy to check out what I said so be it.As for secular countries Lithuania,Hungary,Russia,Sweden,etc with extraordinarily high rates.
Maybe its you who is thinking the World is flat right now and simply indulgeing in "wishful" thinking

Seth Brundle · 30-12-2011 2:06am

Owen wrote: »

You never really see an Athiest strapping a load of semtex to his chest and blowing up a square of bystanders though, do you?

In fairness, I've never seen a suicide bomber (atheist or otherwise) blow up a square of bystanders. I think most people who do, don't get to discuss it afterwards!

passarellaie · 30-12-2011 2:07am

Lucy8080 wrote: »

whats ur religion pass'...the one without an ounce of understanding or compassion...

just let us know so that we can avoid it...

some folks here are trying to move on from point scoring over tragedies of human suffering.

Nobody has a monopoly of suffering in this World.I made a point which seems to have annoyed you considerably. i didnt set out to annoy but to challenge.My views have been challenged by peopple on here brutally over a long period,when the boot is ion the other foot I lack understanding and compassion!!!!!.Perhaps you should look at your own point of view before savageing someone with a different viewpoint.Or do you have the monopoly on being right

Turtwig · 30-12-2011 2:07am

passarellaie wrote: »

If you are too lazy to check out what I said so be it.As for secular countries Lithuania,Hungary,Russia,Sweden,etc with extraordinarily high rates.
Maybe its you who is thinking the World is flat right now and simply indulgeing in "wishful" thinking

Hang on, I checked it out and saw that Lithuania was predominantly Catholic. . .

opinion guy · 30-12-2011 2:08am

passarellaie wrote: »

If you are too lazy to check out what I said so be it.As for secular countries Lithuania,Hungary,Russia,Sweden,etc with extraordinarily high rates.
Maybe its you who is thinking the World is flat right now and simply indulgeing in "wishful" thinking

All of those countries have religious people in them. Therefore - not secular

dlofnep · 30-12-2011 2:09am

passarellaie wrote: »

I have shown you four links and its also well known that so called secular countries have a much higher suicide rate.
As for parish priests and coal miners I dont think there were so many kids allowed down the mines so its an unfair opportunities comparison isnt it

You haven't shown diddly squat. You've made a claim, and have not provided a reference to the said claim. Posting some random links, are not references. If you tried that on a college essay, you'd get zero points.

passarellaie · 30-12-2011 2:11am

opinion guy wrote: »

All of those countries have religious people in them. Therefore - not secular

For crying out loud China has millions of religous people so there isnt a secular country is that what you are saying.The reality is these East European countries in particular were Athiest based where religion if not prohibited was only tolerated in ones own house

Turtwig · 30-12-2011 2:11am

opinion guy wrote: »

All of those countries have religious people in them. Therefore - not secular

Um, it all depends on the structure of their government and their constitutions. Nothing to do with how many people are religious or not. Well that is the definition of secularism, but most people tend to think it means something else. Just to be clear. The U.S and Turkey are secular states. Even though both have some of the worst crackpot fundies in living memory. Fear not! Mr Camping will be right someday. Ok, no. He probably won't. Ireland is also a secular state, whereas the United Kingdom is not.

Galvasean · 30-12-2011 2:12am

passarellaie wrote: »

If you are too lazy to check out what I said so be it.

If you are too lazy to back up your dubious looking claims in your opening gambit then why should others be expected to take your points seriously?

Seth Brundle · 30-12-2011 2:12am

passarellaie wrote: »

Nobody has a monopoly of suffering in this World.I made a point which seems to have annoyed you considerably. i didnt set out to annoy but to challenge.My views have been challenged by peopple on here brutally over a long period,when the boot is ion the other foot I lack understanding and compassion!!!!!.Perhaps you should look at your own point of view before savageing someone with a different viewpoint.Or do you have the monopoly on being right

You made reference to an "established fact" that athiests commit suicide at a high rate when compared to religious people but have not provided one shred of evidence to support your claim (and I would not include a few domain names whereby you expect readers of your thread to research your point as evidence).
Maybe if you support your claims, people may believe you but at the moment, this thread fails; big time!

RichieC · 30-12-2011 2:13am

passarellaie wrote: »

opinion guy wrote: »

All of those countries have religious people in them. Therefore - not secular

For crying out loud China has millions of religous people so there isnt a secular country is that what you are saying.The reality is these East European countries in particular were Athiest based where religion if not prohibited was only tolerated in ones own house

so is your argument that athiests commit suicide more or citizens of secular countries?

opinion guy · 30-12-2011 2:14am

passarellaie wrote: »

For crying out loud China has millions of religous people so there isnt a secular country is that what you are saying.The reality is these East European countries in particular were Athiest based where religion if not prohibited was only tolerated in ones own house

Yup China has millions of religious people in it and is not truly secular. There are no truly secular countries that's exactly what I'm saying.

So these East European countries had oppression in them ? Really you don't say ? I wonder if oppression leads to suicide ? What do you think lads ?

OP, thanks for playing, but with you're post there you've just revealed you are actually capable of logical thought and that you are in fact a troll. My my I wish Jackson would make another Trilogy and keep you trolls employed. Idle hands are the devils work and all of that. Which religion do trolls follow anyhow ?

dlofnep · 30-12-2011 2:16am

Playing devil's advocate here, but suppose the (unreferenced) claim were to be statistically valid, it still wouldn't prove or disprove that atheism itself is a valid stance to take on the existence of a Deity. So I don't see what relevance it really has.

But in anycase - All member states of the EU are secular. Give me that over the likes of Nigeria or Saudi Arabia anyday of the week.

Turtwig · 30-12-2011 2:17am

opinion guy wrote: »

Yup China has millions of religious people in it and is not truly secular. There are no truly secular countries that's exactly what I'm saying.

I think you completely misunderstand the whole concept of secularism. I can only point you in the direction of the moderator of the Christianity forum who himself is a self avowed secularist and probably wouldn't be a fan of your exclusion of him from secularism.

passarellaie · 30-12-2011 2:17am

RichieC wrote: »

so is your argument that athiests commit suicide more or citizens of secular countries?

Both look at this site
www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=13737&cn=9

opinion guy · 30-12-2011 2:18am

Jernal wrote: »

Um, it all depends on the structure of their government and their constitutions. Nothing to do with how many people are religious or not. Well that is the definition of secularism, but most people tend to think it means something else. Just to be clear. The U.S and Turkey are secular states. Even though both have some of the worst crackpot fundies in living memory. Fear not! Mr Camping will be right someday. Ok, no. He probably won't. Ireland is also a secular state, whereas the United Kingdom is not.

Since you know, nations don't commit suicide individuals do, I think the fact that there are no truly 100% secular countries is kind of relevant here.

Also, US secular my whole

Lucy8080 · 30-12-2011 2:18am

im not annoyed. i want u to explain. i respect all positions.

but...in here...athiests mock what religion cant explain. i think thats the fault of religion.

and i think u add to these faults.

whats ur justification for this?

i know people that have been burdened,confused, and downright depressed by religion. i cant say for certain...but i would guess for sure that religious apocalyptic views drove them over the edge.

because they were sane when i was growing up with them.

so explain. im listening.

suicide is not a place for religious point scoring...

its something we need to understand....and if religion is implicated...alongside some social issues...

religion needs to hold up its hands.

if it was as honest as it claims to be.

ill pull ya this one pass'....i can guaruantee i know more of religion and its ills than u.

u tell me ur religion....and ill pull u apart on what u have been fed.

ill play if u will.

dlofnep · 30-12-2011 2:19am

Just so we are clear - secularism means that the state establishes it's laws, without the interference from any religion. It doesn't have anything to do with the religious preference of the population of that said state.

Seth Brundle · 30-12-2011 2:20am

passarellaie wrote: »

Both look at this site
www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=13737&cn=9

That site says "Religiosity seems to have a protective effect against suicide"

Where is the evidence of an "established fact" that you mentioned in your first post?

Also one piece if research does not constitute evidence.

partyatmygaff · 30-12-2011 2:21am

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?Volume=161&page=2303&journalID=13

Taken straight from the abstract:

RESULTS: Religiously unaffiliated subjects had significantly more lifetime suicide attempts and more first-degree relatives who committed suicide than subjects who endorsed a religious affiliation. Unaffiliated subjects were younger, less often married, less often had children, and had less contact with family members. Furthermore, subjects with no religious affiliation perceived fewer reasons for living, particularly fewer moral objections to suicide. In terms of clinical characteristics, religiously unaffiliated subjects had more lifetime impulsivity, aggression, and past substance use disorder. No differences in the level of subjective and objective depression, hopelessness, or stressful life events were found.

No further comment. I'm not here to take sides or debate with anyone so please don't drag me in to a debate. I just remembered reading something about what the OP mentioned for an assignment I had a weeks ago and decided to add something to the thread. It's an interesting read.

opinion guy · 30-12-2011 2:21am

dlofnep wrote: »

Just so we are clear - secularism means that the state establishes it's laws, without the interference from any religion. It doesn't have anything to do with the religious preference of the population of that said state.

It would be alot easier to counter-troll here if you guys would stop helping him :rolleyes:

RichieC · 30-12-2011 2:22am

passarellaie wrote: »

RichieC wrote: »

so is your argument that athiests commit suicide more or citizens of secular countries?

Both look at this site
www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=13737&cn=9

weird that link keeps redirecting my phone to a 12 year old boards post by Devore talking about Quake

ResearchWill · 30-12-2011 2:22am

passarellaie wrote: »

If you are too lazy to check out what I said so be it.As for secular countries Lithuania,Hungary,Russia,Sweden,etc with extraordinarily high rates.
Maybe its you who is thinking the World is flat right now and simply indulgeing in "wishful" thinking

Please point to my stating your statement is incorrect. I do not know if it is because you have made a bald assertion. Is the sucide rate a little higher is it twice is it a hundred times. I don't know because you won't tell me. I may be very happy to agree with you once I know exactly what you are saying. Or I may disagree with you, but until I know exactly what and why YOU are saying it I can't argue with you.

passarellaie · 30-12-2011 2:23am

opinion guy wrote: »

Yup China has millions of religious people in it and is not truly secular. There are no truly secular countries that's exactly what I'm saying.

So these East European countries had oppression in them ? Really you don't say ? I wonder if oppression leads to suicide ? What do you think lads ?

OP, thanks for playing, but with you're post there you've just revealed you are actually capable of logical thought and that you are in fact a troll. My my I wish Jackson would make another Trilogy and keep you trolls employed. Idle hands are the devils work and all of that. Which religion do trolls follow anyhow ?

You are an arrogant overbearing person who doesnt want to hear other peoples opinions
What do you think lads? yes the old gang up on the poor fool I guess thats what happened quite a bit in Eastern Europe in the fifties and sixties you would have been at home there I imagine.
The notion there are no secular countries is plainly ridiculous.In places like North Korea religion is punishable by death but you wouldnt want to hear that would you but you are good at getting away from the discussion i will gramnt youi that with your gang instincts

passarellaie · 30-12-2011 2:24am

RichieC wrote: »

weird that link keeps redirecting my phone to a 12 year old boards post by Devore talking about Quake

ha ha it doesnt on mine but I guess you wouldnt want to find out anyway

Turtwig · 30-12-2011 2:24am

opinion guy wrote: »

Since you know, nations don't commit suicide individuals do, I think the fact that there are no truly 100% secular countries is kind of relevant here.

Also, US secular my whole

Secularism is the idea that the day to running of the state bodies and government should be free of religious dogmas. Any idea that needs to be discussed for legislature should be discussed in a language common to people of all faiths and no faith at all. Saying you disagree or agree because it's your belief has no place in a rational secular society you have to explainwhy something is good or bad.

Secularism does not require people to be non religious or atheist. The U.S is wholly secular.

Corkfeen · 30-12-2011 2:26am

passarellaie wrote: »

Both look at this site
www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=13737&cn=9

Note how the comments point out the fact there is no citations or statistics in the piece so hardly a reliable source of info....

dlofnep · 30-12-2011 2:27am

passarellaie wrote: »

You are an arrogant overbearing person who doesnt want to hear other peoples opinions
What do you think lads? yes the old gang up on the poor fool I guess thats what happened quite a bit in Eastern Europe in the fifties and sixties you would have been at home there I imagine.
The notion there are no secular countries is plainly ridiculous.In places like North Korea religion is punishable by death but you wouldnt want to hear that would you but you are good at getting away from the discussion i will gramnt youi that with your gang instincts

Let me get this straight - You come onto this forum, with intent to provoke the posters, making a claim of something being fact, without citing references.. Then when the said posters ask you to provide references and to expand upon the intent of your post (IE: What it is you exactly would like to discuss) - you play the victim card.

Mess with the bull, and you'll get the horns.

richymcdermott · 30-12-2011 2:27am

michael999999 wrote: »

Link??

:pac:

Turtwig · 30-12-2011 2:29am

partyatmygaff wrote: »

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?Volume=161&page=2303&journalID=13

Taken straight from the abstract:

No further comment. I'm not here to take sides or debate with anyone so please don't drag me in to a debate. I just remembered reading something about what the OP mentioned for an assignment I had a weeks ago and decided to add something to the thread. It's an interesting read.

Op this is how you're suppose to do it. Also, seeing as we're throwing you a bone. Did you know that there's research that points to mass goers having longer life spans on average than non mass goers? Now I could cite this research but as I believe it to be flawed I'm not going to.

Why do athiests commit suicide at such a high rate compared to religous people

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