Army Ranger Wing

John Mongo

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Here Mongo,

I haven't once quoted wikipedia in any of my posts so I hope your emotional breakdown wasn't directed at me.

I'm guessing you have served in the A.R.W since you set yourself up as such an expert, in which case you should know that there is a significant difference between tier 1 and tier 2 forces, and there is also a difference between Special Forces and Special Forces capable or elite support units.

Here Artyboy,

Did I say you did? One poster on here involved in the "discussion" does nothing but quote Wikipedia anytime he pops up on the board.

Nobody needs to have served in the ARW or be an expert to know that the Wikipedia article is flat out wrong.

Tier 1 has taken on a life of it's own for some wild reason, it's a term thrown around for JSOC's SMU's when it comes to splitting budgets. It's a US term which fanboy's have deemed fit to apply to SOF Unit's across the globe.

There's SOF Unit's and there's Unit's designated as being SOF Support. Anything else after that, like "Special forces capable" or anything else is just nonsense. If they're SOF, they'll be designated as so... There's no real "discussion" to be had about it.

I can't believe I've even ended up posting in this thread. Sacre bleu.

aloyisious

Here Yixian, have you reached any decision as to what you might do yet?

ArtyBoy

John Mongo wrote: »

Here Artyboy,

Did I say you did? One poster on here involved in the "discussion" does nothing but quote Wikipedia anytime he pops up on the board.

Nobody needs to have served in the ARW or be an expert to know that the Wikipedia article is flat out wrong.

Tier 1 has taken on a life of it's own for some wild reason, it's a term thrown around for JSOC's SMU's when it comes to splitting budgets. It's a US term which fanboy's have deemed fit to apply to SOF Unit's across the globe.

There's SOF Unit's and there's Unit's designated as being SOF Support. Anything else after that, like "Special forces capable" or anything else is just nonsense. If they're SOF, they'll be designated as so... There's no real "discussion" to be had about it.

I can't believe I've even ended up posting in this thread. Sacre bleu.

Fair enough but for the sake of clarity perhaps you should just name crusader as the 2013 copy and paste champion.

Almost all NATO forces have adopted the designation of tier 1 and 2. It is not just a 'fanboy' thing.

Tier 1 is the Special forces like the A.R.W, S.A.S, Delta etc. Then there are the units capable of acting in a supporting role to the small SF units in the case of larger operations where more man power is needed these are Tier 2 forces.

Both are highly trained but the roles differ between strategy and tactics, The distinction is important because many of the tier 2 forces are wrongly labeled as SF which they are not and that kind of takes away from the fact that the SF soldiers had to go through a tougher selection course and the fact they have more specialised roles.

Examples of Tier 2 forces would be 'P' company of the British Parachute Regiment or the Groupe Commando Parachutiste / Montagne of the French Army.

Anyway my main point was directed at the person who claimed the Royal Marine commando's and the Foreign Legion were special forces, which they're obviously not.

Jawgap

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Fair enough but for the sake of clarity perhaps you should just name crusader as the 2013 copy and paste champion.

Almost all NATO forces have adopted the designation of tier 1 and 2. It is not just a 'fanboy' thing.

Tier 1 is the Special forces like the A.R.W, S.A.S, Delta etc. Then there are the units capable of acting in a supporting role to the small SF units in the case of larger operations where more man power is needed these are Tier 2 forces.

Both are highly trained but the roles differ between strategy and tactics, The distinction is important because many of the tier 2 forces are wrongly labeled as SF which they are not and that kind of takes away from the fact that the SF soldiers had to go through a tougher selection course and the fact they have more specialised roles.

Examples of Tier 2 forces would be 'P' company of the British Parachute Regiment or the Groupe Commando Parachutiste / Montagne of the French Army.

Anyway my main point was directed at the person who claimed the Royal Marine commando's and the Foreign Legion were special forces, which they're obviously not.

Is P Company not the training / selection element of the Paras?

wildfowler94

Im sure the ARW don't disclose how much combat experience they have
And here im just going to say what most lads are thinking.... Shut up!! I highly doubt most of ye know any past or present members of the ARW and believe me they don't go around boasting about anything they do or have done. Yes it goes without saying that as a Military we don't in general have much "Combat" experience but that is a political decision not a military one.
Frankly this thread is embarrassing throwing insults and then quoting wiki:pac: lads grow up stop acting like ye know about any special force or elite unit.

RANT OVER!

ArtyBoy

Jawgap wrote: »

Is P Company not the training / selection element of the Paras?

I meant pathfinders.
Long day ;-)

ArtyBoy

wildfowler94 wrote: »

Im sure the ARW don't disclose how much combat experience they have
And here im just going to say what most lads are thinking.... Shut up!! I highly doubt most of ye know any past or present members of the ARW and believe me they don't go around boasting about anything they do or have done. Yes it goes without saying that as a Military we don't in general have much "Combat" experience but that is a political decision not a military one.
Frankly this thread is embarrassing throwing insults and then quoting wiki:pac: lads grow up stop acting like ye know about any special force or elite unit.

RANT OVER!

There's only one lad on this thread who was quoting wiki, so less of the plural.
I suppose you're in the wing as well since you set yourself up as an authority on the subject telling people what they do and don't know?

Jawgap

ArtyBoy wrote: »

I meant pathfinders.
Long day ;-)

I'm open to correction, but I think the Pathfinders and the Paras may work together, but the former are not part of, or a subset of the latter.

The Pathfinders are not drawn exclusively from the Paras.

Gatling

Teir one came about through various media outlets mainly appealing to xbox /PlayStation generations
Ohhhh look this game you can be a teir one operator awesooooome

Special forces are special forces plain and simple

Actually I've worked with several former and serving ARW members over the years one thing that would come up in conversation's
"Ordinary Joe" oh I heard the Irish army special forces do this and do that
"Former unit member" actually our special forces are actually known as "Advanced infantry" ordinary joe I knew that
"Ordinary Joe" several hours later when former unit member is off doing something "what's advanced infantry"
My reply its a bit like complicated maths if you don't already understand it you probably never will

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Fair enough but for the sake of clarity perhaps you should just name crusader as the 2013 copy and paste champion.

Almost all NATO forces have adopted the designation of tier 1 and 2. It is not just a 'fanboy' thing.

Tier 1 is the Special forces like the A.R.W, S.A.S, Delta etc. Then there are the units capable of acting in a supporting role to the small SF units in the case of larger operations where more man power is needed these are Tier 2 forces.

Both are highly trained but the roles differ between strategy and tactics, The distinction is important because many of the tier 2 forces are wrongly labeled as SF which they are not and that kind of takes away from the fact that the SF soldiers had to go through a tougher selection course and the fact they have more specialised roles.

Examples of Tier 2 forces would be 'P' company of the British Parachute Regiment or the Groupe Commando Parachutiste / Montagne of the French Army.

Anyway my main point was directed at the person who claimed the Royal Marine commando's and the Foreign Legion were special forces, which they're obviously not.

"Examples of Tier 2 forces would be 'P' company of the British Parachute Regiment"

..............Lol

cruasder777

Jawgap wrote: »

I'm open to correction, but I think the Pathfinders and the Paras may work together, but the former are not part of, or a subset of the latter.

The Pathfinders are not drawn exclusively from the Paras.

The Pathfinders are the force reconnaissance unit of 16AAB, they mark out a DZ or HLS by Bde forces.

They do Brecon Phase 1 selection which is 1 month long, same as the SAS (not phase 2), then train in SF SOPs and LRP training, HALO and in some cases HAHO, which has not been used since the early 7Os.

They are trained in the same way conventional green role Special Forces are.



They are open to regiments outside the Paras, but 98% are from the Paras and a Few bods from the RAF Reg who are Fwd air controllers, a few Royal Engineers and Electronic Warfare specialists/signals.


Good video about them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xvile3oxAjM#at=17

Jawgap

cruasder777 wrote: »

The Pathfinders are the force reconnaissance unit of 16AAB, they mark out a DZ or HLS by Bde forces.

They do Brecon Phase 1 selection which is 1 month long, same as the SAS (not phase 2), then SOPs and LRP training, HALO and in some cases HAHO, which has not been used since the early 7Os.

They are trained in the same way conventional green role Special Forces are.


They are open to regiments outside the Paras, but 98% are from the Paras.

So they are not, as you said, "of the Parachute Regiment" - you seemed to be suggesting they were a component of the Paras, when they are totally independent them?

cruasder777

Jawgap wrote: »

So they are not, as you said, "of the Parachute Regiment" - you seemed to be suggesting they were a component of the Paras, when they are totally independent them?

The Pathfinders have always been the Spearhead Force of the Parachute Regiment.

Now they operate in that role for 16AAB. Previously for 5 airborne Bde.

wildfowler94

ArtyBoy wrote: »

There's only one lad on this thread who was quoting wiki, so less of the plural.
I suppose you're in the wing as well since you set yourself up as an authority on the subject telling people what they do and don't know?

Nah im not in the wing, but i know when a thread is gone out of hand and plain stupid.

Jawgap

cruasder777 wrote: »

The Pathfinders have always been the Spearhead Force of the Parachute Regiment.

Now they operate in that role for 16AAB. Previously for 5 airborne Bde.

.......not according to the Paras Regimental History.........while they have used pathfinders (small 'p') since 1943, the Pathfinder Group / Platoon has always been under brigade command.

The lineage of the Pathfinder Platoon stems more from the Pathfinder (No. 1 Guards) Independent Company - the Pathfinder Platoon was created to plug the gap left by their disbandment.

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

"Examples of Tier 2 forces would be 'P' company of the British Parachute Regiment"

..............Lol

Ya dzope, I explained it was a mistake. At least my knowledge is not gained from xbox 360 and wikipedia, I have served in the defence forces, have you?
And I don't mean the reserves.

cruasder777

Jawgap wrote: »

.......not according to the Paras Regimental History.........while they have used pathfinders (small 'p') since 1943, the Pathfinder Group / Platoon has always been under brigade command.

The lineage of the Pathfinder Platoon stems more from the Pathfinder (No. 1 Guards) Independent Company - the Pathfinder Platoon was created to plug the gap left by their disbandment.

Where did I say they were not under Bde command ? they does not mean they are not historically the Spearhead unit of the Parachute Regiment.

They were disbanded in 77 after the demise of 16 Bde, the the Guards independent company were a small part of that.

Jawgap

cruasder777 wrote: »

Where did I say they were not under Bde command ? they does not mean they are not historically the Spearhead unit of the Parachute Regiment.

They were disbanded in 77 after the demise of 16 Bde, the the Guards independent company were a small part of that.

You mean 16 Parachute Brigade don't you? Not 16 Air Assault ?

The regimental history does not agree with your account.

cruasder777

Jawgap wrote: »

You mean 16 Parachute Brigade don't you? Not 16 Air Assault ?

The regimental history does not agree with your account.

Thats what I said.

My version is the official one.

Jawgap

cruasder777 wrote: »

Thats what I said.

My version is the official one.

Your version is the official one.......

....not the one being managed by The Airborne Assault Museum, which part of the IWM?

Sounds legit.......

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Ya dzope, I explained it was a mistake. At least my knowledge is not gained from xbox 360 and wikipedia, I have served in the defence forces, have you?
And I don't mean the reserves.

I have served in an armed Forces not a localised defence force.

UK reserves actually go to war too for your info.

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Fair enough but for the sake of clarity perhaps you should just name crusader as the 2013 copy and paste champion.

Almost all NATO forces have adopted the designation of tier 1 and 2. It is not just a 'fanboy' thing.

Tier 1 is the Special forces like the A.R.W, S.A.S, Delta etc. Then there are the units capable of acting in a supporting role to the small SF units in the case of larger operations where more man power is needed these are Tier 2 forces.

Both are highly trained but the roles differ between strategy and tactics, The distinction is important because many of the tier 2 forces are wrongly labeled as SF which they are not and that kind of takes away from the fact that the SF soldiers had to go through a tougher selection course and the fact they have more specialised roles.

Examples of Tier 2 forces would be 'P' company of the British Parachute Regiment or the Groupe Commando Parachutiste / Montagne of the French Army.

Anyway my main point was directed at the person who claimed the Royal Marine commando's and the Foreign Legion were special forces, which they're obviously not.

Tier 1 is the Special forces like the A.R.W, S.A.S, Delta etc. Then there are the units capable of acting in a supporting role to the small SF units in the case of larger operations where more man power is needed these are Tier 2 forces.



.......Lets keep it real, the ARW did not even have the logistical capability to take part in anti piracy operations in the Caribbean recently, never mind support Delta, SAS, Seal type global operations. They have neither the training or equipment.

I know the Wing have sent members over to do the Royal Marines mountain leader course.

I dont dispute the ARW are a professional unit but claiming they are Tier 1 alongside the Delta, Seals, SAS etc and could support their type of operations is nonsense.


They are basically a very small SF unit of a localised defence force.

Their role appears limited to being a Spearhead expeditionary force in UN ops for the army and at home to deal with unexpected terrorist incidents that the civil powers cant deal with as well as raising standards in the defence forces.





http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/armys-elite-to-take-on-somali-pirates-in-aden-28811128.html

THE Army's elite special forces unit, the Ranger Wing, has been mobilised for its toughest mission yet – tackling Somali pirates in the Indian Ocean.

.....They seemed to forget you need the logistical capability to do this.

Jawgap

cruasder777 wrote: »

Tier 1 is the Special forces like the A.R.W, S.A.S, Delta etc. Then there are the units capable of acting in a supporting role to the small SF units in the case of larger operations where more man power is needed these are Tier 2 forces.



.......Lets keep it real, the ARW did not even have the logistical capability to take part in anti piracy operations in the Caribbean recently, never mind support Delta, SAS, Seal type operations. They have neither the training or equipment.

I know the Wing have sent members over to do the Royal Marines mountain leader course.

I dont dispute the ARW are a professional unit but claiming they are Tier 1 alongside the Delta, Seals, SAS etc and could support their type of operations is nonsense.

Why would Ireland even want to send any force into the Caribbean? What interests have we in the American back yard?

cruasder777

Jawgap wrote: »

Why would Ireland even want to send any force into the Caribbean? What interests have we in the American back yard?

Read the link, it was all over the media the ARW were going out there.

But you need auxiliary ships, helos etc to do stuff like that.

Jawgap

cruasder777 wrote: »

Read the link, it was all over the media the ARW were going out there.

But you need auxiliary ships, helos etc to do stuff like that.

First, that has been shown to be an ill founded rumour that they were ever going to do the anti-piracy mission.

Second, last I checked Somalia wasn't in the Caribbean!!!

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

I have served in an armed Forces not a localised defence force.

UK reserves actually go to war too for your info.

Haha You were a STAB and you come on here spouting nonsense, don't make me laugh.
That explains your claim that TA SAS selection is harder than real SAS selection.

Thanks for that, STAB ALERT!!! You've got zero credibility.

Jawgap

Jawgap wrote: »

First, that has been shown to be an ill founded rumour that they were ever going to do the anti-piracy mission.

Second, last I checked Somalia wasn't in the Caribbean!!!

I see we're going back and doing some editing!!!!!

Jawgap

Are @crusader777 and @artyboy the one individual ?

Hmmmm..... The ol' spider senses are tingling........

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Haha You were a STAB and you come on here spouting nonsense, don't make me laugh.
That explains your claim that TA SAS selection is harder than real SAS selection.

Thanks for that, STAB ALERT!!! You've got zero credibility.

STAB lol, from a guy who served in a local defence force and most likely went home for tea every night.


Tell the guys from 21/23 SAS who served in Iraq and Afghanistan they are not real SF soldiers.


Ok lets have it your way the ARW are right up their with the Delta, Seals, SAS etc.

I wonder if in places like Malta or Equador people go on internet forums and say their special forces are up their with the SAS, Seals, Delta etc, my bet is they do.

cruasder777

Jawgap wrote: »

First, that has been shown to be an ill founded rumour that they were ever going to do the anti-piracy mission.

Second, last I checked Somalia wasn't in the Caribbean!!!

Typo, its late.

The point still stands.