Army Ranger Wing

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

Yeah, maybe they should gain more military experience by protecting CIT vans and taking hikers off mountains in Ireland rather then serving in Iraq and Afghanistan for the last 13 years.

Simple reality is even the average 18 yr old infantryman whos served a tour in Afghanistan has more combat experience then the Wing in its total history.

TA SAS are mainly ex regulars, lots of ex Paras, they do the same selection tests as the regular SAS, when the ARW do a solo 40 mile night navigation test fully loaded and jungle phase as part of selection, let me know.



You obviously dont know the definition of Tier 1 Special forces.

Tier 1 includes everything from counter terrorism to Special reconnaissance, not just black ops.

Are you purposely trying to be funny?
Are you saying 21 / 23 SAS are tier 1 special forces?

ArtyBoy

iceage wrote: »

Lads, it's Friday night...The last 5 posts have just made me spill my beer all over my keyboard :-/ Please for the love of christ stop talking utter bollix and do one would you..


Opps 6 posts... still laughing.

Which post of mine is 'utter bollix' ?

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Are you purposely trying to be funny?
Are you saying 21 / 23 SAS are tier 1 special forces?

Look up the definition of Tier 1.

Its not just black ops.




They are tasked with "special missions", sometimes referring to unconventional warfare, counter-terrorist activities, direct action, Special reconnaissance, and/or black operations.[1]



TA SAS do the above. Black ops we dont know.

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Which post of mine is 'utter bollix' ?

Your posts are inaccurate.

Gatling

Somebody call Chuck Norris and let him sort this out.

Too much caffeine and Cod

And I'm no expert

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

Look up the definition of Tier 1.

Its not just black ops.




They are tasked with "special missions", sometimes referring to unconventional warfare, counter-terrorist activities, direct action, Special reconnaissance, and/or black operations.[1]



TA SAS do the above. Black ops we dont know.

It's not up for discussion pal, it's a matter of facts and you're wrong.

TA SAS act in a supporting role to 22 SAS, they are not tier 1.
They are not first into battle and only L detachment operate within 22 SAS.
In short you are wrong. A simple Google search will clear it all up for you.

TA SAS selection involves weekend selection every 2 weeks, then an escape an evasion exercise, it is nowhere near as hard as 22 SAS selection, if it was most of the TA SAS would be able to pass 22 selection but most who attempt it fail.

note: 22 SAS and the SBS are sometimes termed 'Tier 1' special forces, due to fact they are the units usually tasked with direct action. The SRR, SFSG, 18 (UKSF) signals etc are 'Tier 2', as they fulfill a supporting role for the 2 Tier 1 units. 21 SAS, 23 SAS, SBS(R) and 63 (SAS) Signals are collectively termed UKSF(R) in some Ministry Of Defence (MoD) publications.

http://www.eliteukforces.info/uksf/

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

It's not up for discussion pal, it's a matter of facts and you're wrong.

TA SAS act in a supporting role to 22 SAS, they are not tier 1.
They are not first into battle and only L detachment operate within 22 SAS.
In short you are wrong. A simple Google search will clear it all up for you.

TA SAS selection involves weekend selection every 2 weeks, then an escape an evasion exercise, it is nowhere near as hard as 22 SAS selection, if it was most of the TA SAS would be able to pass 22 selection but most who attempt it fail.

note: 22 SAS and the SBS are sometimes termed 'Tier 1' special forces, due to fact they are the units usually tasked with direct action. The SRR, SFSG, 18 (UKSF) signals etc are 'Tier 2', as they fulfill a supporting role for the 2 Tier 1 units. 21 SAS, 23 SAS, SBS(R) and 63 (SAS) Signals are collectively termed UKSF(R) in some Ministry Of Defence (MoD) publications.

http://www.eliteukforces.info/uksf/

You don't understand the definition of what Tier 1 Means, either does whoever wrote that website. Your info is inaccurate on all levels.

21/23 dont just act in a support role to 22 SAS. L deatchment is 22 SAS reserve, made of ex members.

As for 22 SAS its the same selection tests, they do selection tests alongside 21/23 SAS. Brecon phase 1 has the same E and E test.

Infact working in a civilian job and trying to pass selection over 12 months could be argued to be more demanding, then being able to train for it on a full time basis.

Only 2% of civilians with no military experience who attempt it pass it.





I have it on good authority 4 Para is going to be merged with 21/23 SAS in the coming years to create a super TA battalion to support 16 AAbde.




Anyway cant be bothered with this, lifes to short.

discus

Embarrassing thread

Jawgap

Special Operations Forces are differentiated from one another on the basis of an holistic assessment of the quality and the scope of their capabilities as a force, not on the individual qualities on the soldier or operator.......or on the basis of their selection tests.

The boy scouts could introduce 40km full gear night matches, it wouldn't make them Tier 1.

Capability is a function of power projection, command & control, flexibility, tactical capability, and availability of specialist support.

I don't know much about the ARW, but individually, soldier-on-soldier, I don't doubt they would stack up against the best, but given the country doesn't have, (because it doesn't need) a strategic lift capacity either by air or sea and lacks the capacity to independently support a force abroad, they are not Tier 1.

Saying that it doesn't matter - the ARW, I reckon, is comparable to the Canadian JTF2 - not Tier 1, but Tier 1-capable - meaning it can, with minimum training, integrate into a variety of roles in a Tier 1 grouping.

The Canadians followed this model because they recognised that they'd be re-inventing the wheel if they developed an all up Tier 1 force given that their two closest allies (the US & UK) already had Tier 1 groupings. It was better to develop a force that could integrate would either of these, which itself provided a significant challenge as both operate different forms of command and control - decentralised -v- centralised.

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

You don't understand the definition of what Tier 1 Means, either does whoever wrote that website. Your info is inaccurate on all levels.

21/23 dont just act in a support role to 22 SAS. L deatchment is 22 SAS reserve, made of ex members.

As for 22 SAS its the same selection tests, they do selection tests alongside 21/23 SAS. Brecon phase 1 has the same E and E test.

Infact working in a civilian job and trying to pass selection over 12 months could be argued to be more demanding, then being able to train for it on a full time basis.

Only 2% of civilians with no military experience who attempt it pass it.





I have it on good authority 4 Para is going to be merged with 21/23 SAS in the coming years to create a super TA battalion to support 16 AAbde.




Anyway cant be bothered with this, lifes to short.

L detachment is made up of ex 22 sas, that's the only reason they integrate (rarely) with 22 SAS.

Again you show that you are clueless on the subject.
You are talking nonsense, now you're trying to say 21/23 SAS selection is harder than 22 SAS selection? That is laughable and on that note I relaise I'm wasting my time talking to someone who is totally clueless on this subject.

aloyisious

@Yixian: I reckon you probably already get the idea that the Med Corp would probably prefer to utilize a Med Doctor at home, rather than abroad, as you'd be a specialist, instead of on the ground in freefire zones abroad where you'ld likely have to shoot, wound or kill (or be killed) before you got a chance to practice your non-military skills without recourse to MAP's or hospital facilities.. I'd imagine the rangers have their own personnel trained for dealing with battlefield wounds in the field.

You'ld likely have to be prepared to live/reside within the Curragh Camp area on an "on-call basis" 24-7 as well for an indefinite period of time (years maybe) if you did get "invited" into the ARW after completed it's training schedule to it's satisfaction. That would be after any "officer-training" you got at the Military College, as you'd be made a Commissioned Officer, due to your medical qualifications position within the Med Corp.

With the above strictures in mind, best of luck to you if you choose to apply.

amurph0

cruasder777 wrote: »

On paper the ARW selection tests look pretty mild compared to those done for winged dagger

It's excalibur covered in fire, not a winged dagger.

Jawgap

amurph0 wrote: »

It's excalibur covered in fire, not a winged dagger.

That's a later interpretation - when the insignia were originally conceived the sword was the sword of Damocles - it represented retribution. Jock Lewis, one of the original volunteers who Stirling gathered, designed it.

The choice of two-tone blue was down to Lewis, an Oxford rower and Langton a Cambridge rower.

Stirling didn't bother getting GHQ to approve the establishment of insignia he just got Ritchie as C-in-C to approve it! Which, I suppose, fits with the ethos of the regiment!

Manic Moran

ArtyBoy wrote: »

Okay Walter, have a good Friday and don't get too excited while pretending to be SF on Call of Duty.

[Mod]If you're going to attack the poster and not the post, which is already counter to the rules, at least get the terminology right. A Walter is someone who claims to be what they're not. Infraction[/mod]

This discussion is delving into 'he said, she said'. I'd like to see a little more linking to source documents from both sides and a little less 'this is the way it is because I say so'

ArtyBoy

Manic Moran wrote: »

[Mod]If you're going to attack the poster and not the post, which is already counter to the rules, at least get the terminology right. A Walter is someone who claims to be what they're not. Infraction[/mod]

This discussion is delving into 'he said, she said'. I'd like to see a little more linking to source documents from both sides and a little less 'this is the way it is because I say so'

I linked to a credible source. It's hyper sensitivity such as that demonstrated by you here that has given boards.ie such a bad name.

He implied that the FFL and royal marines were special forces then went on to imply TA SAS selection might be harder than 22 SAS selection.
All of which are 'Walterish' claims
A 'walter' is anyone who tries to portray themselves as being something they're not or someone who tries to portray the image that they know something others don't particularly on military matters. It was an accurate statement.

cruasder777

ArtyBoy wrote: »

I linked to a credible source. It's hyper sensitivity such as that demonstrated by you here that has given boards.ie such a bad name.

He implied that the FFL and royal marines were special forces then went on to imply TA SAS selection might be harder than 22 SAS selection.
All of which are 'Walterish' claims
A 'walter' is anyone who tries to portray themselves as being something they're not or someone who tries to portray the image that they know something others don't particularly on military matters. It was an accurate statement.

Stop telling lies I did no such thing......Quote?

SplitCartridge

Ah the ol' crusader kid is up to his old tricks again. There are reasons why everyone I know in the Army slags me for keeping an eye on boards... people like you are one of those reasons.

Great banter watching this muck talk.

discus

SplitCartridge wrote: »

Ah the ol' crusader kid is up to his old tricks again. There are reasons why everyone I know in the Army slags me for keeping an eye on boards... people like you are one of those reasons.

Great banter watching this muck talk.

Take not of the [1],[2] etc as he copies and pastes everything he posts from wikipedia... Although he has deviated a few posts back to mention that he's been in the SFC (Special Forces Club) in Knightsbridge :rolleyes: Hmmm, funny that, the address is on wikipedia!

tac foley

Those who have been or still are SF do not talk about it. Glory hunters who hope to catch some of the mystique of SF 'hint' at a connection of some sort, even if it's holding open the door to the khazi as a REAL SF-er goes in or out.

As for a previous comment that the SAS Regiment is 'just another infantry regiment' that has certain skills in certain areas of military expertise, that's worth quoting on arrse.

tac

ArtyBoy

cruasder777 wrote: »

URH (Unite de Recherche Humaine) Of 2 REP fit the definition of Tier 1.

First of all the URH are not part of the 2 REP, the commando element of 2 REP is known as Groupe Commando Parachutiste or GCP, formally known as 'CRAP'

URH or Group Commando Montaigne are part of 2 REG,
They are a mountain recce elite infantry unit, not tier 1 special forces and are not considered to be special forces by the French.

All of the GCP/GCM groups in the FFL are known as the 'second circle' They have the ability to act in a supporting role to the French special forces such as 1 RPIMa and the various French Navy special forces.

SplitCartridge

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Category:Infamous_Walts

Lads. Try not to get risen by this young lad. Remember, he's the same lad who derailed a thread before on this site and claimed that the majority of the Irish DF have never been outside of Ireland. When he was called on his BS he simply chose to insult (poorly) the other posters and ask for evidence against his claims. It was provided to the extent that academic articles were linked in posts which backed up the claims of the other posters, centering on the fact that the Irish Defence Forces are actually statistically a very very active force. He simply chose to completely ignore this evidence, ask for more, and proceeded to insult everyone with poor and witless digs.

He's either a total Walt, or someone taking the mick (poorly).

iceage

Best laugh round here in ages, I say carry on the tosh.

discus

iceage wrote: »

Best laugh round here in ages, I say carry on the tosh.

Nah, the best laugh was when he claimed that the RAF Regiment are up there with the Royal Marines and Paras!

knucklehead6

discus wrote: »

Nah, the best laugh was when he claimed that the RAF Regiment are up there with the Royal Marines and Paras!

Lies... LIES I TELLS YA!!!

The best laughs we had around here were all to do with the (not very) much lamented Investment!!!

Manic Moran

ArtyBoy wrote: »

I linked to a credible source. It's hyper sensitivity such as that demonstrated by you here that has given boards.ie such a bad name.

The rules on ad hominem attacks are pretty straight forward. Regardless of how one defines 'walt', you broke them.

A 'walter' is anyone who tries to portray themselves as being something they're not or someone who tries to portray the image that they know something others don't particularly on military matters. It was an accurate statement.

I have never heard the second half of that definition before, and it doesn't come up on this excellent walt page.

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Walt

iceage

Ahh Arrse, flashbacks to Baron Jim Shortt. One of the longest thread on the Forum I believe, revived several times.

John Mongo

Tier One? Tier Two? Are people discussing SOF unit's or the layout of Croke Park?

Jesus ****ing wept, get a grip of yourselves. A load of people who haven't served a day in any of the Unit's they're discussing having a Wikipedia war with each other. Wikipedia articles which in the case of the ARW at least, are completely wrong.

****ing hell.

Morpheus

John Mongo wrote: »

Tier One? Tier Two? Are people discussing SOF unit's or the layout of Croke Park?

think they mean this...

ArtyBoy

John Mongo wrote: »

Tier One? Tier Two? Are people discussing SOF unit's or the layout of Croke Park?

Jesus ****ing wept, get a grip of yourselves. A load of people who haven't served a day in any of the Unit's they're discussing having a Wikipedia war with each other. Wikipedia articles which in the case of the ARW at least, are completely wrong.

****ing hell.

Here Mongo,

I haven't once quoted wikipedia in any of my posts so I hope your emotional breakdown wasn't directed at me.

I'm guessing you have served in the A.R.W since you set yourself up as such an expert, in which case you should know that there is a significant difference between tier 1 and tier 2 forces, and there is also a difference between Special Forces and Special Forces capable or elite support units.

Manic Moran

Here's the odd thing.

I've been wearing Army green since 1997. I have absolutely no idea what 'Tier' I am.

I also have absolutely no idea what 'Tier' any of the SF folks I've worked with have been, either. It hasn't exactly come up in conversation, and I don't think anyone particularly cared if the opposition knew either. There's certainly no insignia on their uniform to so identify. I'm usually far more concerned about what they're capable of doing than an arbitrary (and apparently not very significant) classification.

NTM