Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

K-9

Ian64 wrote: »

Damn and Blast!
Cant find the bit in the Charter and posting rules that says you can only post if your grammer and spelling are correct!
Obviously however, so long as you spell check your messages then no matter how economically illiterate and politically bankrupt your postings are, you must be right!
And everyone who doesn't agree with you must be a FG member.

I was "complimenting" Mikom on his spell checking skills!

mikom

K-9 wrote: »

I was "complimenting" Mikom on his spell checking skills!

Oh you guys......

Ian64

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

WTF? Are you for real? Because I disagree with you I'm automtically a bad person, is that it? Has it not occured to you that you are in the wrong?

Check the poll again.

I don't see how slandering other posters makes your argument more credible.

1. I never said you were a bad person!
2. The only slander was that perpetrated by you against "foriegn nationals".
3. By virtue of your selecting foriegn nationals as a scape goat group your post could reasonably be described as racist.
I stand over my cooments

Phill Ewinn

Ian64 wrote: »

1. I never said you were a bad person!
2. The only slander was that perpetrated by you against "foriegn nationals".
3. By virtue of your selecting foriegn nationals as a scape goat group your post could reasonably be described as racist.
I stand over my cooments

I doubt you'll agree with any reasonable person. I noticed you haven't called me ageist. Despite my ''selection'' of OAPs. Or farmerist for selecting farmers.

These little digs just make your posts seem petty and unreasonable. I stand over that comment for sure.

Xenophile

mikom wrote: »

Ask Martin Luther King.

Martin Luther King On Duty
To Break Unjust Laws
11-22-2

Martin Luther King, in his famous "Letter from the Birmingham Jail," called on all Americans to actively but peacefully oppose laws that were morally wrong. King wrote:

"There are just laws and there are unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that an unjust law is no law at all... One who breaks an unjust law must do it openly, lovingly...I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and willingly accepts the penalty by staying in jail to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the very highest respect for law."

El Horseboxo

Ian64 wrote: »

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

There's OAPs who have been living on farm income subsidies most of their lives. Some of them haven't ever even had a dog licence FFS.

Likewise foreign nationals living in apartment blocks who wouldn't know what a TV licence is......

The truth of the matter is the low hanging fuit will be picked from the tree first. Just another tax which will be avoided by those who can.

There are no shortage of forigen nationals who pay all their taxes, why the need to introduce petty racisism?

As a foreign national the above post is far from racist. I think this country needs a racism education course.

biko

Leave the fordners out of this

Back on topic pls

Ian64

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

I doubt you'll agree with any reasonable person. I noticed you haven't called me ageist. Despite my ''selection'' of OAPs. Or farmerist for selecting farmers.

These little digs just make your posts seem petty and unreasonable. I stand over that comment for sure.

Describing racism for what it is racism, is not a little dig, it's just a statment of fact. That by your own abmission you are also ageist and anti farmer simply validates my original response to your overtly racist post.

Ian64

biko wrote: »

Leave the fordners out of this

Back on topic pls

Agreed. I will respect your request.

Phill Ewinn

biko wrote: »

Leave the fordners out of this

Back on topic pls

.....and the name calling.

Ian64 wrote: »

Describing racism for what it is racism, is not a little dig, it's just a statment of fact. That by your own abmission you are also ageist and anti farmer simply validates my original response to your overtly racist post.

Your reasoning is obviously completly askew. Making up stuff proves that.

Hijpo

Ian64 wrote: »

If youb cant win the arguement just personally abuse those who disagree with you is obviously your motto, this thread is about the household tax and i havnt notice any flying houses lately!

If you put as much thinking into finding other means of reducing the countries expenditure as you do smart ass troll replies then youd see that if the government increased that charge by a fiver they could take in the money that there expecting from the household and water tax in a year.
Wait until the end of the year when there is an announcement that the income from household tax didnt meet the forecast due to them not knowing exactly how many vacant houses there are. Then they up it by another hundred.

tayto lover

I agree with M.L. King that if you believe a law is unjust then it is not a law and you have the right to protest.
Fair play to MLK.

Don't pay lads, it's unjust.

mikom

tayto lover wrote: »

I agree with M.L. King that if you believe a law is unjust then it is not a law and you have the right to protest.
Fair play to MLK.

*Wistfully remembers back to all the cannabis debates with tayto lover*

tayto lover

mikom wrote: »

*Wistfully remembers back to all the cannabis debates with tayto lover*

You actually remembered me !! I'm chuffed

mikom

tayto lover wrote: »

You actually remembered me !! I'm chuffed

I never forget an adversary.
Your views may have softened since.

tayto lover

mikom wrote: »

I never forget an adversary.
Your views may have softened since.

I have actually started doing some part-time work with those people

Bishop_Donal

Flex wrote: »

It could get worse though. Our tax revenue at the moment is approx €34B versus expenses of ~€52B, so we are capable of financing about 66% of our expenditure (that €18B hole relates to public spending deficit, not the banks).

If we were to default nobody will lend to us and we'll have to close the €18B hole immediately. Some hypothethical events;

• Dole, pensions, disability, etc. and public sector pay would be cut by around 40%
• Subsidised third level fees, rent allowance, childrens allowance (needless to say public services such as schools, hospitals, functioning police force) would all be in shreds
• Far less infrastructural maintenance
• The sudden sharp collapse of disposable income floating around the economy would make unemployment rise quickly
• This in turn would mean less tax revenue and more welfare expenditure....

So tax credits would be reduced and we'd be well on our way back to the 1980's when VAT stood at ~35% and the government was taking about 65% of your gross pay in deductions.

But that would be cool, because at least we wouldve given two fingers to the IMF (greedy bastards, lending us money at a cheaper rate than we were ever able to get on the markets, even at the height of the boom!!) and stood up to the bankers who are trying to make us pay a property tax to fund their gold yachts that they sail around in an ocean of diamonds while swigging brandy and laughing at us

If this property tax fails then the government can simply do something like say, gradually reduce all tax credits by about €700 a year instead or something. Would that be prefereable?

Hear Hear.

I really wish people could get their brains around these concepts.

In a lot of ways the stupid Irish deserve what they get for biting off their nose despite their face.

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Hear Hear.

I really wish people could get their brains around these concepts.

In a lot of ways the stupid Irish deserve what they get for biting off their nose despite their face.

BUT many do not see the debt as theirs, particularly the Bank Debts.
How do you think the people will vote if there is another Referendum on Europe ?

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

BUT many do not see the debt as theirs, particularly the Bank Debts.
How do you think the people will vote if there is another Referendum on Europe ?

Give me one straight answer - no waffle,

How much of the Bank debt has the Irish taxpayer actually paid as at 18/1/12?

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

BUT many do not see the debt as theirs, particularly the Bank Debts.
How do you think the people will vote if there is another Referendum on Europe ?

What way would the Irish vote? They are well capable of voting No (after when you look at what we put in the Dáil & our track record over the past generation - it's not what you'd call glowing).

It would really teach the Europeans a lesson if we refused their financial support and collapsed our banking system and economy!

I'll tell you one thing, if I was in the Netherlands, France or Germany, I certainly know what way I'd vote. I'd do anything to get shut of the Irish and their 'entitlement culture'.

gerryo777

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Hear Hear.

I really wish people could get their brains around these concepts.

In a lot of ways the stupid Irish deserve what they get for biting off their nose despite their face.

It's "to spite their face" not "despite their face" jeez....:D and the Irish are stupid???

The Quadratic Equation

I see the government propaganda machine has stopped announcing the number of people that have paid so far. At the last count 98% of people had not.

If you wait until Feb/March 2013 before you pay, and pay then for 2012, you cannot be taken to court and fined, as the legislation only refers to REPEAT non payment. You'll just pay €142. Worth it to make them sweat. If everyone waited untill Feb/March 2013 before paying this corrupt scam would collapse long before then.

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Give me one straight answer - no waffle,

How much of the Bank debt has the Irish taxpayer actually paid as at 18/1/12?

Haven't a clue. Even our so-called experts are usually wrong on that anyway and continue to disagree. The people don't see it as theirs anyway.
Now will you waffle back about the prospects of a Referendum being carried.

Bishop_Donal

gerryo777 wrote: »

It's "to spite their face" not "despite their face" jeez....:D and the Irish are stupid???

There you go, you learn something new everyday. Thanks for that.

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

Haven't a clue. Even our so-called experts are usually wrong on that anyway and continue to disagree. The people don't see it as theirs anyway.
Now will you waffle back about the prospects of a Referendum being carried.

Well the answer is none. It's simply being aggregated to our national debt. The ECB have provided emergency funding to each of the covered institutions at a rate that covers repayments due on bank loans. The Irish Government has provided promissory notes to support the position.

So, because the Irish taxpayer has a theoretical liability in the future (which we either never will be able to repay, nor will repay) the argument on this thread is that we should cease accepting support from the Troika now.

People will die if that support stops. It's lives that are at stake.

Bishop_Donal

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I see the government propaganda machine has stopped announcing the number of people that have paid so far. At the last count 98% of people had not.

If you wait until Feb/March 2013 before you pay, and pay then for 2012, you cannot be taken to court and fined, as the legislation only refers to REPEAT non payment. You'll just pay €142. Worth it to make them sweat. If everyone waited untill Feb/March 2013 before paying this corrupt scam would collapse long before then.

I believe that the rate of payment of Self Assessed Income Tax due on the 31 October 2012 is extremely low at the moment as well. That's surely an indication that everyone has decided to refuse to pay it this year too??

Or else maybe a lot of Irish tend to leave things fairly late when it comes to paying their tax bills?

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Well the answer is none. It's simply being aggregated to our national debt. The ECB have provided emergency funding to each of the covered institutions at a rate that covers repayments due on bank loans. The Irish Government has provided promissory notes to support the position.

So, because the Irish taxpayer has a theoretical liability in the future (which we either never will be able to repay, nor will repay) the argument on this thread is that we should cease accepting support from the Troika now.

People will die if that support stops. It's lives that are at stake.

We will default anyway eventually so why are we paying the junior bondholders?
We cannot afford this bail out and should try and change the terms by asking for it to be seriously stretched out and most of it wiped out.

greenpilot

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

I don't work for the government. I have no connections with FG or Labour (or any other political party). I think I have already stated this - but obviously your literacy isn't great > maybe education hasn't moved outside Dublin yet either?

The comment that was made was based about the democratic rights of the people. We all knew when putting this government into power that these charges we coming. You can dispute it as much as you want, but that is fact.

The people democratically put FG and Labour into power, and if you believe in democracy, you would now sign up to what they are proposing. I'll guess at least 50% of the representatives from your own (rural) constituency support the government?? If you are not happy with them, you should advise them accordingly and clobber them at the next election.

I have no intention of getting into a debate with you on country v dublin. That is for another thread. They each have their merits and negatives, but one point, how much Stamp Duty did you pay when you acquired your home?

Re your last point: I'll hold onto my receipt alright. You better start putting money behind the milking machine for the fine you'll incur.

Ah, typical ignorant sheltered Dublin comment. Firstly, I can guarantee that I am more educated than you, as my education broadened my mind whereas yours clearly didnt. Secondly, not all people living in the country are Farmers-so your comment regarding milking is unwarranted. Thirdly, I voted FG AND I work for the Government, but I still urge people NOT to pay for the charge. You may view this as irresponsible, but I view it as doing those people who still think for themselves a service in giving them the Heads up. Thirdly, I paid no stamp duty when I "aquired " my home....dont worry, you wouldnt understand.

Fourthly, you clearly dont understand the meaning of Democracy. Lots of Countries chose to elect their Governments but ended up being shafted by those same Goverments and were subsequently removed. Just because we elected the Government doesent mean we cant stand up to them when they veer away from sanity

Fifthly, this IS indeed a Rural/Urban matter. We are being told that the charge is to pay for services. Rural Communities have little, if any services as I have stated earlier, while Urban areas have a huge amount of services available to them. Rural communities will not pay the charge. Urban folks dont have an argument really. One onders what percentage of those who paid live in Urban areas. That will be an interesting Statistic.

Bishop_Donal

tayto lover wrote: »

We will default anyway eventually so why are we paying the junior bondholders?
We cannot afford this bail out and should try and change the terms by asking for it to be seriously stretched out and most of it wiped out.

You negotiate when you have some basis to negotiate. You can't do it while you are depending on the people you are negotiating with to the extent of Eur18bn per year.

Any 'repayments' we are making are being made out of new borrowings. So in effect the Irish are not paying back a cent. And over and above that we can't pay for our own basic services because of a combination of waste and excess expenditure.

Therefore you need broadly based taxes and expenditure cuts.

It's the same point over and over and over again.

Gareth2011

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I see the government propaganda machine has stopped announcing the number of people that have paid so far. At the last count 98% of people had not.

If you wait until Feb/March 2013 before you pay, and pay then for 2012, you cannot be taken to court and fined, as the legislation only refers to REPEAT non payment. You'll just pay €142. Worth it to make them sweat. If everyone waited untill Feb/March 2013 before paying this corrupt scam would collapse long before then.

Even if people do wait till 2013 they will be the ones who lost out cause it would have cost them an extra 42 euro for the sake of trying to win a campaign there is no hope of winning. You all seem to think its going to go away. Your wrong it wont go anywhere and they will get it one way or the other. Even if it has to stay attached to the home you can't sell till its paid, you can't get away with not paying because it will either come from your pension, your payslip or your social welfare. But hey your ok because your in a ghost estate so what are you still doing here? You sure your not a TD looking for votes?