Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

The Quadratic Equation

Ian64 wrote: »

Not to mention the greed of those who stuck their noses in the SSIA trough, bought second homes to rent out, and repeatedly auctioned their vote to the highest bidder.
Easy to blame the everyone else!

Yes, much much easier to blame everyone else and get them to pay for it, rather than the filthy fat wealthly corrupt golden cirlce in Ireland that caused it.

In the period 2005-2007, a network of 39 people held positions in 33 of the 40 top private companies and state-owned bodies. Between them, these 39 – referred to as the Director Network in TASC’s report – held a total of 93 directorships.

Mapping the Golden Circle also provides evidence that there was a trend of “excessive remuneration” for the CEOs of both state-owned and private companies. On average, their pay rose by over 40% between 2005 and 2007, while combined inflation for these two years ran at just over 9%.
TASC director and co-author of the report Paula Clancy said today:

“The economic crisis has rightly focused attention on how we run our businesses. Corporate governance is at risk when people are overextended. Mapping the Golden Circle shows where the risk of overextension lies. We know too that when people know each other very well and share similar backgrounds, as many in the Director Network do, companies run the risk of ‘groupthink’, where decisions are made that ignore alternative evidence as a result of a group’s desire to reach consensus.”

Ms Clancy said that this piece of research should be used to pave the way for improved corporate governance in the future:

“Ireland now needs a new statutory basis for corporate governance. This could include substantially restricting the number of directorships an individual can hold, reducing or eliminating cross-directorships and introducing a quota to increase the number of women sitting on boards. The issue of pay and its potential to compromise decision-taking must also be examined. It is vital for the future that the public interest be rigorously safeguarded in state-owned bodies and private companies which play key roles in the Irish economy. This can only be achieved by strengthening the rules and regulations governing how business is conducted”, Ms. Clancy concluded.
http://www.tascnet.ie/upload/file/MtGC%20ISSU.pdf

tayto lover

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Yes, much much easier to blame everyone else and get them to pay for it, rather than the filthy fat wealthly corrupt golden cirlce in Ireland that caused it.

Thanks for that. I always wanted to know who the Golden Circle were.

The Quadratic Equation

tayto lover wrote: »

Thanks for that. I always wanted to know who the Golden Circle were.

Not surprising it's kept from you, they control and own the media. This is gangsterland supreme. This country is no better than Albania, and just like the Albanians, we're kept in the dark and fed muck about how great Albania is and how well run it is.

dxhound2005

:mad:

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Not surprising it's kept from you, they control and own the media. This is gangsterland supreme. This country is no better than Albania, and just like the Albanians, we're kept in the dark and fed muck about how great Albania is and how well run it is.

Comrade Enver Hoxha was a great favourite of the Left back in the day.

The Quadratic Equation

dxhound2005 wrote: »

:mad:

Comrade Enver Hoxha was a great favourite of the Left back in the day.

and Joseph Goebbels was the right wing master of propaganda.

Right Vs Left = fail again, but I can see how it would suit the vested intrests.

Ian64

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Yes, much much easier to blame everyone else and get them to pay for it, rather than the filthy fat wealthly corrupt golden cirlce in Ireland that caused it.

So what?
So one group, a large group, held directorships in some of Irelands leading private companies, eh, the key word is private companies. The shareholder of CRH, Independent News and Media, Ryanair etc are not answerable to a left wing biased organization like the Thinktank for action and social change!
While arguments can be made as to putting representatives of trade unions and other groups on the boards of State Companies to ensure they remain under-productive and moribund(like Brendan Ogles "spoilt members" demanding the gravey in the ESB) the government and lefties have no right or authority to decide who sits on the boards of private companies.
And all this has nothing to do with the noisy few whinging about a household property tax, something one would imagine the ULA/SWP/PIRA gang would approve since they believe all property is theft!

tayto lover

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Not surprising it's kept from you, they control and own the media. This is gangsterland supreme. This country is no better than Albania, and just like the Albanians, we're kept in the dark and fed muck about how great Albania is and how well run it is.

Yes these are the golfing buddies of the F.F. and F.G. parties. The so-called elite yet so crooked and protected. We need a coup badly in this country.

Ian64

The other Golden Circle:
The SSIA Bandits (how much free money did you get?)
Semi-state employees (Their own Union leader described them as spoilt and greedy)
The thousands who bought second homes so they could rent them at outragous prices!
The dolites who have never done a days work, get everything paid for them, then demand more because they are "Disadvantaged"!
My point is curruption is everywhere in Irish society, from those buying smuggled cigarettes to those working and signing etc.

tayto lover

Ian64 wrote: »

The other Golden Circle:
The SSIA Bandits (how much free money did you get?)
Semi-state employees (Their own Union leader described them as spoilt and greedy)
The thousands who bought second homes so they could rent them at outragous prices!
The dolites who have never done a days work, get everything paid for them, then demand more because they are "Disadvantaged"!
My point is curruption is everywhere in Irish society, from those buying smuggled cigarettes to those working and signing etc.

Another good Party attempt to deflect blame.

Ian64

tayto lover wrote: »

Another good Party attempt to deflect blame.

It would be if I was stupid enough to be a member of a political party!
Greed was and is everywhere in Irish society, get over it!

mandate

ok, I have copied and pasted this from a post I just read on Facebook. No doubt you will see it yourselves soon enough. Any thoughts anyone?

How you don’t have to legally pay Household Tax!!-
You wont get a bill because the charge is a Statute. People need to understand this: A Statute is a “legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed.”(Blacks Law Dictionary 4th edition). Who are those it governs? Us, the public. This household charge is a Statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government and only carries the force of law upon you if you consent to it which means that your legally obliged to pay if you consent or in other words go on to householdcharge.ie and register.

Your silence and inaction will also give the appearance of consent. If you do not consent, a Statute cannot affect you in any way whatsoever. The courts know this and the last thing they will do is tell you. In fact they will hide this from you at every opportunity they can. On the other hand, if you tell them, they will accept it because they know it is actually true. According to the above definitions a statutory instrument is a contract. If you register for this “charge” you are consenting to this statuate ie: signing the contract. This is why the Government are ASKING the people to register and not just billing them instead.

Potential-Monke

mandate wrote: »

ok, I have copied and pasted this from a post I just read on Facebook. No doubt you will see it yourselves soon enough. Any thoughts anyone?

How you don’t have to legally pay Household Tax!!-
You wont get a bill because the charge is a Statute. People need to understand this: A Statute is a “legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed.”(Blacks Law Dictionary 4th edition). Who are those it governs? Us, the public. This household charge is a Statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government and only carries the force of law upon you if you consent to it which means that your legally obliged to pay if you consent or in other words go on to householdcharge.ie and register.

Your silence and inaction will also give the appearance of consent. If you do not consent, a Statute cannot affect you in any way whatsoever. The courts know this and the last thing they will do is tell you. In fact they will hide this from you at every opportunity they can. On the other hand, if you tell them, they will accept it because they know it is actually true. According to the above definitions a statutory instrument is a contract. If you register for this “charge” you are consenting to this statuate ie: signing the contract. This is why the Government are ASKING the people to register and not just billing them instead.

That sounds very free-man like...

The Quadratic Equation

mandate wrote: »

ok, I have copied and pasted this from a post I just read on Facebook. No doubt you will see it yourselves soon enough. Any thoughts anyone?

How you don’t have to legally pay Household Tax!!-
You wont get a bill because the charge is a Statute. People need to understand this: A Statute is a “legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed.”(Blacks Law Dictionary 4th edition). Who are those it governs? Us, the public. This household charge is a Statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government and only carries the force of law upon you if you consent to it which means that your legally obliged to pay if you consent or in other words go on to householdcharge.ie and register.

Your silence and inaction will also give the appearance of consent. If you do not consent, a Statute cannot affect you in any way whatsoever. The courts know this and the last thing they will do is tell you. In fact they will hide this from you at every opportunity they can. On the other hand, if you tell them, they will accept it because they know it is actually true. According to the above definitions a statutory instrument is a contract. If you register for this “charge” you are consenting to this statuate ie: signing the contract. This is why the Government are ASKING the people to register and not just billing them instead.

Hmmm :rolleyes:

So what's the difference between that and motor tax ?

mandate

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Hmmm :rolleyes:

So what's the difference between that and motor tax ?

Every year you get a form in the post from the motor tax office asking you to fill it out or go online and pay.

There has been no official correspondence from the government by way of letter, or by any other means, to ask the public to pay this household charge.

mandate

mandate wrote: »

ok, I have copied and pasted this from a post I just read on Facebook. No doubt you will see it yourselves soon enough. Any thoughts anyone?

How you don’t have to legally pay Household Tax!!-
You wont get a bill because the charge is a Statute. People need to understand this: A Statute is a “legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed.”(Blacks Law Dictionary 4th edition). Who are those it governs? Us, the public. This household charge is a Statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government and only carries the force of law upon you if you consent to it which means that your legally obliged to pay if you consent or in other words go on to householdcharge.ie and register.

Your silence and inaction will also give the appearance of consent. If you do not consent, a Statute cannot affect you in any way whatsoever. The courts know this and the last thing they will do is tell you. In fact they will hide this from you at every opportunity they can. On the other hand, if you tell them, they will accept it because they know it is actually true. According to the above definitions a statutory instrument is a contract. If you register for this “charge” you are consenting to this statuate ie: signing the contract. This is why the Government are ASKING the people to register and not just billing them instead.

So, if I understand this correctly, all you need to do is send in a letter stating that you don't accept this statute and therefore will refuse to pay, then they're not able to pursue you for the tax?

K-9

mandate wrote: »

Every year you get a form in the post from the motor tax office asking you to fill it out or go online and pay.

There has been no official correspondence from the government by way of letter, or by any other means, to ask the public to pay this household charge.

If you set up a business the Revenue don't write out to you to tell you to notify them, the onus is on you to register with them.Its the law and good luck arguing it wasn't up to you.

Its called Self Assessment.

halohead

If there is no truth in it, then why are they not sending out direct bills to people like they do with Motor tax or for bin charges? From the beginning I found it suspicious that they asked people to volunteer a registration for this tax and didn't contact them directly as they do for many other charges, they are hoping that the sheep mentality in this country will cause people to sign up and agree to it voluntarily. I personally will not be registering and will not entertain paying it unless I get something in the post sent directly to me. I think you'll find they are also having difficulty getting information about who to send it to as there are legal issues around that too.

Frank Black

Great the way the thread degenerates from the arguments on the options available on closing our exchequer gap to the cute hoor-ism 'how can we get out of paying'

It makes me laugh, that the bankers, developers and politicians are rounded on and castigated by the very people who display the same greedy traits when discussion turns to how we extricate ourselves from this mess. We're a nation of chancers and look where it's got us.

Sometimes I'm glad we lost our economic sovereignty - we don't have the requisite political or moral authority to deserve it.

Hijpo

The people would probably pay this tax if the government wernt still handing out pay rises to people already on huge money, theres obviously money there so use that instead of taxing us further.

Hijpo

ok, I have copied and pasted this from a post I just read on Facebook. No doubt you will see it yourselves soon enough. Any thoughts anyone?

How you don’t have to legally pay Household Tax!!-
You wont get a bill because the charge is a Statute. People need to understand this: A Statute is a “legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed.”(Blacks Law Dictionary 4th edition). Who are those it governs? Us, the public. This household charge is a Statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government and only carries the force of law upon you if you consent to it which means that your legally obliged to pay if you consent or in other words go on to householdcharge.ie and register.

Your silence and inaction will also give the appearance of consent. If you do not consent, a Statute cannot affect you in any way whatsoever. The courts know this and the last thing they will do is tell you. In fact they will hide this from you at every opportunity they can. On the other hand, if you tell them, they will accept it because they know it is actually true. According to the above definitions a statutory instrument is a contract. If you register for this “charge” you are consenting to this statuate ie: signing the contract. This is why the Government are ASKING the people to register and not just billing them instead

This just went up on facebook in response to that.

As activists involved with the campaign for non registration and non payment of the household tax and soon to be water tax we applaud everyone for willing to participate in this act of civil disobedience. However we have noticed these last few days a status being shared by many. This status claiming that you can LEGALLY not pay the tax. THIS IS COMPLETELY WRONG ADVICE, people must be aware that the gov, who, as elected by the people, have been given the consent of the people to enact laws. DO NOT BE UNDER ANY ILLUSION THAT YOU CAN AVOID PAYING THESE TAXES LEGALLY!!

What we are doing is civil disobedience and ILLEGAL. But unjust laws should be broken for if they weren’t, we as women would not have the vote, workers would not have rights, and slavery would still exist. As activists we recommend everyone join our campaign and become a member, as not only will you have the moral and physical support beside and behind you, the campaign from it’s central fund will legally support any member from funds raised via the membership. If people are comfortable with eventually paying in the region of 1000 + per year on property and water taxes then by all means pay, but if not then please get involved, because thousands and thousands together (which is what we are) is better than one alone, but do so knowing all the FACTS and not the FICTION

Ian64

Deleted User wrote: »

So, if I understand this correctly, all you need to do is send in a letter stating that you don't accept this statute and therefore will refuse to pay, then they're not able to pursue you for the tax?

Yeah thats right, oh and when you are at it tell them you dont accept vat,paye,usc as well and then you wont have to pay them either!
DUH!!!

Ian64

halohead wrote: »

From the beginning I found it suspicious that they asked people to volunteer a registration for this tax and didn't contact them directly as they do for many other charges, they are hoping that the sheep mentality in this country will cause people to sign up and agree to it voluntarily. I personally will not be registering and will not entertain paying it unless I get something in the post sent directly to me. I think you'll find they are also having difficulty getting information about who to send it to as there are legal issues around that too.

If there is no truth in it, then why are they not sending out direct bills to people like they do with Motor tax or for bin charges? EH, before they send you a motor tax bill they make you "register" your ownership of the car! DUHHHH!!

squod

black francis wrote: »

We're a nation of chancers and look where it's got us.

Speak for yourself.

black francis wrote: »

Great the way the thread degenerates from the arguments on the options available on closing our exchequer gap to the cute hoor-ism 'how can we get out of paying'

La-di-da........ look at me. I can afford to pay another ridiculous tax.:D
Good for you!

Frank Black

squod wrote: »

Speak for yourself.



La-di-da........ look at me. I can afford to pay another ridiculous tax.:D
Good for you!

Thanks very much - it's nice to be able to all right.

Maybe someday, if you work real hard you'll be able to as well.

Until then, keep on trollin' :rolleyes:

squod

It's not a troll. As you well know this household charge is about as much use to us financially as poo on a stick. Pay up if you want. But don't condemn those who rightly disagree with you.

Galtee

Ian64 wrote: »

So what?
So one group, a large group, held directorships in some of Irelands leading private companies, eh, the key word is private companies. The shareholder of CRH, Independent News and Media, Ryanair etc are not answerable to a left wing biased organization like the Thinktank for action and social change!
While arguments can be made as to putting representatives of trade unions and other groups on the boards of State Companies to ensure they remain under-productive and moribund(like Brendan Ogles "spoilt members" demanding the gravey in the ESB) the government and lefties have no right or authority to decide who sits on the boards of private companies.
And all this has nothing to do with the noisy few whinging about a household property tax, something one would imagine the ULA/SWP/PIRA gang would approve since they believe all property is theft!

The same could be said for the tickets held by the bondholders, the key word is private as you say yourself. :rolleyes:

Galtee

black francis wrote: »

Thanks very much - it's nice to be able to all right.

Maybe someday, if you work real hard you'll be able to as well.

Until then, keep on trollin' :rolleyes:

Careful with the sloganeering, I know you have such a high opinion of yourself you wouldn't want to be branded a hypocrite.

Bruthal

black francis wrote: »

Great the way the thread degenerates from the arguments on the options available on closing our exchequer gap to the cute hoor-ism 'how can we get out of paying'

The thread asked if you will pay the new tax, not how to close the gap.

Frank Black

robbie7730 wrote: »

The thread asked if you will pay the new tax, not how to close the gap.

Oh, apologies.

I thought it was the 'how to weasel out of your taxes using dumbass Freeman arguments' thread.

The Quadratic Equation

mandate wrote: »

Every year you get a form in the post from the motor tax office asking you to fill it out or go online and pay.

There has been no official correspondence from the government by way of letter, or by any other means, to ask the public to pay this household charge.

Only if you register your car ownership.

And if you don't, and don't pay your motor tax, you can still get fined and get your car lifted, so explain that ?

A large number of people withholding payment until March 2013 is how this tax can be broken, not by pseudo legal arguments.