Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

This thread is about the Household charge.

FG clearly said they would do it & have been true to their word.
The people voted for that? end of.

No the people voted for what F.G. promised them but all they got was lies instead of that. This Govt is built on lies and nothing else.

tayto lover

Bishop_Donal wrote: »

Find out the compliance level with the NPPR payment for this year. I'll bet it isn't a patch on the household charge.

I'd say DOF are thrilled with the number who have paid so far.

I'd say you were tongue in cheek with that.

Ian64

The SWP/ULA/PIRA lefties have a lot in common with the right wing extreme Catholic group Youth Defence;
They both depend on lies,false accusations, and scaremongering in hope of achieving their ends

Frank Black

tayto lover wrote: »

No the people voted for what F.G. promised them but all they got was lies instead of that. This Govt is built on lies and nothing else.

Anyone who believes the lies told to them by politicians in an election campaign doesn't have the requisite intelligence to deserve a vote imo.

Did people really believe that FG were going to magically close an €18bn gap without raising taxes and cutting services? Nevermind paying back the banking debts.

tayto lover

Ian64 wrote: »

The SWP/ULA/PIRA lefties have a lot in common with the right wing extreme Catholic group Youth Defence;
They both depend on lies,false accusations, and scaremongering in hope of achieving their ends

The biggest liars seem to be F.G. at the minute though.

Slick50

Ian64 wrote: »

They didnt get elected by default, they got elected because enough people went out and voted for them!
Like most of the selfish "gimme something for nothing" brigade on here you only want democracy if and when it suits you.

No, enough people didn't vote for them, that is why they are in a coalition. And the only reason they got as many seats as they did is because people where so sick of FF.

There is no need for the personal attack. I haven't asked you or anybody else for anything for nothing. I paid €14,000 stamp duty, and got nothing for it, is that what you mean?

Slick50

black francis wrote: »

Anyone who believes the lies told to them by politicians in an election campaign doesn't have the requisite intelligence to deserve a vote imo.

When was this introduced? How can we believe anything they say then?

Ian64 wrote: »

Like most of the selfish "gimme something for nothing" brigade on here you only want democracy if and when it suits you.

Is that the kind of democracy you hold so dear Ian64.

black francis wrote: »

Did people really believe that FG were going to magically close an €18bn gap without raising taxes and cutting services? Nevermind paying back the banking debts.

No, but I find this particular tax abhorrent, I don't want any taxes attached to my home.

Ian64

Slick50 wrote: »

When was this introduced? How can we believe anything they say then?



Is that the kind of democracy you hold so dear Ian64.



No, but I find this particular tax abhorrent, I don't want any taxes attached to my home.

If you dont want any taxes attached to your home I presume you will be returning all the mortgage Interest relief that you have recieved!

Bruthal

Ian64 wrote: »

If you dont want any taxes attached to your home I presume you will be returning all the mortgage Interest relief that you have recieved!

Sounds good, as presumably they will get thier stamp duty back in your little deal there.

Frank Black

Slick50 wrote: »

How can we believe anything they say then?

You can't.

galwayrush

VRT is an illegal tax on cars, but up to now, the fine from Europe for having it was far less than it brought in. Apparently, the fine will be increased later this year by such an amount that will make it no longer profitable for the Government, so expect more taxes to make up for it.

Ghandee

galwayrush wrote: »

VRT is an illegal tax on cars, but up to now, the fine from Europe for having it was far less than it brought in. Apparently, the fine will be increased later this year by such an amount that will make it no longer profitable for the Government, so expect more taxes to make up for it.

Are you serious?

This country persevered with a tax in place that was illegal?:eek:

I genuinely didn't know that!

K-9

mikom wrote: »

There will be blood if they try this tactic.

Yeah, Irish men have murdered over water and land.

The Quadratic Equation

Ian64 wrote: »

The dolites in their council houses who pay for nothing will be exempt from the charge, which is madness.
Anyone who doesnt pay the charge should have the right to vote taken off them.

You must be delightedly smug that Ireland is a plutocracy. No wonder your ilk want to hold onto it.

I must say, you're the gift that keeps on giving for the anti household tax side of the argument.

The Quadratic Equation

Ian64 wrote: »

They both depend on lies,false accusations, and scaremongering in hope of achieving their ends

Sounds just like you and FG/FF
And now you're a religious bigot to boot, lol

K-9

Am Chile wrote: »

Link please, the last time I and others checked (Some who voted fg) ( Not me) the blueshirts came out against a property tax.

http://www.businessandfinance.ie/cat_news_detail.jsp?itemID=3360

Yeah but when Kenny and others were challenged on it they admitted there would be a charge, just it would be up to the councils.

chasm

galwayrush wrote: »

VRT is an illegal tax on cars, but up to now, the fine from Europe for having it was far less than it brought in. Apparently, the fine will be increased later this year by such an amount that will make it no longer profitable for the Government, so expect more taxes to make up for it.

Ghandee wrote: »

Are you serious?

This country persevered with a tax in place that was illegal?:eek:

I genuinely didn't know that!

That's because it isnt illegal. That claim comes up regularly in the motors section on here.

http://www.motorcheck.ie/blog/is-vrt-a-legal-tax/

"While Ryan argues that VRT is an illegal tax, a report prepared by Denis Murphy for the Commission on Taxation states, ‘The EU has commented that although VRT is legal it is totally contrary to the spirit of the single market and has recommended that it be phased out over a 5 to 10 year period‘.

Whilst it may be ‘unpopular’ this doesn’t mean that it’s illegal. A Revenue spokesperson pointed out to Motorcheck.ie that Ireland is only one of sixteen european members that impose VRT. i.e. Denmark, Spain, Greece, Italy, Ireland, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal, Finland, Hungary, Latvia, Malta, Slovenia, Cyprus and Poland.

The official legal position in Europe can be found on the Commission’s website here where it states “At present there is little Community legislation, or harmonisation of national fiscal provisions, applied by the Member States in the area of passenger car taxation. Therefore, it is for each Member State to lay down national provisions for the taxation of these cars. The few pieces of legislation currently in force mainly cover the cross-border aspects of car taxation”. "

Noreen1

K-9 wrote: »

This is like arguing tax with a libertarian! As black francis said, when do the campaigns against motor tax, VRT, VAT, DIRT etc. all start? Ron Paul is running in the wrong country! .

The campaign against VRT has been running for years.:D Our law-abiding Government just chose to ignore European law while the tax intake was greater than the fines imposed.:p

K-9 wrote: »

Don't know why you are still going on about this. I agree group water schemes shouldn't have to pay, it seems the Govt. do to.

But you choose to ignore the fact that many people who have already paid their way in Group water schemes will still be charged because of a technicality.

Group schemes or ordinary taxation. If it's taxation the country clearly isn't paying enough tax, taxes don't even cover Welfare and PS pay, never mind basic services.

True. However, that doesn't alter the fact that people are now going to be taxed on necessities. Water, in particular, is a reprehensible item to tax imo.

Never said waste was acceptable either. At least you don't have some unachievable ideal target, just a vague one.

Nothing vague about abolishing unnecessary quangos, outlandish expenses, whether by TDs, the Seanad, or State bodies/Depts.
Nothing vague, either, about wanting to end ridiculous Directorships for friends of various TDs. Quantifying the savings, when records are not available to me, are problematic, however.

Given the size of mortgages in this country I doubt it. 

Given the number of distressed mortgages in this Country, I wonder what you are basing that doubt on?

Nice histrionics.



More histrionics. I've noticed it for the last 3/4 years! :D

Ah! Dismiss my points as histrionics, rather than debate them. Interesting.

It's exactly why people don't like any tax!

There is a big difference between not liking any tax, and being afraid that you will be unable to afford the essentials.
A home and water are essentials. Home ownership may not be essential, however, landlords will undoubtedly pass the charge onto their tenants, one way or another.

Well "property always goes up" and "you can't go wrong with property" has gone anyway.

I never believed that. I do feel sorry for those who did, and used that belief as a basis for buying their home.

I said Irish people have a fascination with the ould plot for years. Prior to the bubble is irrelevant as obviously my point includes prior to the bubble. It's my whole point, after a catastrophic crash people still have this emotional attachment.

People have a basic need for security. That is not equivalent to a "fascination with the ould plot".

People said they couldn't pay the USC, the pension levy etc. Its what people do when taxes are raised.

Indeed. Do you have any proof, however, that all those who said they couldn't pay still have enough money to provide for the essentials, for themselves and their children?
Perhaps I imagined various reports about people being unable to pay their ESB?Heating bills?

Cancel the IMF/EU loans tomorrow, the deficit issue still remains. There is no easy way out of it, nothing that doesn't involve pain for ordinary. When welfare costs €26/27 Billion and tax revenue is €33/34 Billion, I don't know what people hope for, much as I hope it would enough no pain.[/QUOTE]

The deficit will have to be addressed. I haven't argued otherwise.
We seem to disagree on how it should be addressed, however.
As I stated previously, taxing people on the essentials is reprehensible imo.

dvpower

Noreen1 wrote: »

The campaign against VRT has been running for years.:D Our law-abiding Government just chose to ignore European law while the tax intake was greater than the fines imposed.:p

What are these EU VRT fines? This is the first time I've heard of them.

Ian64

dvpower wrote: »

What are these EU VRT fines? This is the first time I've heard of them.

You havn,t heard of them because they dont exist because the Government didn't break any E.U. rules, just more looney left lies!

Slick50

Ian64 wrote: »

If you dont want any taxes attached to your home I presume you will be returning all the mortgage Interest relief that you have recieved!

MIR, is a tax allowance in recognition of the fact that I am providing accommodation for myself. It is not giving me anything, it is just taking less. But yes I will gladly swap it for my stamp duty.

tayto lover

Ian64 wrote: »

You havn,t heard of them because they dont exist because the Government didn't break any E.U. rules, just more looney left lies!

I think you should have called yourself Enda64 as you seem to have been set up just to defend his policies.
I do not have any time for any political parties because i believe they are all a self-serving bunch. However I have time for the ordinary working man who is being made pay for the crimes of politicians and bankers and the blindness of regulators.

Ian64

tayto lover wrote: »

I think you should have called yourself Enda64 as you seem to have been set up just to defend his policies.
I do not have any time for any political parties because i believe they are all a self-serving bunch. However I have time for the ordinary working man who is being made pay for the crimes of politicians and bankers and the blindness of regulators.

Not to mention the greed of those who stuck their noses in the SSIA trough, bought second homes to rent out, and repeatedly auctioned their vote to the highest bidder.
Easy to blame the everyone else!

Ian64

Slick50 wrote: »

MIR, is a tax allowance in recognition of the fact that I am providing accommodation for myself. It is not giving me anything, it is just taking less. But yes I will gladly swap it for my stamp duty.

MIR is a handout plain and simple, Stamp duty is NOT a housing tax it is a transaction tax.
By your logic car owners should get a handout because they are providing their own transport!
Wake up and get real.

dxhound2005

We might get used to a property tax soon enough just like all our neighbours in Europe. We had it for 50 years or so and although it was an imperfect system I don't actually recall any great clamour for it's abolition before Fianna Fail used that to buy the election in the mid 1970's. The system of using central taxation to to cover everything was always bound to run into trouble. Hence we have refuse charges and we can look forward to metered water charges.

Central taxation was boosted by an increase in stamp duty returns especially in the last 20 years or so but a property tax will be a better model for the long term. It is unlikely that the TD's who oppose it will ever have the responsibility of exercising power but if they do I predict that even they would not abolish it if it is up and running for a few years. It suits their purposes to agitate against new taxes but they do not really have the interests of private property owners at heart.

Bruthal

Ian64 wrote: »

MIR is a handout plain and simple, Stamp duty is NOT a housing tax it is a transaction tax.
By your logic car owners should get a handout because they are providing their own transport!
Wake up and get real.

A transaction tax? It is another form of property tax. You argue for people to return their MIR if they dont agree their home should be a tax target. Well then, return their stamp duty, something they would not have forked out if not buying their home.

But no, you call it a transaction tax, so this means it was completely disconnected from a tax for buying a home. So all the government have to do to fool some, is name a tax as something other than what it is.

tayto lover

Ian64 wrote: »

Not to mention the greed of those who stuck their noses in the SSIA trough, bought second homes to rent out, and repeatedly auctioned their vote to the highest bidder.
Easy to blame the everyone else!

No but it seems to be easy to deflect the blame on to ordinary people. They did not make the laws or appoint the Regulator. They were not welcome in the Galway Tent, appointed to Quangos and given privileged positions because they were close to politicians.
No you keep on defending your F.G. party and deflecting the blame and cost to decent people.

galwayrush

We have obscene pensions for top civil servants that we can not afford,
We have NAMA that pays extremely generous salaries to whom would otherwise be bankrupt builders/ developers.
116 million spent on regeneration in Limerick city and not a single house built.
A tiny example of the terrible waste in this country..

Taxes are not a problem for most people, but we'd like them to go to proper use rather than the shocking waste of money we have in this country.
The Government should tackle the waste first.

Mr NoTV

This country is stuffed, screwed, broken and virtually unrepairable. Taxing those that remain here will not achieve anything other than angering them. You cannot tax your way out of recession and the government knows that ... not one country has been able to do so. The monies they receive will go straight into the pockets of their friends and the overpaid workers in the system. Nobody will be prosecuted for the corruption that brought this country to this state and everybody knows it. Any investigations will turn into a farce like the Bertie saga. It's embarrassing. .... will I pay? No.

dxhound2005

Mr NoTV wrote: »

This country is stuffed, screwed, broken and virtually unrepairable. Taxing those that remain here will not achieve anything other than angering them. You cannot tax your way out of recession and the government knows that ... not one country has been able to do so. The monies they receive will go straight into the pockets of their friends and the overpaid workers in the system. Nobody will be prosecuted for the corruption that brought this country to this state and everybody knows it. Any investigations will turn into a farce like the Bertie saga. It's embarrassing. .... will I pay? No.

This tax will go into the Local Government Fund.

Financial Implications of the Bill
The Bill has no direct financial implications for the Exchequer as
the revenue from the €100 household charge will be lodged to the
Local Government Fund out of which funding will be provided by
the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local
Government to local authorities in the form of General-Purpose
Grants.
It is estimated that there are some 1.6 million residential properties
that will be liable to the charge. If the self-assessment household
charge is paid in respect of all liable properties income could amount
to €160 million annually. In common with many new taxation
measures, the actual amount of the yield from the household charge
will only be known in light of experience of collection of the charge.
Steps will be taken to minimise the costs arising with
implementation of the household charge. Payment will be accepted
through a web-site and through the post by the LGMA.

As far as Public Services wages are concerned (if that is what you meant by overpaid workers) the wage bill has been reducing since 2008 and by 2015 is projected to be down by 20%.