Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

greenpilot

dvpower wrote: »

Good on ya. That'll put us in our place:pac:

I knew you would say that. The fact is, I couldnt really give a hoot what you guys think as its quite funny watching you dig bigger holes for yourselves while the rest of us pay for your dole.......meanwhile, back in the real world.......

dxhound2005

greenpilot wrote: »

Just ignore their posts. The same thing happened BishopDonal earlier. Where is he now? These state pawns eventually run out of steam when they realise that the real world finally holds sway. I figure Dvpower and Dxhound are one and the same person anyway. I have been copying and pasting all their posts so that, come the end of the month, I shall see them eat humble pie!! Dont Register, Dont Pay, Dont be a bloody Sheep!!

Please say what percentage you think will have paid by 31 March. My prediction is 58% and I am happy to have anyone show me if I was wrong come the time.

Mr CJ

DV power, what in gods name is your problem?? I have almost read every post and your just always the same pouncing on the people who object and leaving smart remarks now and then,

Honest question are you Mr Hogan himself??? Because I honestly am lost at how someone from the public can support such a tax were the funds raised will be wired straight away outside of this country.

If your not part of the government all I can say is im so fkn glad there are not many of you out there!

People who have worked all there lives and paid for there homes twice over and now young couples struggling to pay of mortgages are made to pay out even more to support bond holders and pay of the criminal activities by people who to this day are walking around scot free and you think this is fine???

(Side note, please dont think of replying to this and say you do not think its fine because almost every post proves that you get stressed when people argue about this tax, clearly you think its great and even if you did not agree with it you would not show as much objection to the no people)

We can all agree that way over 50% think this is completely unfair and a ripoff so why are you dead nuts on people paying this and try to put down anyone who makes comments about it and you also use scare tactics through your comments! Your no better than the rest of them!! Back of and have some respect for the majority of the people and Im sure I speak for many here and outside of this forum!

Congrats I think you are the master sheep!!

goz83

greenpilot wrote: »

Just ignore their posts. The same thing happened BishopDonal earlier. Where is he now? These state pawns eventually run out of steam when they realise that the real world finally holds sway. I figure Dvpower and Dxhound are one and the same person anyway. I have been copying and pasting all their posts so that, come the end of the month, I shall see them eat humble pie!! Dont Register, Dont Pay, Dont be a bloody Sheep!!

Good observation. I hadn't spotted that until you said so. I see the responses follow the very same pattern. Namely avoiding answering what he can use to try to ruffle some feathers. The most annoying thing is that my taxes pay for his internet access. Sponge. And he is not required to pay the charge because we pay his rent anyway.

goz83

Mr CJ wrote: »

Im sure I speak for many here

Congrats I think you are the master sheep!!

The boards pole would suggest you do under the circumstances. And certainly for me, as one part of a young couple, with kids and a hefty mortgage to put a stable roof over their heads. The load becomes heavier as more taxes are thrown into the mix.

I gladly pay taxes for the right reasons. This includes supporting those who cannot support themselves, or their families. Paying for those who simply don't want to work, or put in any effort is what irritates me. I am sure dv is one of those spongers, who built up a few weeks of stamps a few years ago and is "entitled" to claim his benefits.

Mr CJ

goz83 wrote: »

The boards pole would suggest you do under the circumstances. And certainly for me, as one part of a young couple, with kids and a hefty mortgage to put a stable roof over their heads. The load becomes heavier as more taxes are thrown into the mix.

I gladly pay taxes for the right reasons. This includes supporting those who cannot support themselves, or their families. Paying for those who simply don't want to work, or put in any effort is what irritates me. I am sure dv is one of those spongers, who built up a few weeks of stamps a few years ago and is "entitled" to claim his benefits.

To be honest people like DV do exist obviously in reality and they should be ignored, dont waste your energy on them, vent your anger on what matters like this new charge and try be a bit active even if it means calling into a couple of neighbours and letting them know your not paying. There still is a lot of homes who dont know much about the protest they need to know they are supported by hundreds of thousands! People should not give into scare tactics they will not work now we all had enough!!

Lets think about it we went through several years with a corrupt government, these new guys are no different already giving un-justified pay rises to there buddies and showing the typical FF arrogance and smug behaviour, we need to stop them now and let them know we want change and we aint putting up with anymore crap!!!

Dont register dont pay, it is very important, this is much much bigger than just the household charge, people need to realise this.

dvpower

greenpilot wrote: »

I figure Dvpower and Dxhound are one and the same person anyway.

goz83 wrote: »

I am sure dv is one of those spongers...

Mr CJ wrote: »

Honest question are you Mr Hogan himself???

Ye have the measure of me. I'm either Dxhound, a sponger or the Minister for the Environment (maybe all three).

IHateMondays

KTRIC wrote: »

I'm renting a house, does my landlord or myself pay it?

Nope as far as I'm aware, its down to the landlord...Mines a miserable git and I'm only delighted he'll be paying it

Ghandee

IHateMondays wrote: »

Nope as far as I'm aware, its down to the landlord...Mines a miserable git and I'm only delighted he'll be paying it

Unsurprisingly, a few landlords have already been on this thread to say they will be passing the charge on to their tenants.

dvpower

Mr CJ wrote: »

People who have worked all there lives and paid for there homes twice over and now young couples struggling to pay of mortgages are made to pay out even more to support bond holders and pay of the criminal activities by people who to this day are walking around scot free and you think this is fine???

(Side note, please dont think of replying to this and say you do not think its fine because almost every post proves that you get stressed when people argue about this tax, clearly you think its great and even if you did not agree with it you would not show as much objection to the no people)

I think a property tax is a good idea in principle. This obviously isn't the best time to be introducing one, but its been driven by the troika, so we have very little leeway. I guess the Government could renegotiate it, but I expect the price we would pay would be too big.

I think saying its being used to pay off bondholders is a simplistic analysis. I don't agree with paying off the bondholders but I think the ship has sailed on that decision and we should be concentrating on getting a deal on the promissory notes.

Mr CJ wrote: »

We can all agree that way over 50% think this is completely unfair and a ripoff so why are you dead nuts on people paying this and try to put down anyone who makes comments about it and you also use scare tactics through your comments! Your no better than the rest of them!!

No. we can't agree this. Where does that figure come from?

And can you point to my scare tactics?

Mr CJ wrote: »

Back of and have some respect for the majority of the people and Im sure I speak for many here and outside of this forum!

I think I'm in the majority, but even if I wasn't, why should I back off? - this is a discussion forum, for discussion.

Mr CJ wrote: »

Congrats I think you are the master sheep!!

Honestly. The insults don't bother me at all.

IHateMondays

Ghandee wrote: »

Unsurprisingly, a few landlords have already been on this thread to say they will be passing the charge on to their tenants.

I'm not sure how their going to do it...I would love our landlord to rock up and ask us to pay it...
I'd be suspect alright about moving into a new place now, I reckon landlords will try and pass it off..:) Them chancers...

goz83

IHateMondays wrote: »

I'm not sure how their going to do it...I would love our landlord to rock up and ask us to pay it...
I'd be suspect alright about moving into a new place now, I reckon landlords will try and pass it off..:) Them chancers...

The people who are claiming their rent from welfare, most of whom pay the landlord a little extra under the counter, will likely be asked to pay more.

Slick50

dvpower wrote: »

I'd prefer if I had to pay no tax at all, but that's not the choice....

I'm not arguing that a property tax is a good thing.....

dvpower wrote: »

I think a property tax is a good idea in principle.

Which is it?

dvpower

Slick50 wrote: »

Which is it?

These things are perfectly consistent.
In my first post (selectively quoted) I said I wasn't making an arguement for a property tax - a simple statement of fact.
In my second (selectively quoted) post I say I agree with a property tax in principle, which I do.

What's with the nitpicking?

Rabidlamb

Well this isn't going well at all, in the interest of those of us who are on the waiver list will you hurry up & pay this charge before they lump it on VAT or something we can't avoid.
There's a good chap.

OldNotWIse

goz83 wrote: »

If your property (assuming you have one) is in negative equity, ignore the rest of this post.

Mate, you either don't have a clue, or are just trying to stir the s**t. The poster you responded to didn't have to have the house morphed to a cheaper location. The value dropped by location and therefore the value of the house too dropped. If someone buys a home for say 400k and over a 15 year period they pay lets say half. If the value drops to 200k, so what! That person can still trade in for a different home. However, If some in the past 5 years paid this amount, they are stuck and that's assuming they can pay the mortgage if they still have a job. That means no way to grow your family if you're stuck in a 1, or 2 bed apartment and no real chance of getting anywhere for a couple of decades.

By nature, we go with the flow and the flow was telling hundred and thousands of people to "buy now, or you never will afford a home". The banks certainly made it easy to borrow massive sums. And this household charge is just another step too far for so may people.

Mate? I'm gonna let that one go :rolleyes: Ok fair point regarding the "trading up" (something I had not considered) but I dont think this applies to everyone.

I agree the banks made it easy to borrow (even giving extra to furnish houses etc) but the mortgages were not mandatory. Perhaps there was pressure to "get onto the ladder" but some people chose to ignore this pressure because they knew that, quite simply, it was ludicrous to pay half a million for a 3 bed semi-detached dog box... and they were not willing to mortgage their asses off in order to obtain one.

Re the household charge, I dont think one hundred euro is too much to ask...but, having said that, Ireland being what it is, we all know this will be the thin edge of the wedge. If we give into it now, in ten years it will be probably be calculated as "10% the value your house was in 2007". Sneaky underhand tactics to bring in "small" charges which then become colossal overnight :eek: So for this reason, I think people are right to resist paying, we certainly wont be paying it

goz83

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Mate? I'm gonna let that one go :rolleyes: Ok fair point regarding the "trading up" (something I had not considered) but I dont think this applies to everyone.

I agree the banks made it easy to borrow (even giving extra to furnish houses etc) but the mortgages were not mandatory. Perhaps there was pressure to "get onto the ladder" but some people chose to ignore this pressure because they knew that, quite simply, it was ludicrous to pay half a million for a 3 bed semi-detached dog box... and they were not willing to mortgage their asses off in order to obtain one.

Re the household charge, I dont think one hundred euro is too much to ask...but, having said that, Ireland being what it is, we all know this will be the thin edge of the wedge. If we give into it now, in ten years it will be probably be calculated as "10% the value your house was in 2007". Sneaky underhand tactics to bring in "small" charges which then become colossal overnight :eek: So for this reason, I think people are right to resist paying, we certainly wont be paying it

I think that's one of the most constructive responses I have ever seen. Far beyond the ability of dvpower I suspect. All points I agree with, but I wish to explain one reason why people chose to pay up to a half million for a 3 bed semi. The answer is "children". While this certainly is not the case in many circumstances, it certainly was the biggest factor in mine. We had a toddler and a baby at the time we decided to buy. I knew eventually the bubble would burst, but there was no signs of it at the time and I didn't want to wait for years before being able to get a stable home for the family. I didn't go the extravagant route, borrowing extra for furniture and cars, as many were encouraged to do. I bought the house from my dad in a more or less direct trade transaction (obviously the banks were involved and all).

Why didn't we rent? They were going up too and although a mortgage was higher, at least we knew what the payments would be for 5 years on a fixed rate. We could also make the home ours and I gt to keep the neighbours I knew and trusted all my life (except for the rental next door). I did want stay here for maybe 10 years before doing a self build. That dream is far less realised now, as I am in the property trap.

The way I see it, if the government forced the banks to drop mortgage values to current price values, this would be the best stimulus for the country. People could actually spend. If our were dropped to current market value, our repayments would be half and we would buy a nice big 7 seater car for the family. Currently 3 kids, want more but circumstances make it very difficult to bring more life into the home.

Thats kind of off topic for the hhc, but the way i see it, it just puts more people in trouble. Only €8 per month? I know a couple of people who have gotten rid of the phone and their tv boxes because they couldn't afford these anymore. My own brother, i discovered yesterday had pawned his wedding ring. I thought those places had disappeared, but when he went to collect it yesterday, the queue was out the door. Some businesses flourish in these times.

Gophur

OldNotWIse wrote: »

.........
Re the household charge, I dont think one hundred euro is too much to ask............

In my case this €100 brings the annual total up to over €1,500. (Apparently I must pay my council a services charge that is based on the size of the engines in my cars)
Is that too much?

demanufactured

Dont register dont pay.
There is committees set up in most of the big towns around the country in protest of this tax.
Try and find out where your next local meeting is on anf attend it.
If you sign yourself up it will cost you 5 euro..this money goes towards printing of posters, flyers etc. and it will go towards barristers fees if you are brought to court.

There was marches held all over the country on the 25th of feb and there was a great show of people and we got support from local counsillers.

Last night in athlone there was a protest outside the council biulding and we got 4 councillers to sign a petition in support of the protest.

There is a rally planned for the 31st this month in dublin.....will let ye know where it it will go from and.to where.

demanufactured

odnauq wrote: »

The owner of the property pays and there will be a hefty fine for non payment.

If you dont pay the 100 euro...they will try to bring you to court to add 42 euro to it.

dvpower

murphy.engine wrote: »

what if you simply refuse to pay?

Interest and late payment fees will apply.

murphy.engine wrote: »

Is taxing a property legal anyway?

Yes

Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011

Local Government (Household charge) Regulations 2012

dvpower

demanufactured wrote: »

If you dont pay the 100 euro...they will try to bring you to court to add 42 euro to it.

There will be no court case - Interest and Late Payment fees will automatically apply.

dvpower

goz83 wrote: »

The way I see it, if the government forced the banks to drop mortgage values to current price values, this would be the best stimulus for the country. People could actually spend.

That would stimulate spending. Unfortunately the banks would need to be recapitalised if we did this. And where would this money come from? More borrowing from the EU/IMF

goz83 wrote: »

If our were dropped to current market value, our repayments would be half and we would buy a nice big 7 seater car for the family.

We would effectively be getting a loan from the EU/IMF to send abroad buying you a foreign made car but leaving our kids to pay for it in future debt repayments.

Frank Black

goz83 wrote: »

The way I see it, if the government forced the banks to drop mortgage values to current price values, this would be the best stimulus for the country. People could actually spend. If our were dropped to current market value, our repayments would be half and we would buy a nice big 7 seater car for the family. Currently 3 kids, want more but circumstances make it very difficult to bring more life into the home.

So basically, you would like taxpayers (who pretty much own all the banks) to pay for half your mortgage so you can go out a buy a nice new 7-seater car?

You made a poor investment decision, I don't see why I should have to pay for it.




I've registered and paid for the household charge btw - just like I suspect the majority will eventually.

aoife1981

I will pay, sick of the some polititions disagreeing with everything.
Country needs money - placing blame is a waste.
Think everyone should pay including social welfare people as they get exempt from too many things as it is.

demanufactured

More fool you

cowzerp

Not paying this, they can take me to court-im sure they'll have fun taking most the population to court!

we're taxed on our wages, taxed when spending our money, taxed for buying a car, taxed on the car, pay toll bridge taxes, then most the money we spend on petrol is for tax, it's taking the piiss and now they want people to pay a tax on their home with nothing in return and after most people payed massive tax to buy over inflated houses that are woth feck all.

dvpower

murphy.engine wrote: »

Couldn't have put it better, tax takes the biscuit in this country

We're actually lower than most western countries, even with recent increases.

goz83

dvpower wrote: »

That would stimulate spending. Unfortunately the banks would need to be recapitalised if we did this. And where would this money come from? More borrowing from the EU/IMF

I'm not sure of the residential mortgage debt figure, but I recall the sum not being that big and there were suggestions to alleviate this anyway to stimulate the economy. I don't recall the "source", but i think it was a headline in the independent in November. I did not suggest that a mortgage disappear, i only suggest the negative equity mortgages are dropped to neutral levels (current market value) in order to stimulate the economy. This would involve some burning of bond holders I would imagine.

dvpower wrote: »

We would effectively be getting a loan from the EU/IMF to send abroad buying you a foreign made car but leaving our kids to pay for it in future debt repayments.

As we don't have a domestic vehicle option, there is no argument. But, the government receive plenty of taxes from cars being brought in anyway. Plus, it would boost car sales, boosting jobs and putting money into the country. It would also help reduce our emissions in a more efficient vehicle....all this assuming i was to buy a new vehicle, but i never said that did i? I just said I would buy a nice big 7 seater.

goz83

black francis wrote: »

So basically, you would like taxpayers (who pretty much own all the banks) to pay for half your mortgage so you can go out a buy a nice new 7-seater car?

You made a poor investment decision, I don't see why I should have to pay for it.




I've registered and paid for the household charge btw - just like I suspect the majority will eventually.

You pay for TD cars. So why not mine

We can only make decisions based on what is put before us. Bankers knew what was on the way and knew it was just about to pop and they on peddling us s***e. The government took on the bank debt on behalf of us and saddled us all with it. Who made the wrong decision here? Me for wanting to put a stable roof over the heads of my family in an ever increasing property market, which we were convinced would take a very long time to stabilise/burst. Or, the government for allowing us to be lead down the path of debt. I mean look at the Eircom shares situation. Just one other example of the government hanging us out to dry for the benefit of their banking buddies.

I wonder if your attitude will be the same when they raise the charge to circa €800 for services you are not receiving.