Formula 1 2012: General Discussion Thread

Max_Charger

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The problem with Webber is despite having the same car as Seb he regularly comes nowhere. How Redbull still let him drive is beyond me, never mind Ferrari. He deserve nothing better than a mid field team IMO, just never performs as he should and to what the car is capable of.
Ferrari have an experienced driver in Alonso already, why the pressing need for another? The need a younger long term prospect who can stay there for years and work with them long term rather than the likes of Webber who'll be around for a year or two at most.


True, but there are still better prospect out there. I reckon the Perez move is far more likely.

I think you're suffering from a condition known as "vettelblindness" there, Webber is undoubtedly one of the best drivers in F1, but its the fact that Vettel is on another planet with his talent that he gets overshadowed. He's currently in 3rd place in the drivers standings, he finished in 3rd last year and the year before that. I dont know where you're getting the notion he "regularly comes nowhere" !? (Can you tell i'm a fan? )

Jordan 199

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cbjqj5Kidk

Scotty #

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The problem with Webber is despite having the same car as Seb he regularly comes nowhere. How Redbull still let him drive is beyond me, never mind Ferrari.

Didn't he have several head to heads with Seb last year?? and was in contention to win the drivers championship in 2010 going into the last race of the season?

I don't think it's fair to say 'they have the same car' - both cars have a different team of mechanics running different set ups and race strategies. By the time they get to the grid they are totally different cars. I think if Mark was given total freedom to race his own race he'd do better.

I think the fact that F1 has No1 and No2 drivers and 'team orders' has ruined the sport. I have no doubt that there are also 'agreements' between different teams. If F1 is truly a 'team sport' as Christian Horner and the likes keep telling us, then scrap the drivers championship altogether.

freestyla

OSI wrote: »

I'm not sure Mark would do well at Ferrari, especially mentally.

I think it's been fairly evident in recent years that he is not happy being somebodies number 2 driver, which he has been at Red Bull, and will definitely be at Ferrari.

I can't imagine he'd willingly go from being treated as number 2 in one of the front running teams that at least tries to hide their bias, to be being treated as a number 2 in a team that is not only struggling but openly shows bias to their top driver.

I actually think quite opposite and some how I feel this is not rumor anymore but Webber will replace Massa. Very logical transfer imo.

How come Webber is not enjoying being number 2? his number 2 for ages now (number 3 and lower in championships).

I think Webber should have figure out already what is needed to overtake Seb, Hamilton, Button more often on the track - especially to manage better his working environment, setups, relationships etc. He had Newey's car for years now! I'm a bit disappointed that Seb is doing all this better than him. Unless Seb is simple totally natural talent and can drive what ever however.

That's why he would be perfect to continue doing his thing and enjoy some millions salary for the next 2-3 years at Ferrari backing up Alonso's championship.

I would love to see Webber winning ofcourse, because he is nice lad, but.. yeah maybe he is too modest and working even harder to achieve wins is not priority for his happiness.
Fair enough but not a F1 racing driver attitude imo.

Or am I missing some clear evidence why he is loosing to Seb so much?

Oh I so hate this Ferrari's policy anyway to fancy 1 driver only :mad:

Myrddin

freestyla wrote: »

Or am I missing some clear evidence why he is loosing to Seb so much?

He was racing against a better driver, in the best car on the track. Simple. I rate Webber quite highly, I just think Vettel has the edge over him. He also gets a bad run of luck from time to time, & then you've team orders etc to contend with now so he's not doing as 'badly' as is being made out.

rua1972

I read an article about Webber v Vettel in the RB7 (2011 car) To get the blown diffuser working you had to get on the throttle very early. The point of the article was that Vettel did that perfectly while Webber couldn't get it done, because it goes against normal instincts to be on the gas that early. This year Vettel has more problems to go fast since there is no more blown diffusser, which makes it easier for Webber.
Sadly i can't find the article anymore i think it was on autosport.com

I thought it was when off-throttle that it made the most difference?

Charlie-Bravo

http://dai.ly/JeN4w5

Grosjean's lap in Sakir (FP3) is very sloppy. I don't know why Grosjean and Lotus even posted this on their facebook pages?!

LIGHTNING

LIGHTNING wrote: »

The off-throttle was banned this year.

Exactly, so surely it would be when lifting-off rather than getting on the gas that there's a drop in grip compared to last year?

Kevski

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly, so surely it would be when lifting-off rather than getting on the gas that there's a drop in grip compared to last year?

The majority of the grip came from blowing the diffuser when the throttle was open as more exhaust gases were emitted. Off-throttle blowing generated a lower level of downforce from the diffuser and was introduced so that the reduction in grip wouldn't be as significant when the throttle was closed. So while there is a drop in grip when lifting off, it is much less significant when compared to the drop when getting on the power.

Last year, Vettel's driving style meant that he was able to get on the power (ie open the throttle valve) earlier than Webber was, meaning that the flow of exhaust gases over the diffuser and all it's associated benefits increased sooner for him than it did for Webber. Now that that the position of the exhausts has been regulated it has become a lot more difficult to blow the gases over the diffuser, meaning that Vettel's talent for getting on the power early yields less of an advantage than it did last year. That's part of the reason why Webber has been a lot closer this year and why Vettel has been eager to try different exhaust configurations.

Jordan 199

PJTierney wrote: »

You did an excellent job on that poster PJ.

Jordan 199

Sauber C12 (1993). Concept by Mercedes Benz.



This was the first year Sauber entered F1. Back then the Mercedes engines were built by Ilmor, who also built the engines that powered Mika Hakkinen to his 1998 & 1999 WDC's.

By 1994, it was still 'Concept by Mercedes Benz' on the Sauber C13's engine cover.

The relationship between Sauber & Mercedes was tense in 1994 and was dissolved that year.

Jordan 199

johnnysmack wrote: »

That is actually a very clever thing for Sauber to do. Hope it works out for them and they keep improving.

With Sauber linked to Chelsea FC, perhaps Sauber might get some backing from Samsung. When Peter Sauber bought his team back from BMW, he pretty much lost all the sponsors BMW Sauber had. Long term Sauber sponsor Petronas defected to the works Mercedes team and other sponsors went to other teams or left the sport.

They have a good car this year, all they need is money from a major sponsor imo.

PJTierney

So the covers I designed for this French publication arrived:



It was free/charity work, but then Total said "let's give that leprechaun some VIP tickets for Silverstone"

Jordan 199

5 races down with 5 different drivers and teams winning. Amazing.

mickdw

PJTierney wrote: »

So the covers I designed for this French publication arrived:



It was free/charity work, but then Total said "let's give that leprechaun some VIP tickets for Silverstone"

You really are doing well and getting your name out there.
Are they paddock tickets you've got?

SilverScreen

Jordan 191 wrote: »

5 races down with 5 different drivers and teams winning. Amazing.

Incredible season so far. All we need now is for Kimi Raikkonen and Lotus to win in Monaco!

recyclebin

Hamilton, Webber, Grosjean and maybe a Sauber could realistically win a race this year as well.

Daniel S

I want Kimi to win at Monaco and Kamui/Schumi/Grosjean to win anywhere else.

recyclebin

recyclebin wrote: »

Hamilton, Webber, Grosjean and maybe a Sauber could realistically win a race this year as well.

Webber?

vectra

Daniel S wrote: »

I want Kimi to win at Monaco and Kamui/Schumi/Grosjean to win anywhere else.

Not sure if the Lotus is suited to slow corners so Monaco may just be a bit optimistic..
Would love to see it happening though..

Jordan 199

recyclebin wrote: »

Hamilton, Webber, Grosjean and maybe a Sauber could realistically win a race this year as well.

Hamilton will win races for sure this year.

vectra wrote: »

Not sure if the Lotus is suited to slow corners so Monaco may just be a bit optimistic..
Would love to see it happening though..

I wouldn't rule out Lotus winning at Monaco. Anything is possible.

Zagato

Jordan 191 wrote: »

I wouldn't rule out Lotus winning at Monaco. Anything is possible.

Yeah was just checking Kimi's record there. Won in 2005 and 2 other podiums '03 and '09. He's been unlucky with car failures a couple of times too.

kirving

I agree, if you don't run in Q3, you should lose a set of tyres automatically.

The problem with that though, it that they'll just cruise around. Maybe if you don't do a faster time in Q3 than in Q2, you lose a set of tyres?

frostie500

Here's a few photos from the paddock and pre race build up:

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I like the reflection of the Red Bull truck on the side the FIA unit in this photo

I was lucky enough to get down into the pitlane before the race started and drivers went to the grid so here's a few shots from that:

frostie500

I started looking through some of my photos on the way home and here's a few of my favourites from the early laps

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antomorro-sei

Photo's are quality Frostie! I took a few myself but they certainly put mine to shame

Glico Man

Tyres look like they're on some sort of life support machine. Really are an 'alive' part of the car.

Jordan 199

I have to say I'm very impressed with the way Williams bounced back from the awful season they had last year.

Getting Mike Coughlan and the Renault engines onboard are really paying off.

Glico Man

Jordan 191 wrote: »

I have to say I'm very impressed with the way Williams bounced back from the awful season they had last year.

Getting Mike Coughlan and the Renault engines onboard are really paying off.

Tbh after last season the only way was up, but who could've predicted a race win, on merit I might add, in only the 5th race of the season? Granted I'd liked to have seen the Senna name as race winner, but Maldonado, despite being a cheque-book racer, is a decent driver.