General Star Trek thread

pixelburp

I suppose it's always possible Troi truly was that great a therapist ... but yeah.

Why stop at Chain of Command? The Inner Light had Picard live a life for 40 years; all those emotional experiences of a lifetime - that we know he had a remembrance of, given his little flute playing at the end - then suddenly jettisoned back into his original body? In another show that'd be the basis for an entire character arc across a season!

ilovesmybrick

And I'm not just poking at Discovery here, I'm finding the same with ST: Picard too in fairness. It feels like the focus of ST (and other shows) is far to much on the drama and exposition than the actual characters and their stories

I will say that with Picard they have done a bit more character development. At least far more than with four seasons of Discovery. We know that Agnes was a researcher in robotics, and she had a prior relationship with Maddox and was recruited (flipped, brainwashed, not sure which here) by the Romulans. We know that Rios was previously in Star Fleet and left due to shenanigans by Starfleet security causing his Captain to commit suicide, leaving Rios with some fairly large trust issues. Raffi was previously Picards XO who is a bit f**ked up and bitter about leaving starfleet and a conspiracy nut (though right on that count).

I'm not saying it's great background and character development, but it's not bad for a ten episode season, and a lot better than Discovery. Now, I know all the character development rolls right back into supporting the overarching story, but at least it's present and there for a reason.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118534658#Comment_118534658

I'm talking about the Expanse in general and not the final rushed series (which still had more interpersonal moments than the entire 1st 3 seasons of DSC)

Sonics2k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118534482#Comment_118534482

See, I could accept that back in S1 of Discovery. But it's been 4 seasons now, that was plenty of time to get these things going.

I think DS9 managed to get those individual story lines out there, with say a focus on Keara in an episode, and the changes to Bajoran society, the sudden growth of religious zealots vs the secular values of Starfleet, the rescue of Li Nalas which then impacts further episodes.

Again, I'm not just faulting Discovery for this, it's common in a lot of shows now, but it's a real shame to see it happening with Discovery.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118535544#Comment_118535544

See, I could accept that back in S1 of Discovery. But it's been 4 seasons now, that was plenty of time to get these things going.

Exactly! The only reason I know some of the bridge crew's names is from Star Trek Timelines, and their name is really all I know. Three seasons of TOS and we knew bucketloads about the bridge crew and a fair bit about some ensigns and support staff.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118536102#Comment_118536102

Didn't think TOS would be a great example for fleshing out the crew. The gang outside Kirk, Spock and Bones were not that different to the Disco crew until the movies.

eadrom

Yeah I'm pretty sure Discovery is actually an attempt to follow the TOS model of focusing on just 1 or 2 people as opposed to the entire crew.

Kirk was everything in TOS. At least as much as Burnham is in Disco. I'd say there's barely an episode where he doesn't kick the butts, save the day, and/or get the babes. Spock and Bones were sidekicks. The rest of the crew just filled seats.

None of this is a problem necessarily, but the writing and production of Discovery just isn't good enough.

I remember that Picard taking an occasional backseat and not leading away teams was remarkable when TNG first aired. And he was old and bald and scrawny! People were expecting the captain to be the show.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538546#Comment_118538546

And he was old and bald and scrawny! People were expecting the captain to be the show.

Wil Wheaton is older now than Patrick Stewart was when TNG first aired!

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538546#Comment_118538546

Not just the writing, but the foundational elements of the casting is the problem; the other crew on Discovery are non entities, there to ocassionally look inspired. It might have been blunt, but at least Enterprise's other crew had "personalities" by way of postage stamp descriptors: the stoic alien; the cranky doctor; the Russian one; the Scottish one; the token (black!) woman. National stereotypes that wouldn't pass muster now for sure (and Nichelle Nichols famously nearly walked from the shoe, so little was her part), but at least by and large? They stood out.

Stark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539618#Comment_118539618

He did look old and bald and scrawny in those first episodes though. Surprised he was only in his mid-40s.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539665#Comment_118539665

Uhura stood out because of the politics behind her character. I know the Russian and Japanese characters were important in that sense too but they really only come into their own after Wrath of Khan. When it first came out would anyone have noticed if they didn't brink Chekov back as part of the cast.

We definitely have more on Owo and Detmer than we had on Sulu and Chekov. Blonde girl ( who may or may not be 2nd officer ) and black guy and asian guy who stand in the back are completely blank though.

I do really hate how California American the whole cast seem on Discovery.

Sonics2k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118540065#Comment_118540065

Oh the casting of a Russian and a Japanese guy were massive deals and caused huge controversy when TOS first aired. The Cold War had only just ended a few years previously, and a lot of Americans were still staunchly anti-Japanese. Especially those who hated the idea of the expansion of Japanese cars and machines across the US that were much cheaper than the American versions

eadrom

When TOS first aired the Russian wasn't even in it :). Chekov joined the crew in season 2 – which was 30 episodes later.

Back when "the Russian" was character development enough.

CastorTroy

Well Section 31 isn't dead

Are we ever going to see the Michelle Yeoh Star Trek series? –Luke

All I have to report is that the Georgiou-centric Section 31 spinoff of Star Trek: Discovery, which was officially set in motion more than three years ago, is still in development.

https://tvline.com/2022/01/27/chicago-pd-season-9-upton-car-crash-spoilers/

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543559#Comment_118543559

"In Development" can mean anything they like however. "In Development" can mean actually developing the show and putting stuff together to make it happen.

But "In Development" can also mean that the whole concept is stillborn and Kurtzman is trying to save a little face than admit that he had to cancel a pet project by the higher ups (who I'm still convinced are sitting on the likes of Lower Decks to keep him from messing with it).

CastorTroy

I was going to say "isn't officially dead" but figured a wee bit of optimism. Though is it optimistic to hope for more Discovery?

Stark

Why would the higher ups overrule him? I know we on this forum much prefer the likes of Lower Decks to Discovery but as far as I'm aware, Discovery is the big money maker with mass appeal?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118543559#Comment_118543559

Most of the answers to the questions in that article look like they were pulled from marketing blurbs and probably could have easily been answered by a quick Google.

They certainly don't read like exclusive insider knowledge.

Might just be wishful thinking though as I hate most mirror universe shte like space Hitler girl boss and I hate what Disco done to S31.

pixelburp

I'd eat a well-seasoned hat if Section 31 happens at this stage; while we may question the Brain Trust in charge of Trek ATM, I refuse to believe they're so blind that they'd fail to read the room here - and the range of interest stretching between apathy and outright rejection for this spin-off idea.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545467#Comment_118545467

It's more of an impression I'm getting than anything based on solid evidence.

Lower Decks has many hallmarks of pre Kurtzman Trek with TNG-era callbacks, subtle design artefacts like the ship having a view-screen instead of a bridge window, and actual Klingons. That, and the show clearly being run by fans of the franchise who appear to have a grasp of how an ensemble Trek crew actually works. Kurtzman doesn't appear to be able to show-run a Trek show without missing all of those points and putting in design signatures from the Kelvin Movies...which he was also involved with.

My guess / Hope, is that he's under instructions to run that show on paper only, and to let Titmouse run it as they see fit. I have some hope that similar instructions apply to Strange New Worlds to ensure that it is run well. Since I'm hearing good stuff about Prodigy (got to try and watch that soon) it could be the case of him not being allowed near that either.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118546131#Comment_118546131

BermanTrek was run the same way with Berman as executive producer and a created by credit but it was showrunners Piller and Behr's show really with Behr in full charge for the really good years. Berman's only inputs are rumoured to be stuff like the change to Kira's outfit to a special skin tight Bajoran uniform, Making Garak fancy a child cause it's somehow better than him fancying a man and getting the wardrobe department to make Teri Farrell's tits look bigger.

Lower Decks is McMahan's show full stop. His creation his pitch and Kurtzmann just gets some titles so he can draw an extra wage off it. It's the equivalent of a " co-writer " credit on an album.

SNW though is a direct spin off of Disco so i'de imagine he will be more hands on. What he needs to do is hire a Christopher Lee who sits on set all day moaning anytime Kurtzmann tries to do something that fks with in universe physics or lore. I read recently that Jolene Blalock was such a huge Trek fan that she done this a lot when it came to Vulcan stuff.

flazio

Now that we know Picard is coming to a natural end I suspect the powers that be are considering using Section 31 as a direct replacement. Not saying that's what will happen but it could be a logical consideration.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118546769#Comment_118546769

Now that we know Picard is coming to a natural end

Christ for a second I thought he was dead

TheValeyard

Well, he was briefly. Couple of time actually.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118546769#Comment_118546769

I'd speculate the next Trek project might sooner be another "years later" project featuring another set of Trek alumni. A Janeway story maybe, given she's in Prodigy already, or some sequel to DS9;

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118547289#Comment_118547289

As much as I would love DS9, I would HATE seeing what the current shower would do to it

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118547451#Comment_118547451

Oh yeah they'd fúck it up royally, I certainly would have extremely mixed emotions were the news announced. But at this stage a continued strip-mining of nostalgia feels more likely than a spin off about a character and setting nobody(?) liked. Heck with Scott Bakula in the news again over the culturally inevitable Quantum Leap reboot, maybe other properties he led might get a reboot...

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118547289#Comment_118547289

Wont be Janeway anyway I reckon

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118547289#Comment_118547289

If they had any cop-on about these kind of things (a stretch i know...), they should have tried setting something in the "Lost Era" (Gap between TOS Movies and TNG). There we've got a whole period of time that's mostly open canon-wise. They'd be using the TOS Movie uniform and we'll see things slowing going towards the TNG style. We've got things like the Enterprise C, the Tomed Incident and maybe even early unreported first contacts with the Borg. (They existed as rumours & legend when the Hansens went out looking).

That whole era is a mostly open book and as long as you don't step on TNGs toes you could make all kinds of story-arcs that might be good.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118549120#Comment_118549120

Im really really sick of prequels. The stakes are so low when you know whats gonna happen every major race down the line anyway. Sadly Disco has made everything between the 24th and 32nd century a prequel but lets be honest none of us would give a sht if that crappy 32nd century canon was messed with.