High protein LOW carb.. HELP

Bottle_of_Smoke

Its only restrictive in the first 2 weeks. Are you one of the people who thinks you stay on 20g of carb per day for life? Sorry to disappoint.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002934302011294

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022347602402065

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022207

These are three studies from the first page of google scholar results for "low carbohydrate diets"

They show weight loss and two of them improved HDL status compared to low fat diets.

The one from the American Journal of Medicine is a "very low carbohydrate diet" which I guess would be similar to atkins. That resulted in significant decrease in LDL/ significant increase in HDL as well as sustained weight loss over 6 months.

The validity of low carb diets is not in doubt like.

Thomas Magnum

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Its only restrictive in the first 2 weeks. Are you one of the people who thinks you stay on 20g of carb per day for life? Sorry to disappoint.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002934302011294

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022347602402065

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022207

These are three studies from the first page of google scholar results for "low carbohydrate diets"

They show weight loss and two of them improved HDL status compared to low fat diets.

The one from the American Journal of Medicine is a "very low carbohydrate diet" which I guess would be similar to atkins. That resulted in significant decrease in LDL/ significant increase in HDL as well as sustained weight loss over 6 months.

The validity of low carb diets is not in doubt like.

Just skimmed those studies and as I suspected they are all short-term studies and the participants were given vitamin supplements as well. Weightloss is known to cause an initial lowering of LDL and if people are restricting calories, whether intentional or not, then they will lose weight. However whats going on under the hood may not be so great. Do you have any long-term studies to show me? I suspect not.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Thomas Magnum wrote: »

Just skimmed those studies and as I suspected they are all short-term studies and the participants were given vitamin supplements as well. Weightloss is known to cause an initial lowering of LDL and if people are restricting calories, whether intentional or not, then they will lose weight. However whats going on under the hood may not be so great. Do you have any long-term studies to show me? I suspect not.

Well how long is long term? The problem is people on these diets don't exist in one country as a big group so its difficult to do a long term observational study. Though as we all know obesity levels started getting really bad around the same time fat got really demonised over increasing cholesterol in the eighties.

I found one that claims to be investigating a long term effect but its actually only 4 months - less than the one above. it compared low carb vs low fat. Similar (good) results in both.

The reason I have more time for low carb is its much tastier. I suspect its healthier myself for the effect of carbs on blood sugars too.

However whats going on under the hood may not be so great.

I think this statement is a bit sneaky. In that there isn't evidence that "whats going on under the hood may not be so great" So I don't see why we should assume low fat is better than low carb.

The other thing is grains/vegetable oils. Came into human diet very late into our history. Grains pretty essential for low fat diets. not required at all for low carb diets. So as above I think its unfair to assume low carb is likely to be bad.

EdoErgoSum

Thomas Magnum wrote: »

Just skimmed those studies and as I suspected they are all short-term studies and the participants were given vitamin supplements as well. Weightloss is known to cause an initial lowering of LDL and if people are restricting calories, whether intentional or not, then they will lose weight. However whats going on under the hood may not be so great. Do you have any long-term studies to show me? I suspect not.

is 12 m. enough??

http://med.stanford.edu/news_releases/2007/march/diet.html

Jumpy

mbiking123 wrote: »

Well documented

Dr. Robert Atkins, creator of the high-protein, low-carbohydrate Atkins Diet

Dr. Atkins, when he died, weighed 258 pounds. He was 6 foot tall. With these figures he would be classified as obese.

Atkins diet dont work

*facepalm*

Even if that urban legend were true. My doctor smokes, he is also quite chubby.

Do you think the ****ing Chairman of the Board of KFC eats nothing but chicken?

People who develop scientific method or a legitimate business do not automatically follow the path of said method or business.

Ronald McDonald said this in an interview once.*



*true story.

RobAMerc

mbiking123 wrote: »

Well documented

Dr. Robert Atkins, creator of the high-protein, low-carbohydrate Atkins Diet

Dr. Atkins, when he died, weighed 258 pounds. He was 6 foot tall. With these figures he would be classified as obese.

Atkins diet dont work

this makes everything else you say, no matter how good your argument, have 0 credibility I'm afraid.

themoocher

mbiking123 wrote: »

To loose weight very simple, get moderate excerise. Eat whatever you want before 6pm and no food after that. Start there and you will find you will slowly eat less and less. After some time then improve diet before 6pm. Drink plenty of liquids after 6pm to make you feel your stomack is full.

Very bad advice, so you can eat pizzas, takeaways etc.. all day as long as its before 6pm- do moderate exercise and loose weight?????? read the nutrition stickies first and see what it is you want to achieve

mbiking123

themoocher wrote: »

Very bad advice, so you can eat pizzas, takeaways etc.. all day as long as its before 6pm- do moderate exercise and loose weight?????? read the nutrition stickies first and see what it is you want to achieve

Did I say you could eat whatever junk you wanted

Come on be realistic, I said make lifestyle changes starting with avoiding eating late in evening as a start to your lifestyle change

Lifestyle change also includes a proper diet with vitamins, carbs, fibre and protein etc

Lifestyle change include regular exercise

etc etc etc, as I said before I think some people here with their views need to talk to a dietitian

mbiking123

Jumpy wrote: »

*facepalm*

Even if that urban legend were true. My doctor smokes, he is also quite chubby.

Do you think the ****ing Chairman of the Board of KFC eats nothing but chicken?

People who develop scientific method or a legitimate business do not automatically follow the path of said method or business.

Ronald McDonald said this in an interview once.*



*true story.

He made a whack amount of money telling people how to avoid being overweight. So tell me what Dr Atkins BMI was ? if it is as good as some people here believe I am sure it was somewhere between 18.5 and 24.9

mbiking123

RobAMerc wrote: »

this makes everything else you say, no matter how good your argument, have 0 credibility I'm afraid.

Thats your opinion and i'm sure your not really afraid to say it

mbiking123

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Well how long is long term? The problem is people on these diets don't exist in one country as a big group so its difficult to do a long term observational study. Though as we all know obesity levels started getting really bad around the same time fat got really demonised over increasing cholesterol in the eighties.

I found one that claims to be investigating a long term effect but its actually only 4 months - less than the one above. it compared low carb vs low fat. Similar (good) results in both.

The reason I have more time for low carb is its much tastier. I suspect its healthier myself for the effect of carbs on blood sugars too.



I think this statement is a bit sneaky. In that there isn't evidence that "whats going on under the hood may not be so great" So I don't see why we should assume low fat is better than low carb.

The other thing is grains/vegetable oils. Came into human diet very late into our history. Grains pretty essential for low fat diets. not required at all for low carb diets. So as above I think its unfair to assume low carb is likely to be bad.

What about fibre, colon cancer problems !

themoocher

mbiking123 wrote: »

Did I say you could eat whatever junk you wanted

Eat whatever you want before 6pm and no food after that.

The main point was that you didn't state what to eat at all ^^^^

Unfortunately people would jump at that as everyone wants a quick easy fix and that seems so simple! Just pointing out that your advice was way too general and posting wrong advice like that can be seen and picked up on by many looking at this thread.

mbiking123

themoocher wrote: »

Eat whatever you want before 6pm and no food after that.

The main point was that you didn't state what to eat at all ^^^^

Unfortunately people would jump at that as everyone wants a quick easy fix and that seems so simple! Just pointing out that your advice was way too general and posting wrong advice like that can be seen and picked up on by many looking at this thread.

No its about making small life changes

Start off by avoiding eating late in the evening ..................................................... been said already

For example I did not say 'not to snort cocaine before/after 6pm', ok for everybody out there dont snort, inject, smoke drugs.

come on be realistic. For a person who eats alot, for them to stop eating after 6pm is a big accomplishment. These life changes are over the long term. Rapid weight loss is bad for the health and cannot be sustained. Needs to be gradual

If you want to make a different life change then thats your decision, perhaps only eating red meat 3 times per week. That may be an accomplishment for you. In the end eating late will also have to be cut out. Where you want to start and end is up to you, making life changes is the way to go, and if people are ready to go mad on junk food then they need to talk to a dietitian, not get the information here

Bottle_of_Smoke

mbiking123 wrote: »

What about fibre, colon cancer problems !

been pretty much debunked in recent years. Inverse associations with veg and CRC continue to be shown alright - and they can be eaten on low carb diets. As well as many fruits

People seem to think the atkins diet means eating nothing but fat and protein for life. That's only the first 2 weeks. Why won't you accept that?

mbiking123

Bottle_of_Smoke Why won't you accept that?

No offence but I would prefer to take the opinion of a dietitian over the opinion of somebody I dont know.

Bottle_of_Smoke

mbiking123 wrote: »

No offence but I would prefer to take the opinion of a dietitian over the opinion of somebody I dont know.

You don't need to be f*cking dietician to read the indisputable fact the Atkins diet is only extremely restrictive in the first 2 weeks. Then you introduce veg nuts berries/alcohol. Eventually even wholegrain carbs become acceptable

This all just proves you haven't a f*cking clue what the Atkins diet is and are just basing your opinions on tabloid journalism

SteelyDanJalapeno

mbiking123 wrote: »

He made a whack amount of money telling people how to avoid being overweight. So tell me what Dr Atkins BMI was ? if it is as good as some people here believe I am sure it was somewhere between 18.5 and 24.9

Man, your such a major facepalm,

Your argument is ridiculous, if i brought a book stating that if you left heavier weights you'll gain muscle, if i die today with a small amount of muscle, would my claims in the book be disregarded?

He might not of followed his diet all of his life, and as said 60lbs of the weight was fluid put on over the last 2 months,

And here we go again with the "you cant eat late at night" bullcrap

danlen

mbiking123 wrote: »

etc etc etc, as I said before I think some people here with their views need to talk to a dietitian

You need need to talk to a dietician about this, all you need is a basic understanding of how science works.

If someone creates a diet and they are overweight, you cannot say the diet doesn't work. The fact this one person (who may not even be following the diet strictly) is overweight tells us nothing about the effects of the diet itself.

However, if there is abundant peer-reviewed, scientific research out there proving that a low-carb diet is effective for weight-loss and health (which there is), you can say that this is the case.

If you understand the basic prinicples of scientific research, which tbh I doubt you do, then there really is no need for any consultation with a dietician on this matter. In any case, if the dietician is worth their salt and keeps on top of recent research, they will be able to verify the effectiveness and safety of low-carbohydrate nutrition.

Bottle_of_Smoke

danlen wrote: »

You need need to talk to a dietician about this, all you need is a basic understanding of how science works.

If someone creates a diet and they are overweight, you cannot say the diet doesn't work. The fact this one person (who may not even be following the diet strictly) is overweight tells us nothing about the effects of the diet itself.

However, if there is abundant peer-reviewed, scientific research out there proving that a low-carb diet is effective for weight-loss and health (which there is), you can say that this is the case.

If you understand the basic prinicples of scientific research, which tbh I doubt you do, then there really is no need for any consultation with a dietician on this matter. In any case, if the dietician is worth their salt and keeps on top of recent research, they will be able to verify the effectiveness and safety of low-carbohydrate nutrition.

Agreed. I think dietitians are more for stuff like diets for people with kidney disease.

To me going to a dietitian for weight loss is like going to your GP for a papercut

mbiking123

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Agreed. I think dietitians are more for stuff like diets for people with kidney disease.

To me going to a dietitian for weight loss is like going to your GP for a papercut

No - incorrect includes obesity

mbiking123

danlen wrote: »

If you understand the basic prinicples of scientific research, which tbh I doubt you do, then there really is no need for any consultation with a dietician on this matter. In any case, if the dietician is worth their salt and keeps on top of recent research, they will be able to verify the effectiveness and safety of low-carbohydrate nutrition.

obviously you know it all

mbiking123

TiltedBrain wrote: »

Man, your such a major facepalm,

Your argument is ridiculous, if i brought a book stating that if you left heavier weights you'll gain muscle, if i die today with a small amount of muscle, would my claims in the book be disregarded?

He might not of followed his diet all of his life, and as said 60lbs of the weight was fluid put on over the last 2 months,

And here we go again with the "you cant eat late at night" bullcrap

you def need to tilt your brain

mbiking123

you guys should get together and write a book. What you guys dont know aint worth talking about

Bottle_of_Smoke

mbiking123 wrote: »

No - incorrect includes obesity

Waste of money. Weight loss is a very uncomplicated business. They can't tell you anything a book won't.

Orla K

I've just thought your objecting to this diet because it's 70odd year old creator had a slightly high bmi, which most people agree is a bad indictor of health. For an old guy he was doing fairly well.

mbiking123

Orla K wrote: »

I've just thought your objecting to this diet because it's 70odd year old creator had a slightly high bmi, which most people agree is a bad indictor of health. For an old guy he was doing fairly well.

What is a slightly high BMI

What was his BMI ?

Nobody seems to be able to answer this

Transform

mbiking123 wrote: »

No - incorrect includes obesity

maybe but any obese clients i have worked with knew EXACTLY what they were doing wrong and almost ALL of the 'just overweight' clients did also.

mbiking123 - you need to back off a little. there is some solid advice here if you can look beyond atkins as you might think you know it and look at low carb nutrition in general

Orla K

mbiking123 wrote: »

What is a slightly high BMI

What was his BMI ?

Nobody seems to be able to answer this

Alright a slightly high bmi would be 25-27 this can be up for debate

His bmi was 26.4

I also think I read somewhere that he was into weight training, if that's true I'd say forget about his bmi.

There's also the possibility that as you age the healthy range for bmi increases(I'm only in my 20s and don't pay attention to bmi so I don't know I just remember reading something about bmi being for 18.5 year olds) if this is the case forget about that arguement.

moonage

mbiking123 wrote: »

you guys should get together and write a book.

You should write a book: The Don't Eat Anything After 6pm Diet

This revolutionary new book claims that you can eat whatever you want before 6pm, just drink water after 6pm and over time your appetite will magically decrease.

mbiking123

moonage wrote: »

You should write a book: The Don't Eat Anything After 6pm Diet

This revolutionary new book claims that you can eat whatever you want before 6pm, just drink water after 6pm and over time your appetite will magically decrease.

How is that statement a book

Do you underatand how to make your appetite decrease ?

If I was writing a book it would be making lifestyle changes, starting with not eating after 6pm