Automatic vs. Manual

btkm8unsl0w5r4

MG TF with Steepspeed CVT was possibly the worst transmission on a car I have ever driven bar none.

moonage

Regarding kickdown, is it true to say that you don't neccessarily have to put the accelerator to the floor to drop gears? Will pressing it sharply enough do the trick?

I think there used to always be a button under the accelerator that was pressed when it was floored to enable kickdown. Is that button always still there in automatics?

unkel

unkel wrote: »

If you're cruising along in 5th and suddenly need to overtake, it's just a matter of how hard you plant your foot on the accelerator for the modern box to shift down as many gears as you want. Want it back in 2nd? Just stamp!

If you've got a turbo, stamp, lift, stamp


this may have something to do with my car being sick

R.O.R

Casey Tasty Mole wrote: »

MG TF with Steepspeed CVT was possibly the worst transmission on a car I have ever driven bar none.

You've obviously never driven a A150cdi CVT then? Stamping on the "loud" pedal took the revs to 4,500 (surely above the peak torque of the engine) meaning it got a lot louder, but not really any faster.

That was an "upgrade" on a rental car in 2007. Still sends shivers down my spine thinking of it.

alias no.9

bijapos wrote: »

Correct, there was a small revival of CVT boxes around 1990, I think there was a Fiesta and a Uno available with them but they were dropped shortly after.

Mk1&2 Puntos had CVT Selecta models, not sure about the Grande Punto. The P11 Primera had a CVT option, as did the Rover Metro/100 and some Audi A6 models IIRC.

nkay1985

What kind of price difference are you looking at on similar model autos versus manuals? Besides the old rubbish that people still think about autos, would this not be a fairly big factor in why we don't have more?

eth0

nkay1985 wrote: »

What kind of price difference are you looking at on similar model autos versus manuals? Besides the old rubbish that people still think about autos, would this not be a fairly big factor in why we don't have more?

Usually 1 or 2k more (sometimes 4k more for DSG).

I know lots of people who simply don't like driving automatics and not 'boy racers' or old fashioned Luddites either

moonage

eth0 wrote: »

I know lots of people who simply don't like driving automatics and not 'boy racers' or old fashioned Luddites either

But a very high percentage who try them do prefer them.

If every driver was given an oppotunity to try an an automatic I'd say 80%+ would switch over.

eth0

moonage wrote: »

But a very high percentage who try them do prefer them.

If every driver was given an oppotunity to try an an automatic I'd say 80%+ would switch over.

Most have had the chance to try one at some point but I don't see them rushing out to buy one. I'd expect them to be more popular with Dublin-based commuters and outside that most people are either indifferent about it or prefer manual

Anan1

eth0 wrote: »

Most have had the chance to try one at some point but I don't see them rushing out to buy one. I'd expect them to be more popular with Dublin-based commuters and outside that most people are either indifferent about it or prefer manual

Have you ever driven a good automatic, mated to a powerful engine?

Del2005

eth0 wrote: »

Most have had the chance to try one at some point but I don't see them rushing out to buy one. I'd expect them to be more popular with Dublin-based commuters and outside that most people are either indifferent about it or prefer manual

That's the joy of modern autos. You have the boring bit for traffic and then you can play with the gears if you want. Try that in a manual!

I don't know why you think only Dublin people drive auto. But I suppose if driving an auto culchies couldn't leave the car in 5th gear while counting their neighbours cattle four fields back driving at 10km/h.

Mr. Presentable

I love my auto, though switching back and forth during the day with my manual does lead to some odd situations (like forgetting to declutch the first time I need to stop, or reaching for the stick when I want to change down).

I think it's the future!

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

I was gonna post something similar. If you're cruising along in 5th and suddenly need to overtake, it's just a matter of how hard you plant your foot on the accelerator for the modern box to shift down as many gears as you want. Want it back in 2nd? Just stamp!

I dont like that behavior though. The accelerator is for throttle, not for gear changes. Which is why I like the tiptronic mode.
Ive been in situations where the auto box drops down too many gears for an overly aggressive punch back and situations where it just floats around (particularly 4th to 3rd) in too high a gear. Every (ZF) box Ive tried was like this (Allroad, Phaeton, Audi S8, 530i).

The drivetrain really annoyed me till I started using tiptronic. And judging by the amount of gear slip and slop, manually controlling the changes is much nicer on the box too. The auto box likes to change alot and before 3/4 of the RPM band, which is maybe "kinder" on the engine but not on the box.

maxfresh

The only time ive properly driven autos was in australia had a few different cars hired , lovely and relaxing to drive, but i think they suit the big cc v6 motors

unkel

Matt Simis wrote: »

Ive been in situations where the auto box drops down too many gears for an overly aggressive punch back and situations where it just floats around (particularly 4th to 3rd) in too high a gear. Every (ZF) box Ive tried was like this (Allroad, Phaeton, Audi S8, 530i).

The drivetrain really annoyed me till I started using tiptronic. And judging by the amount of gear slip and slop, manually controlling the changes is much nicer on the box too. The auto box likes to change alot and before 3/4 of the RPM band, which is maybe "kinder" on the engine but not on the box.

I get what you're saying, Matt and I'll admit I played with the manual switches on the steptronic until I got bored with it. Never really stuck with it, maybe I should have.

That said, I always tend to overtake at the fastest possible acceleration. You'll never have to think about what gear you need, I really enjoy just planting the right foot into the floor. Also after passing toll boots in those wide toll plazas (M4 is best) with the window open

ZF steptronic autobox only shifts up near the redline (because of max BHP presumably) when your foot is fully planted

meoklmrk91

So I get it, there are some real auto lovers out there. I still don't think I could do it, changing gears, the feel of it in the car is a awesome experience and I only drive a polo. Its just more fun I think, more involved, one of my favourite things in the world is resting my wrist on the stick and feeling the changes of acceleration and deceleration. In saying that I have never driven an auto and even if I did I doubt it would be one of the better ones.

There is just so much in life that is automated, some of which I love but sometimes I sit into a new car and think this isn't a car, it's just a giant computer and I personally think that is a little sad. The true fun of driving seems to be gone and their is no surprises, no real excitement, it just feels mundane, like going through the motions.

Dartz

Manual.

When an auto malfunctions, it's expensive(DPO box -ick). When a manual goes wrong, you learn to double-clutch

mcwhirter

I'd prefer one if fuel was cheaper.

unkel

mcwhirter wrote: »

I'd prefer one if fuel was cheaper.

Another misconception. A good modern automatic uses not a drop more fuel than a manual. That's on paper. In real life, an automatic uses less fuel as it knows better what gear to be in than any human driver.

pajo1981

R.O.R wrote: »

You've obviously never driven a A150cdi CVT then? Stamping on the "loud" pedal took the revs to 4,500 (surely above the peak torque of the engine) meaning it got a lot louder, but not really any faster.

Yes beyond peak torque, but not peak power.

murphyebass

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

So I get it, there are some real auto lovers out there. I still don't think I could do it, changing gears, the feel of it in the car is a awesome experience and I only drive a polo. Its just more fun I think, more involved, one of my favourite things in the world is resting my wrist on the stick and feeling the changes of acceleration and deceleration. In saying that I have never driven an auto and even if I did I doubt it would be one of the better ones.

There is just so much in life that is automated, some of which I love but sometimes I sit into a new car and think this isn't a car, it's just a giant computer and I personally think that is a little sad. The true fun of driving seems to be gone and their is no surprises, no real excitement, it just feels mundane, like going through the motions.

Awesome experience in a polo? Really?
No offence but the wife has one and having been forced to drive it on the odd occassion I really cant honestly think of a more boring car to drive or be in. No poke, no comfort, bogo spec admitedly, etc.. list really would go on...
(btw, I wouldnt get an auto in a small car like that, although the neighbour has an auto micra and its great craic. Little go cart for the road)

In regards to manual then..."More fun" and "more involved" you say, yet you then add that you've never driven an automatic.

Are you trolling? I'm just confused on both points you make.

Tea 1000

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

So I get it, there are some real auto lovers out there. I still don't think I could do it, changing gears, the feel of it in the car is a awesome experience and I only drive a polo. Its just more fun I think, more involved, one of my favourite things in the world is resting my wrist on the stick and feeling the changes of acceleration and deceleration. In saying that I have never driven an auto and even if I did I doubt it would be one of the better ones.

There is just so much in life that is automated, some of which I love but sometimes I sit into a new car and think this isn't a car, it's just a giant computer and I personally think that is a little sad. The true fun of driving seems to be gone and their is no surprises, no real excitement, it just feels mundane, like going through the motions.

See, this is the problem. People like this who claim that Auto ruins the driving experience, yet they drive things like Polo's and Scenic's and other such mundane stuff that no matter how good the gearbox is, they offer nothing in terms of driving experience anyway.
An auto box in a Lotus Elise would take from the experience. A Polo manual box is one of the crappier gearboxes out there. And actually, the manual says that you shouldn't rest your hand on the gear stick.
Having said that, some auto boxes are muck. Drove a 3 litre TDI A6 quatto before, 2005 one, and the Auto box was fairly crap. Even in tiptronic. Move lever, pause, gear change.

Voodoomelon

In fairness, manually shifting an auto box in Steptronic mode in a saloon is never great. They have it there just so you can shift manually if you wish, but why you'd spec a large saloon with an autobox to then change it manually is beyond me. Unless its a performance semi-auto box, the manual feature is purely a gimmick and doesn't have to work too well in my view. As long as the auto shift is smooth and on time, that's all that matters.

Dartz

Dartz wrote: »

.................. When a manual goes wrong, you learn to double-clutch

... unless it's really gone wrong in which case it's expensive too.

meoklmrk91

I have a polo because I am 20 and a student and I can't afford anything else so don't be attacking me.

When I got it first I thought it was boring too, but you can get good fun out of it if you drive it properly. And I know I only mentioned the polo but I have driven plenty of other manual cars, beamers, scoobys etc and I just can't imagine sitting there and doing feck all with my left hand.

Zubeneschamali

I hate electric starter motors, you get much more feel for the engine starting it with a hand-crank.

meoklmrk91

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

I just can't imagine sitting there and doing feck all with my left hand.

Um, that's what travel mugs are for :rolleyes:

kazul

whoopsadaisydoodles wrote: »

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

I just can't imagine sitting there and doing feck all with my left hand.

Um, that's what travel mugs are for :rolleyes:

Or, now bear with me this is a bit radical, you could place both hands on the steering wheel.
Autos are safer because of this, and you can pay full attention to the road rather than faffing about with gearchanges.

Tea 1000

Voodoomelon wrote: »

In fairness, manually shifting an auto box in Steptronic mode in a saloon is never great. They have it there just so you can shift manually if you wish, but why you'd spec a large saloon with an autobox to then change it manually is beyond me. Unless its a performance semi-auto box, the manual feature is purely a gimmick and doesn't have to work too well in my view. As long as the auto shift is smooth and on time, that's all that matters.

It was smooth, but not on time! Which is why I went to fiddle mode!

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

I have a polo because I am 20 and a student and I can't afford anything else so don't be attacking me.

When I got it first I thought it was boring too, but you can get good fun out of it if you drive it properly. And I know I only mentioned the polo but I have driven plenty of other manual cars, beamers, scoobys etc and I just can't imagine sitting there and doing feck all with my left hand.

Not attacking you because you have a Polo, everyone starts somewhere, I'm attacking the Polo for being dull to drive, and highlighting that putting a manual box in it doesn't make it fun.
I reckon that despite driving and liking a few of the cars you mentioned, a good blast in a proper Auto in a decent car would convince you that the gearbox is only one ingredient!

murphyebass

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

I have a polo because I am 20 and a student and I can't afford anything else so don't be attacking me.

When I got it first I thought it was boring too, but you can get good fun out of it if you drive it properly. And I know I only mentioned the polo but I have driven plenty of other manual cars, beamers, scoobys etc and I just can't imagine sitting there and doing feck all with my left hand.

I dont think anyones attacking you. Your post made no sense.

This one isnt much better as your still insisting that a polo can be good fun. Eh ... no.
....or your idea of fun vs my idea of fun are very different.
....or unless its not a 1 - 1.2 ltr (god I hate my wifes 1.2ltr yolk)

Dont know do they do a sport version I'm sure they do.
Theres a sporty Fabia iirc so maybe theres a sporty Polo.
If you own such a car I stand corrected.

As for your left hand you can still rest it on the gear stick if you want or probably a better idea is to put it on the wheel.

Bottom line is you havent driven an automatic so no harm to ya but I find it very hard to take your opinion on the matter all that seriously tbh.