Automatic vs. Manual

650Ginge

CiniO wrote: »

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

I personally could never see myself driving automatic, they are slower than manual (as long as gear changes are made properly),

I wouldn't be so sure.
Few months ago I was abroad, I rented a car and got Prius with automatic CVT.

A continuously variable transmission (CVT) is a transmission that can change steplessly through an infinite number of effective gear ratios

I can't see how manual with 5 or 6 gears could be better than infinite number of gears.

Engine just accelerates to rev with biggest torque, and transmission chagning steplessy causes car to accelerate.
I was actually impressed with this idea, and I think it's the most economical and ergonomical type of transmission. (at least theoretically).

Closet Prius lover after all :-)

As the owner of a cvt car I love it for smoothness no change at all u can't if get it that smooth in a manual. But the noise when it goes to the revs with the most torque is very very irritating but I won't be getting rid of it for any manual.

Fishtits

The trend is to remove the human factor from as many processes as possible. This trend started decades ago - ie fly by wire aircraft - Airbus pioneered - Boeing soon adopted, the basic logic was that the pilot could ask for any action they wanted but the computer knew better and would limit the request to an action within the capabilities of the aircraft - thus ensuring safety.

It seems this mindset is spreading to car manufacturers, what with auto park, lane departure warning, intelligent cruise control, soon the damn things will be driving themselves... With the resultant f*ckwit drivers on board it'll get scary...

I assume the RSA are ahead of the curve on this one and have a plan of action with regard to driver training...
In fairness, they've moved from the 70's to the 90's in a few years, there is a chance that they may catch up with the Human Factors issue.

I'm not an expert on this by any means but it would be nice to know they aware of it

Voodoomelon

mondeo wrote: »

If when floored it takes too long to kick back

I wouldn't really use that as an indication of fault to be honest, if you mash the accelerator in most automatics, you're gonna be waiting 0.5-1 second for the car to take off.

Funny when I give someone a lift and after 5 minutes they say "oh, its an automatic?" with a suprised/semi-disgusted look on their face. Manual chumps, their loss! :pac:

heate

Voodoomelon wrote: »

mondeo wrote: »

If when floored it takes too long to kick back

I wouldn't really use that as an indication of fault to be honest, if you mash the accelerator in most automatics, you're gonna be waiting 0.5-1 second for the car to take off.

Funny when I give someone a lift and after 5 minutes they say "oh, its an automatic?" with a suprised/semi-disgusted look on their face. Manual chumps, their loss! :pac:

I have a 7 series I quite like how the gear stick doesnt get in the way and leaves a clear line on the console butI've had two supposedly intelligent people ask me how hard it is to drive my car while changing gears on the indicator stalk - neither assumed it was an auto

eth0

heate wrote: »

I have a 7 series I quite like how the gear stick doesnt get in the way and leaves a clear line on the console butI've had two supposedly intelligent people ask me how hard it is to drive my car while changing gears on the indicator stalk - neither assumed it was an auto

There used to be column shift cars like the Pug 204. I'd love to have a tear off one some day just for that reason. It can't be that terribly difficult to drive

Voodoomelon

heate wrote: »

I have a 7 series I quite like how the gear stick doesnt get in the way and leaves a clear line on the console butI've had two supposedly intelligent people ask me how hard it is to drive my car while changing gears on the indicator stalk - neither assumed it was an auto

Thats one thing I hate about the E65, I don't like the idea of a stalk gear stick. I drove an S350 with one too and didn't like it at all.

mondeo

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I wouldn't really use that as an indication of fault to be honest, if you mash the accelerator in most automatics, you're gonna be waiting 0.5-1 second for the car to take off.

Funny when I give someone a lift and after 5 minutes they say "oh, its an automatic?" with a suprised/semi-disgusted look on their face. Manual chumps, their loss! :pac:

I understand there is a delay as with all Autos but precisely my meaning was if she is taking her sweet time kicking back.

I looked over a 00' Mitsubishi Mirage for a friend last April. You could be driving along at 50 60 or whatever kph and then floor it. She would just rev up and literally hang there at the limiter, 2 seconds 3 seconds and no kick back. You had to release the throttle to about the 3/4 mark to make it kick back. You could feel the car trying to kick it back but it was like it could not latch on. Pretty sure the torque converter was knackered on that thing.

heate

Voodoomelon wrote: »

heate wrote: »

I have a 7 series I quite like how the gear stick doesnt get in the way and leaves a clear line on the console butI've had two supposedly intelligent people ask me how hard it is to drive my car while changing gears on the indicator stalk - neither assumed it was an auto

Thats one thing I hate about the E65, I don't like the idea of a stalk gear stick. I drove an S350 with one too and didn't like it at all.

It's a nice feature when you get used to it in the beginning the lack of feel meant mistakes could be made!
Evidently it certainly wasn't too keen on it since it's been scrapped with the new model!

eth0

heate wrote: »

It's a nice feature when you get used to it in the beginning the lack of feel meant mistakes could be made!
Evidently it certainly wasn't too keen on it since it's been scrapped with the new model!

Whats it been replaced with? The traditional 'Prundle' stick between the two seats?

Voodoomelon

Yup, the same one that filtered down to the 5.

heate

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Yup, the same one that filtered down to the 5.

I've test driven one the shifter is weird at first and I can no longer confuse low IQ passengers - F01 7's are getting somewhat reasonable but I'm just not gone on the looks the five is nearly as big and the look is much clearer both inside and out!

Voodoomelon

I used one in a new 5er too, its actually handy as hell, I like it a lot.

TheUsual

I don't get automatic cars at all, have had lots of small and big engines, petrol and diesel.

A diesel bus with auto was the only time I liked it, but I could have used a manual just as well. Have a lot of miles driven on that.

Thirsty on fuel, annoying when you need extra power to get out of trouble and change lanes, and for Irish and European roads they don't make sense.
Plus the servicing costs if anything goes wrong.

If you have a bad leg or back then grand. But otherwise do your test in a manual to give you a choice, and drive a manual to save money and enjoy the driving, also have the option of acceleration to get out of a dangerous situation.

coylemj

For those who aren't aware, all fire engines and Garda cars in the Dublin region are automatic.

Rich11

The only reason there is so many auto's in america, is because, americians cant eat a burger and change gear at the same time:) FACT

eth0

Rich11 wrote: »

The only reason there is so many auto's in america, is because, americians cant eat a burger and change gear at the same time:) FACT

and talk on the phone, put on make up, text, give the 'idiot driver' beside them the finger

I hated driving over there. Long straight boring roads punctuated by traffic lights, lots of traffic and muppets who think they're better than you cause they have a bigger car

the cars there are ****e too. the new ones I mean, not the old school muscle cars (with manual gearbox)

TheUsual

coylemj wrote: »

For those who aren't aware, all fire engines and Garda cars in the Dublin region are automatic.

And Dublin Bus buses !!

alias no.9

TheUsual wrote: »

But otherwise do your test in a manual to give you a choice, and drive a manual to save money and enjoy the driving, also have the option of acceleration to get out of a dangerous situation.

I don't think anyone is advocating that everyone learn to drive in an automatic, I'd nearly go further in the opposite direction and suggest people learn to drive in a car without power steering because it'll give them a better feel for what's going on at the front wheels, but I'd never suggest someone keep a car without power steering as a daily driver afterwards.

I'm also baffled at the notion you think an automatic would deprive you of the option of accelerating out of a dangerous situation. An average driver starting encountering a dangerous situation in too high a gear in a manual would be much more likely to delay in downshifting than an auto.

Anan1

eth0 wrote: »

I actually seen one of these cars years ago, wasn't in bad shape as its been kept in a shed for so long. It was a nice looking yoke but I don't like automatics at all, I think they're dull as fcuk a real Celtic Tiger toy for lazy Americanised folk. Part of a truly braindead uninvolved consumer lifestyle. Don't care if I have to buy from some obscure manufacturer in a few years if automatics catch on in a big way over here I'll never buy an automatic.

Yes you will, when you're older.;)

veetwin

coylemj wrote: »

For those who aren't aware, all fire engines and Garda cars in the Dublin region are automatic.

Vast majority of Garda cars are manual. They used to be auto but changed to manual years ago.

murphyebass

Anan1 wrote: »

Yes you will, when you're older.;)

+1.

I admit when I was younger I did not understand why people bought them and sneered people for driving them. :rolleyes:

BUT as you get older you realise everything has its place.
Its a silly arguement really. Its like petrol vs diesel arguement. Both have their place and work well/better in certain scenarios.

I've no problem with manual cars and will more than likely at some point in the future buy another one but if your not doin a lot of drivin and in particular are doing any amount of city driving automatics just make sense.

Plus to be honest tiptronic is there for those who do want the more "engaging" driving experience as used as a con for automatics by a lot of people. Was using it this morning and its great. That said I put it back into normal automatic mode soon after and cruised about town.

eth0

Anan1 wrote: »

Yes you will, when you're older.;)

I'd just get a horse instead

I'd nearly go further in the opposite direction and suggest people learn to drive in a car without power steering because it'll give them a better feel for what's going on at the front wheels, but I'd never suggest someone keep a car without power steering as a daily driver afterwards.

I do have a car without power steering and one with and I honestly prefer the one without for that reason. Never got the big deal about power steering or why some people insist on having it

murphyebass

murphyebass wrote: »

BUT as you get older you realise everything has its place.

I'm not old

Although I haven't bothered with that newfandangled tiptronic rubbish that's in the merc I'm currently driving :pac:

murphyebass

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not old

Although I haven't bothered with that newfandangled tiptronic rubbish that's in the merc I'm currently driving :pac:

Tiptronic again has its place. Its good fun if you want to control the gear change say on a nice twisty road. Not a day to day thing but nice to have there imo.

Oh and if it snows it'll definately be useful.

murphyebass

murphyebass wrote: »

Oh and if it snows it'll definately be useful.

It may be, but the rest of the car will be as useful as chocolate teapot

murphyebass

Deleted User wrote: »

It may be, but the rest of the car will be as useful as chocolate teapot

ah yeah forgot RWD. I have to say thats one of the main reasons I bought a Alfa GT as my last car over a Mazda RX8 which was the other car I was thinking and its also the reason I bought a Mazda 6 over looking at BMW's or Mercs this time. Would love a Merc E class but just wouldnt bother with RWD. I have to work no matter what the weather and I have to drive unfortunately so not worth the hassle imo.

Matt Simis

murphyebass wrote: »

Tiptronic again has its place. Its good fun if you want to control the gear change say on a nice twisty road. Not a day to day thing but nice to have there imo.

Oh and if it snows it'll definately be useful.

I had 3 cars with Tiptronic and didnt think much of it, till I used it for an extended period and wow, basically never drive without it now. The precison of being in the bloody gear you want (like a manual) with the smooth fast change of an auto.

I highly recommend anyone with a fast petrol auto to try the tiptronic mode for a longer stint. For diesels, prolly pointless as they need such frequent gear changes.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Has to be said that the ZF transmissions are almost physic when it come to being in the correct gear, however tiptronic is a blast.

bijapos

coylemj wrote: »

I think DAF cars had a similar transmission back in the 70s, IIRC it was called Variomatic.

Correct, there was a small revival of CVT boxes around 1990, I think there was a Fiesta and a Uno available with them but they were dropped shortly after.

With a bit of fiddling the Variomatic in the DAF made the car as fast in reverse as it did going forwards, so some people put 2 and 2 together and got this........:pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ipFApsFec

unkel

Casey Tasty Mole wrote: »

Has to be said that the ZF transmissions are almost physic when it come to being in the correct gear

I was gonna post something similar. If you're cruising along in 5th and suddenly need to overtake, it's just a matter of how hard you plant your foot on the accelerator for the modern box to shift down as many gears as you want. Want it back in 2nd? Just stamp!