All the hype over budget. It wasnt bad at all!

K-9

Biggins wrote: »

Very suspicious alright.

Well conspiracy theories are more fun.

What happened was the same that's happened in the last few budgets. Leaks saying it going to very bad, €8 cut to SW the big example.

That cut will come in the next budget as they can say they left it alone this time.

If there are SW exceptions for the property and water taxes coming tomorrow I'd be a bit pissed off tbh. That would mean the majority of SW relatively untouched with workers screwed again.

Biggins

O' and fares are all going up too it seems - with less buses, etc.

The Transport Minister is warning there will be a substantial increase in public transport fares next year as a result of the Budget.
The subsidies paid to the CIE Group will be cut by 8% or €21 million in 2012.
This includes Irish Rail, Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus.
However commuters who use the new Leap Card will be cushioned from the vast majority of increases.
These will be focused on cash fares.
Minister Leo Varadkar says people who live in areas which are not covered by the integrated ticketing system will see a modest rise in charges.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2011/news/minister-warns-of-substantial-increase-to-transport-fares/

Add to that, possible extra on the usual cigs, drink, etc...

Hobbes

Biggins wrote: »

Position 14: http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/expensive-cities-europe.html

Position 42 out of 280 (BUT in 2010): http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/jun/30/city-costs-living

Each site seems to have its own permutations as to assess an accurate list.

Wow I feel so much better knowing that there are much more expensive places where I am not living. It is like everything here has become suddenly cheaper.

My name is URL

Why do SF have a political broadcast on tv right now? Did they demand one because Kenny had his last night?

Sir Oxman

My name is URL wrote: »

I agree, the dole should have been cut to at least some degree.. if for no other reason than to avoid making those working feel even more disenfranchised.

The fact that they are cutting the disability benefit by almost 50% in some cases while not touching the dole is outrageous. I refuse to believe that a €10 reduction would make it impossible to get by for the majority of those who are out of employment.

That 88e and 44e reduction was applied to JSA/B last year for those same age groups btw.

Biggins

My name is URL wrote: »

Why do SF have a political broadcast on tv right now? Did they demand one because Kenny had his last night?

RTE wanted to be fair and give time to all the parties to state their response.
Its part (it appears) as some rule that all parties should get an proportionate amount of air time fairly.

FF I think is on doing same at nine.

K-9

My name is URL wrote: »

Why do SF have a political broadcast on tv right now? Did they demand one because Kenny had his last night?

I think all parties have it every year, nothing to do with Kenny's speech.

Kernel

Arawn wrote: »

Hmmmm I never knew Dublin was considered the country of Ireland. Thanks for teaching me something new.

Well, do you think there are any cities in the Republic with a higher cost of living than Dublin? No.

Biggins

Kernel wrote: »

Well, do you think there are any cities in the Republic with a higher cost of living than Dublin? No.

From only two years ago - make of it what you will: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/were-second-most-expensive-country-in-eu-to-buy-groceries-2238248.html

IRISH people are being forced to pay more than most Europeans for food and we're even being charged more for products that are made here.

Despite a wave of recession-busting price cuts, research showed Ireland is almost one-third more expensive than the UK for common items such as bread, milk and meat.

Shoppers here pay the second-highest prices in Europe with only Danish consumers forking out more for food, new EU research shows.

The figures showed Irish prices were 29pc higher than the EU average, compared to 40pc in Denmark.

Some economists last night blamed the high prices on large chains operating here, which they said earned much higher margins than they could do elsewhere in Europe.

Even though prices have dropped over the last 12 months as a result of the recession, homes here are still paying over the odds.

Figures from Eurostat, the EU statistics agency, showed Ireland was almost twice as expensive as the cheapest country in the union, Romania.

While Greece, Italy, Cyprus and Sweden all had average prices for food and non-alcoholic beverages, Irish prices were almost one-third more expensive.

For breads and cereals we were 32pc more expensive; for meat, 21pc; and for dairy products, 37pc, according to the study of 500 comparable products.

Alcohol was 67pc more expensive than the EU average, which made Ireland the second most expensive country, behind Finland. However, Ireland was the most expensive to buy tobacco products, at 117pc more than the EU average.

Last night, consumer representatives said they were not surprised by the new figures and said there needed to be an investigation of the pricing structures in Irish shops.


Expensive

The Eurostat study of 2009 prices showed Ireland had similar, but still more expensive, prices to Finland.

The figures were calculated using a formula to level all prices across the 27 countries regardless of currency. The Consumers' Association of Ireland said that there was "no great evidence" of prices coming down.

Vice-chairman Michael Kilcoyne said he had received a number of complaints about prices in the retail sector.

"I really think the pricing structure here is going to have to be investigated," he said.

However, Friends First economist Jim Power said food prices had fallen by about 7pc over the last 12 months -- a trend that had been in place for the last two to three years.

This had been coupled with a fall in prices across the board, said Mr Power, so Ireland's "relative position" had not improved.

The economist, who has carried out research for independent grocers' group RGDATA, said the costs of doing business here are more than elsewhere in the EU and chains are earning higher margins.

"The issue is that other European countries have seen similar trends in their food prices," Mr Power said. "It is a global trend, lower food prices. Ireland's relative position would not have improved."

Retail Ireland claimed the Eurostat figures about Irish food and drink prices were out of date. A spokesman said: "Irish food and drink prices have fallen considerably since the survey was carried out. In the last year, food and drink prices have fallen 8.6pc, but today's figures do not reflect this. Irish food prices are now back at 2006 levels."

Irish Farmers' Association president John Bryan said the findings confirmed the country's food supply chain was broken.

"In the UK, food prices are below the EU average, yet UK farmers are getting a higher price than farmers here," he said. "It is clear there is an urgent need to restore equity to the food supply chain with average farm incomes a deplorable €12,000 and the retail multinationals declaring huge profits."

O' and some big chain supermarkets have been accused of conning people.
See: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2069932/Four-largest-supermarkets-face-prosecution-misleading-shoppers-grocery-price-war-lies.html

I wonder do they do it here?

phonejacker

JohnnyTodd wrote: »

That budget was grand. I was expecting much much worse. Seems like a few cuts here and there but nothing major.

Agreed or am I missing something?

Are you from fine gael or something. it was everything but GRAND:mad::mad::mad:

Big Nasty

Biggins wrote: »

RTE wanted to be fair and give time to all the parties to state their response.
Its part (it appears) as some rule that all parties should get an proportionate amount of air time fairly.

FF I think is on doing same at nine.

They're not doing it 'to be fair' at all!

They're doing it because:

Section 39(1)(b) of the Broadcasting Act, 2009 (also here), requires that broadcasters ensure that their treatment of current affairs “is fair to all interests concerned and that the broadcast matter is presented in an objective and impartial manner and without any expression of … [their] own views”.

Biggins

MCMLXXV wrote: »

They're not doing it 'to be fair' at all!

They're doing it because:

I DID say they were doing it because of a rule and they ARE being fair to the others because of it.

oppenheimer1

I don't really know what people were expecting. This country has a massive spending problem and a huge budget deficit with or without the banks. The government spends a huge chunk of the money it doesn't have on social programmes so of course they are going to have to be cut.

Big Nasty

Biggins wrote: »

I DID say they were doing it because of a rule and they ARE being fair to the others because of it.

That's not EXACTLY the way you put it and they ARE NOT being fair by choice, but by obligation.

Given your apparent background I thought you would have known a little more about 'some rule' TBH. Some politician you would make!

Biggins

MCMLXXV wrote: »

That's not EXACTLY the way you put it and they ARE NOT being fair by choice, but by obligation.

Given your apparent background I thought you would have known a little more about 'some rule' TBH. Some politician you would make!

Semantics.

I was summarising. It was mentioned yesterday in the Indo' that the others would be doing their broadcast and the paper stated why.
I didn't have the long winded version to hand.

Mark200

MCMLXXV wrote: »

That's not EXACTLY the way you put it and they ARE NOT being fair by choice, but by obligation.

Same thing... they're doing it to be fair.

Biggins wrote: »

On December 1st FG/Labour allowed a 17% increase in their travel expenses, a 23% increase in their office expenditure (others only got 15% increase).

Don't suppose you have any more info on that? Eg who said it in the Dail. Hadn't heard it before... want to have a look at the transcript on kildarestreet.com.

ilovesleep

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I don't really know what people were expecting. This country has a massive spending problem and a huge budget deficit with or without the banks. The government spends a huge chunk of the money it doesn't have on social programmes so of course they are going to have to be cut.

But it goes right back at the banks.

Banks cause boom and bust cycles. Unfortunately the last shower of imbeciles encouraged the banks with lax regulation and took advantage of the situation with spending sprees. Our country was built on quicksand. Regardless of the arguements trotted about, about whos to blame etc, about our lifestyles from the boom, regardless of how we lived etc a deficit would still exist. Whether it would be this large - no ones knows.

Biggins

Mark200 wrote: »

Don't suppose you have any more info on that? Eg who said it in the Dail. Hadn't heard it before... want to have a look at the transcript on kildarestreet.com.

It was FF Sean Flemming when he spoke on behalf of the party.

Big Nasty

Mark200 wrote: »

Same thing... they're doing it to be fair.

No they are not - they are doing it because they have to.

That is exactly what I was pointing out to Mr. Big in the first place!

Biggins

MCMLXXV wrote: »

No they are not - they are doing it because they have to.

That is exactly what I was pointing out to Mr. Big in the first place!

Wifey says I'm not that big!

oppenheimer1

ilovesleep wrote: »

But it goes right back at the banks.

Banks cause boom and bust cycles. Unfortunately the last shower of imbeciles encouraged the banks with lax regulation and took advantage of the situation with spending sprees. Our country was built on quicksand. Regardless of the arguements trotted about, about whos to blame etc, about our lifestyles from the boom, regardless of how we lived etc a deficit would still exist. Whether it would be this large - no ones knows.

The reason we have the deficit today has little to do with the banks requirements today really. The previous administration organised the tax base very narrowly around consumption taxes, particularly property related consumption taxes. Admittedly these taxes were generated by heavy borrowing. It also increased wages and services with these windfall tax revenues. It created an state sector but taxes on production could never sustain its size.

That of course really leaves us with only one option, to slash the state sector to a level which is affordable. Entitlements and eventually wages and pensions will be cut until it is achieved. This is of course going to be painful for those that depend on the state. If we want to maintain the size of the state as it is we would have to tax the bejeasus out of workers.

Big Nasty

Biggins wrote: »

Wifey says I'm not that big!

Always thought you had small man syndrome!

Biggins

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Always thought you had small man syndrome!

:pac:

ilovesleep

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The reason we have the deficit today has little to do with the banks requirements today really. The previous administration organised the tax base very narrowly around consumption taxes, particularly property related consumption taxes. Admittedly these taxes were generated by heavy borrowing. It also increased wages and services with these windfall tax revenues. It created an state sector but taxes on production could never sustain its size.

That of course really leaves us with only one option, to slash the state sector to a level which is affordable. Entitlements and eventually wages and pensions will be cut until it is achieved. This is of course going to be painful for those that depend on the state. If we want to maintain the size of the state as it is we would have to tax the bejeasus out of workers.

Yes indeed! What we see is a correction of FF's spending spree.

K-9

ilovesleep wrote: »

But it goes right back at the banks.

Banks cause boom and bust cycles. Unfortunately the last shower of imbeciles encouraged the banks with lax regulation and took advantage of the situation with spending sprees. Our country was built on quicksand. Regardless of the arguements trotted about, about whos to blame etc, about our lifestyles from the boom, regardless of how we lived etc a deficit would still exist. Whether it would be this large - no ones knows.

Comes back to a poor tax base, over dependent on spending taxes like VAT, stamp duty, VRT etc.

People were given income tax and PRSI reductions to help fund private spending and indirect tax income, basically spend for Ireland.

So tax receipts took a hammering from the recession and spending has become unsustainable. If Income taxes and PRSI hadn't been so low the deficit wouldn't be so bad, plus you wouldn't have needed such big tax increases. Apparently USC isn't an income tax or something.

My name is URL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVRJ18oHsa8

ITALY’S new welfare minister Elsa Fornero yesterday broke down in tears as she announced a new batch of austerity measures aimed at getting the government’s spending back under control.

Fornero was overcome as she took part in a press conference last night, when she was discussing proposals to cut the traditional link between state pension and the rate of inflation

http://www.thejournal.ie/watch-italian-welfare-minister-cries-during-austerity-announcements-297258-Dec2011/

You wouldn't see our lot break down or show a human side like that.. not in a million years!

hal9000

its like some two parter tv show!
Previously on Battlestar Galactica Irish Budget 2012

Sonnenblumen

Some people are still confusing the Banking crisis with the Budget deficit, the latter which involves the State spending more than it receives in tax receipts, is a home grown problem.

The next 3-5 budgets will all be about removing the deficits, there will be pain for almost everyone and anyone who does escape (seems very unlikely) any cuts over the next 4 years can count themselves lucky.

Anyways, the over reliance on property related tax receipts from previous administration coupled with wreckless spending is the main cause of why we are where we are, and burdened with a massive deficit.

So we need to prepare for more belt tightening, so some will have to give up some recent gains whereas others will have to pay more. Thats democracy, no easy way out but it could be worse, with the far left in control!!:o

Consumption related taxes and not income taxes/ charges should be explored more.

steddyeddy

Im a postgraduate student and although there is massive cuts in the post grad grants I think ill be ok. I cant stomach the attitude behind the way the budget was delivered however. Enda gave some friend of his a 32,000 raise while cutting the winter fuel allowance by 6 weeks.

K-9

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Some people are still confusing the Banking crisis with the Budget deficit, the latter which involves the State spending more than it receives in tax receipts, is a home grown problem.

The next 3-5 budgets will all be about removing the deficits, there will be pain for almost everyone and anyone who does escape (seems very unlikely) any cuts over the next 4 years can count themselves lucky.

Anyways, the over reliance on property related tax receipts from previous administration coupled with wreckless spending is the main cause of why we are where we are, and burdened with a massive deficit.

So we need to prepare for more belt tightening, so some will have to give up some recent gains whereas others will have to pay more. Thats democracy, no easy way out but it could be worse, with the far left in control!!:o

Consumption related taxes and not income taxes/ charges should be explored more.

Payments to banks and bondholders while very annoying only count in interest payments on debt. About €3/4 Billion in the budget I think and that includes all Govt. debt, not just bank related..

To put it in perspective, that's the saving needed in this budget alone, not a series of 4/5.