"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

SandyfordGuy

Latest News:
Matthews Coaches begins its live test of Leap this week on its Bettystown – Laytown – Dublin route

robd

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

Latest News:
Matthews Coaches begins its live test of Leap this week on its Bettystown – Laytown – Dublin route

Amazing how quickly the little guys can get up and running.

Of course, it makes infinite sense as they are a competitive private company who need to attract customers by providing a decent level of service to make a profit.

This makes them more attractive.

blubloblu

The website feels like it was designed back when "integrated" ticketing was announced.

If you're someone who predominately uses Dublin Bus and wants to use online top-up, you need to travel to a shop where you could've topped up anyway to collect it. What's the point?

It's pretty bad they haven't upgraded the Irish Rail TVMs in time for launch, very annoying altogether.

robd

blubloblu wrote: »

The website feels like it was designed back when "integrated" ticketing was announced.

If you're someone who predominately uses Dublin Bus and wants to use online top-up, you need to travel to a shop where you could've topped up anyway to collect it. What's the point?

It's pretty bad they haven't upgraded the Irish Rail TVMs in time for launch, very annoying altogether.

All fare points. In addition Dublin Bus could do

robd

blubloblu wrote: »

The website feels like it was designed back when "integrated" ticketing was announced.

If you're someone who predominately uses Dublin Bus and wants to use online top-up, you need to travel to a shop where you could've topped up anyway to collect it. What's the point?

It's pretty bad they haven't upgraded the Irish Rail TVMs in time for launch, very annoying altogether.

All fare points. In addition Dublin Bus could do with introducing their own TVM's in select locations like they have in airport.

I think website looks like that as CIE and transport companies all seem to work off an old accessibility template. Large text etc.

AlekSmart

robd wrote: »

Amazing how quickly the little guys can get up and running.

Of course,it makes infinite sense as they are a competitive private company who need to attract customers by providing a decent level of service to make a profit.

This makes them more attractive.

Quite Robd,however with a fleet of 28 Coaches operating along a single core corridor route I can't agree that Matthews "Trialing" of Leap is particularly fast.

It is,after all,a trial and cannot be said to be "up and running" quite yet.

Matthews Coaches run a very impressive service and thoroughly deserve their accolades,but I'd suggest the company don't actually benefit from being hailed as "Amazing" in this particular case ?

Pablo Sanchez

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

No, how do you expect your card to be topped up? it doesn't have it's own internet connection after all. You don't need to collect your top up at a LUAS machine either or a paypoint.

You can collect your top up automatically when you tag on at an Irish Rail gate or alternatively at a LUAS validator. Unfortunately the bus does not have a direct connection to the itnernet so how can it know that you have topped up?

Is it right to say (according to DB's website) that if you have registered your card online, your card will be credited when you top up online without the need to physically go to one of the vendors?

blubloblu

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

Is it right to say (according to DB's website) that if you have registered your card online, your card will be credited when you top up online without the need to physically go to one of the vendors?

Your account will be credited, but your card won't know that until it picks up the top-up from Payzone/Luas TVM/Irish Rail turnstile.

Pablo Sanchez

blubloblu wrote: »

Your account will be credited, but your card won't know that until it picks up the top-up from Payzone/Luas TVM/Irish Rail turnstile.

Bizarre. Im sorry i signed up for this thing today.

AlekSmart

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

Bizarre. Im sorry i signed up for this thing today.

Utilize the new RTPI poles.....fit them with simple scanning pads,which can then allow online topped-up cards to activate.

The poles are there,the utility services are there,but the realization of just what can be achieved is yet to come ?

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak ?

IngazZagni

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

Bizarre. Im sorry i signed up for this thing today.

Hey it's public run public transport, what do you expect? My expectations are always quite low. But this LEAP card is still better than having different cards, or having to pay in cash. Makes things quicker.

I always see people running to the LUAS and then paying in cash for a ticket at the machine. If they had a Luas or now a LEAP card, they could just swipe it and get on, no rush needed.

So you are sorry for signing up? I assume you'll be using the old fashioned way of paying in cash or having separate tickets?

misslt

What does this mean for the current smartcards, say the student one?

I pay €16.50 for 5 days travel, travelling from Swords to UCD.

If I were paying cash, I'd either be paying €2.60 each way on the Xpresso bus, or €4.15 each way on say the 41 and 39a. I'm saving a ton with the smartcards, but if I were switch to Leap, I'd be paying the same as cash fares, is that right?

Are there plans to bring in Student fares on par with the current Student Rambler tickets? Will the ramblers be phased out?

Maybe I'm missing something but for someone that uses Dublin Bus only, are they saving anything by using Leap?

Pablo Sanchez

IngazZagni wrote: »

Hey it's public run public transport, what do you expect? My expectations are always quite low. But this LEAP card is still better than having different cards, or having to pay in cash. Makes things quicker.

I always see people running to the LUAS and then paying in cash for a ticket at the machine. If they had a Luas or now a LEAP card, they could just swipe it and get on, no rush needed.

So you are sorry for signing up? I assume you'll be using the old fashioned way of paying in cash or having separate tickets?

I think the idea is great, i rarely use public transport and when i do its always a pain to have the right amount in change etc, i see it also covers the nightlink which is excellent.

What makes me sorry i signed up is the fact that i will receive my card, with the €20 credit i put on it, and when i try to use the bus it wont let me without first finding a participating shop and 'activating it'. If it were not for this thread i would have no idea it was even an issue

How do I use my Leap Card?

1. Using your Leap Card is easy. You just add Travel Credit to your card to pay-as-you-go for each journey. When your Travel Credit starts to run low, just Top-Up again!

1. You can Top-Up your card:

• Online by clicking here
• At Leap Card agents
• At Luas ticket machines

No mention of the other necessary hoops.

IngazZagni

I think you would be better off sticking with the student card. As I look at this leaflet in front of me it says "Student Leap cards are not currently available, however they will go on sale in the future".

But sure I mean come on, having something like that available at launch? Far too complex for our public transport system to start all at once!

AlekSmart

misslt wrote: »

What does this mean for the current smartcards, say the student one?

I pay €16.50 for 5 days travel, travelling from Swords to UCD.

If I were paying cash, I'd either be paying €2.60 each way on the Xpresso bus, or €4.15 each way on say the 41 and 39a. I'm saving a ton with the smartcards, but if I were switch to Leap, I'd be paying the same as cash fares, is that right?

Are there plans to bring in Student fares on par with the current Student Rambler tickets? Will the ramblers be phased out?

Maybe I'm missing something but for someone that uses Dublin Bus only, are they saving anything by using Leap?

Right now a student buying a Leap card might as well be a turkey buying a basting brush...

I'd suggest Missit,that you splash out on at least one 30 day Student Rambler asap which with any luck will bring you to the launch of Student Leap.

The Student Leap product will be a personalized card with a Photo ID inbuilt,which will immediately solve a lot of the revenue protection issues surrounding Student Tickets in general.

robd

IngazZagni wrote: »

I think you would be better off sticking with the student card. As I look at this leaflet in front of me it says "Student Leap cards are not currently available, however they will go on sale in the future".

But sure I mean come on, having something like that available at launch? Far too complex for our public transport system to start all at once!

It's no different to how the Oyster card in London and many other systems were implemented. Functionality is grouped, and the system is rolled out in stages. As the user base is increased and the kinks are ironed out new functionality is added, increasing the user base further.

This is the modern approach to technology projects. Anyone with experience of rolling out technology projects would be in agreement with this approach.

I've gone through 2 test phases and have being using it for about 8 weeks in total now.

noelfirl

As has been discussed before in here, how exactly are people expecting their cards to receive credit when they top up online? A bolt of lightning from above? This is exactly the same type of system that has been put in place in other cities and countries. You nominate a mechanism to collect your credit and you get it there. There's no other way to physically tell the card that it has been topped up. An improvement might be to allow ANY location collection of credit (TVM or any shop) and a definite improvement would be to send out the credit as quickly as possible (the FAQ online suggests up to 48h, which is pretty insane).

Some suggestions that it could be done on bus, but this would require fitting all buses with a live connection to the backend database or at least the distribution of daily white lists to buses at the garages.

noelfirl

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

I think the idea is great, i rarely use public transport and when i do its always a pain to have the right amount in change etc, i see it also covers the nightlink which is excellent.

What makes me sorry i signed up is the fact that i will receive my card, with the €20 credit i put on it, and when i try to use the bus it wont let me without first finding a participating shop and 'activating it'. If it were not for this thread i would have no idea it was even an issue

How do I use my Leap Card?

1. Using your Leap Card is easy. You just add Travel Credit to your card to pay-as-you-go for each journey. When your Travel Credit starts to run low, just Top-Up again!

1. You can Top-Up your card:

• Online by clicking here
• At Leap Card agents
• At Luas ticket machines

No mention of the other necessary hoops.

When you filled in the online form to apply for your card, did you nominate a collection point for your credit? If not I don't think you need to activate your credit. One would assume that ordered cards come with credit on them, whereas the above section of the site refers to additional top ups after you receive the card (although it is a point they should clarify in their FAQs).

penexpers

I just checked and Oyster card has the same restrictions on top-up. You can top-up online but it needs to be activated at a tube station/tram stop.

Pablo Sanchez

noelfirl wrote: »

When you filled in the online form to apply for your card, did you nominate a collection point for your credit? If not I don't think you need to activate your credit. One would assume that ordered cards come with credit on them, whereas the above section of the site refers to additional top ups after you receive the card (although it is a point they should clarify in their FAQs).

Actually they didnt ask me to nominate a pick up point, so perhaps the first one comes preloaded and ready to go.

I know people are asking if were expecting cards to be credited as if by magic, thats not the case, i simply thought that your credit info is held on a central database and when you scan your card it confirms if you have sufficient credit or not for the transaction, similar to collecting points on your Tesco card or as DB themselves say, like topping up your phone credit.

misslt

AlekSmart wrote: »

Right now a student buying a Leap card might as well be a turkey buying a basting brush...

I'd suggest Missit,that you splash out on at least one 30 day Student Rambler asap which with any luck will bring you to the launch of Student Leap.

The Student Leap product will be a personalized card with a Photo ID inbuilt,which will immediately solve a lot of the revenue protection issues surrounding Student Tickets in general.

Thanks! I might see if the budget will stretch to two, can I still use them until the expiry date on the front or will they be phased out before that?

Here's hoping the student leap cards will offer some savings...otherwise I'll be moving to within cycling distance of UCD

scary

Went to 2 different shops to get the card, first shop said it wasn't out for another week and the other had them but were not authorized to sell them as they were waiting on a rep to come out and activate them before they could be sold.
Not a great start really.

dublinman1990

Do you what location the shops were in, Scary. Presumably, where you got the card, should have had it done in weeks in advance to get the system up and running.

I've been a 7 bus twice on Friday and as expected both buses had the two validators in place.

That problem not getting your card today seems mysterious if you ask me.

BenShermin

scary wrote: »

Went to 2 different shops to get the card, first shop said it wasn't out for another week and the other had them but were not authorized to sell them as they were waiting on a rep to come out and activate them before they could be sold.
Not a great start really.

Actually quite surprised people are having problems purchasing the card. I went to my local Londis this afternoon and asked for the card, the clerk asked me to give him a minute as the cards were in the stockroom. Two minutes later himself and the entire five staff in the shop came to my till and the manager gave the staff training on how to issue the card. Bantering away with the lads behind the counter I was told that I was the first punter to buy the card in that shop.

No problems getting the €1.85 fare on the bus, and no double charging me either, but it is a very slow process.

dublinman1990

I just read that if people are using the free travel scheme at the moment, will be entitled to a leap card with details linked from the DSP. :eek:

I suppose, I thinking now is that the DSP 'use' their details like a student leap card, with their photo taken and everything else. That is quite shocking to know that detail today. I thought those details were for a seperate National ID Card.

Did anyone else hear at all if I may ask?

Hear is the article to prove that.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1212/breaking41.html

hmmm

It's not good UI to expect the LEAP card user to realise that after they buy credit online they have to activate it. You can roll your eyes up to heaven and ask "well do you think that every bus has an Internet connection", to which the majority of the public will probably say "I guess".

There's an education deficit there that should be addressed or my bus will be stuck for hours while the driver explains to people who "bought credit online last night" that there is nothing on their card.

I also hadn't realised credit can take 48 hours to be applied. For goodness sake why?

scary

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Do you what location the shops were in, Scary. Presumably, where you got the card, should have had it done in weeks in advance to get the system up and running.

I've been a 7 bus twice on Friday and as expected both buses had the two validators in place.

That problem not getting your card today seems mysterious if you ask me.

Both shops were in the square in tallaght hopefully I'll pick one up tomorrow somewhere

AlekSmart

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I just read that if people are using the free travel scheme at the moment, will be entitled to a leap card with details linked from the DSP. :eek:

I suppose, I thinking now is that the DSP 'use' their details like a student leap card, with their photo taken and everything else. That is quite shocking to know that detail today. I thought those details were for a seperate National ID Card.

Did anyone else hear at all if I may ask?

Hear is the article to prove that.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1212/breaking41.html

HMMMMmmmmmm....This IS a new development,and one wonders if "The Paper of Record" has got it correct ?

If it's true then Whoopee,at last somebody has applied a little logic,but I suspect it's mis/disinformation in the heat of a moment....?

BTW,I just love Mammy tellin us in 2002 that she wanted it in within TWO years ....:D

Geuze

http://www.ov-chipkaart.nl/

The Dutch smart-card system seems to involve readers when exiting the bus.

So it seems you tag-on and tag-off on the bus.

The fare is a fixed 79c per trip + a distance fee depending per km where you live.

Key point: the 79c is charged once, so if you switch to a different bus / tram during the same trip you are not charged the 79c again.

The Leap system doesn't allow that yet, but it will eventually (I think).

Flukey

Some interesting quotes in that article:

IrishTimes wrote:

The launch of the Leap Card follows 15,000 successful test journeys by members of the public, according to Mr Kelly.

What exactly constitutes a successful test journey?

IrishTimes wrote:

We will have a media campaign in the New Year.

Seeing at the official launch was yesterday and the taste phase, at which time there was also publicity, isn't that leaving it a bit late? I know the media is tied up with Christmas ads at present, but they should really be advertising it with gusto from now, so that people will get one before the new year starts.

IrishTimes wrote:

He said error rates in the new system were “exceptionally low” at less than half of one per cent of journeys.

A bit like questioning what a successful journey is, what exactly does this mean? If people are being overcharged, and I am not even including double payments in that, that is a flaw. We all know about the problems with people not knowing how many stages they are travelling. From what we've seen in the threads here, even allowing for the fact that people are more likely to post when they have had a problem, you would expect error rates to be higher than that.