"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

robd

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I couldnt find the answer to this query on the FAQ' so maybe someone here can answer..

Does the leap card operate like a travel 90 ticket??

If I get 2 buses within a short time space do i only pay one fare similiar to Travel90??

No, not at the moment. It just does single fares. Travel 90 tickets are supposed to be added in the next phase but not date for that has been given.

el flaco

All the features and future features (including price capping and transfer discounts) are covered in their terms and conditions on the website. Theres a lot of the usual guff you'd expect on a terms and conditions page, but if you just skim the headings you get the gist. Cue unnecessarily long URL:

https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=CG%2fCj953WkPB%2b7fwjkLFshsyP7wecX6fiV0VBn3Q632F20yhboVXGTVmv%2b2bImvcFvyDWv8wk%2bd4E5kAGPCvjpJvBUgOhvVEg%2fB6ZgVyLiI6nLqx13jMpsQIKgDUASmGM793kdSI9FJOtf2oYKBBrP3uRbgVAG0ZGo31awr2Vmg%3d

mmclo

So if you have less than 4.30 credit but more than the cost of your journaey can you travel?

Dravokivich

mmclo wrote: »

So if you have less than 4.30 credit but more than the cost of your journaey can you travel?

It'll dip into your deposit (reserve fund). You can only use the reserve fund once your balance is positive. If you dip into the reserve fund and the credit re-applied upon tagging off still leaves your balance in a negative, you can't use the card again until you topup.

SilverLiningOK

On a side issue, they say protect the Leap Card in a wallet. There an opportunity for advertisers to promote themselves with free Leap wallets. In UK IKEA have done so. They could also be an item to buy. I using one I got free courtesy of Barclays when visiting tennis at London's O2 a few years ago.

A whole world of variety - Oyster Card Wallets

_Kaiser_

So as a curious observer and former daily bus user for many many years (until all that time wasted standing around waiting on buses coupled with the need to go through "An Lar" for every journey drove me - literally - into my own car), I find it very bemusing and "typically Oirish" to be reading here about all these problems.

If I'm right then...

- There's no real benefit to these cards for a daily bus user
- It takes longer to finish the transaction than cash in many cases
- People are being overcharged left, right and centre
- There's no easy way to check how much is on the card at any given time
- The staff are virtually no help
- Unless you find a shop that can activate the thing, you're screwed

Now before all the fanboys come on slating me, I have no stake in this. I am quite happy with my car and despite the expense, the benefits of going where and when I want, in comfort, security and in warm/dry or cool conditions will forever outweigh the shambles that is public transport in Dublin

(No I don't count LUAS - only any use if you live on the south side - or even DART/Commuter Rail - only of use if you live along the coast or out towards Blanch.. I'm talking primarily Dublin Bus here)

But I have to say, it sounds like a complete mess and I certainly wouldn't be as willing as some here to accept the excuses - it's not like they haven't had enough time to get this "integrated ticketing" lark worked out and countless examples abroad to pick/learn from.. it's just the usual Irish approach of "ah shure it'll be grand" by the look of it :rolleyes:

Add on the imminent fare increases and why on earth would anyone who has an alternative available to them choose public transport in Dublin (I won't even mention the shambles outside the city) - seriously, I challenge anyone to convince me why I should choose public transport to get from say Blanch to Clontarf (in reality I live further out but can do this run most days in about 25-30 mins in the car and I'm parked up in the office having breakfast).

I don't want to hear about "oh but in the future blah blah".. I'm talking about now, today because it seems to me that very little (except the price of course and the cutbacks to services!) has changed in the 7 years that I WAS a daily user of these "services"

robd

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Add on the imminent fare increases and why on earth would anyone who has an alternative available to them choose public transport in Dublin (I won't even mention the shambles outside the city) - seriously, I challenge anyone to convince me why I should choose public transport to get from say Blanch to Clontarf (in reality I live further out but can do this run most days in about 25-30 mins in the car and I'm parked up in the office having breakfast).

You represent the majority in Dublin unfortunately. Dublin is very clearly a car city where policies are put in place to get people onto public transport. Unfortunately that's really just to make traffic a bit lighter for those that do drive.

The bigger issue is that public transport is not campaign issue. No-one is demanding it so visions are put in place but never actually implemented. The average person really doesn't care as they'd prefer to drive just like yourself.

robd

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

If I'm right then...

- There's no real benefit to these cards for a daily bus user
- It takes longer to finish the transaction than cash in many cases
- People are being overcharged left, right and centre
- There's no easy way to check how much is on the card at any given time
- The staff are virtually no help
- Unless you find a shop that can activate the thing, you're screwed

- As of 1st January there's a 9% discount over cash fares.
- Yes Dublin Bus implementation is slow and really crap from a passenger perspective.
- Good few cases on here alright. Including myself on DART. Major problem is lack of thought towards refunding passengers when clearly overcharged.
- Driver can print a receipt for you which will show last 5 transactions. Other than that online (but only at end of each day as balance is stored in card and machines only connect when in bus depot).
- Staff aren't great. Bus Drivers haven't had much training or good enough training and they frustrate easily.
- Cards are activated before posting. In certain cases card doesn't appear to have been activated which does mean you need to find somewhere to activate. The really bad thing is leapcard people have posted a list of 400 or so agents but very few of them have received training and are in a position to help.

LXFlyer

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Add on the imminent fare increases and why on earth would anyone who has an alternative available to them choose public transport in Dublin (I won't even mention the shambles outside the city) - seriously, I challenge anyone to convince me why I should choose public transport to get from say Blanch to Clontarf (in reality I live further out but can do this run most days in about 25-30 mins in the car and I'm parked up in the office having breakfast).

I suppose the question I'd ask is how many people are doing that precise journey all day that would justify a bus route?

Orbital journeys are notoriously difficult to plan due to most individual's start and end points being different. It is far easier to plan radial corridors as there is high usage all along the route.

Mr Simpson

In section 10.2 it says Leap cards may not be used by more than one person on a Journey, surely that contradicts Dublin Bus issuing an additional ticket with the Leap card.

goingnowhere

mmcn90 wrote: »

In section 10.2 it says Leap cards may not be used by more than one person on a Journey, surely that contradicts Dublin Bus issuing an additional ticket with the Leap card.

The second passenger gets a paper ticket, the leap card holder does not need to be present thereafter.

What 10.2 is about that only one person may use the leap card for transit purposes at a time. When the card is used on a bus to pay for a second (or third, ...) passenger the card treats that second passenger as a non transit transaction (it won't be shown on the Luas TVM transaction list) so the price of that ticket is not counted towards the cards capping/rebate counters.

Aard

One you register a Leap card, can you give it to somebody else while you're not using it? If so, it could be handy for a family to have one Leap card in the house for the odd time that people might need it...

coylemj

Aard wrote: »

One you register a Leap card, can you give it to somebody else while you're not using it? If so, it could be handy for a family to have one Leap card in the house for the odd time that people might need it...

Assuming it's an adult card, there's absolutely no problem as is the case today with an Irish Rail Smartcard or a Luas card.

Mr Simpson

goingnowhere wrote: »

The second passenger gets a paper ticket, the leap card holder does not need to be present thereafter.

What 10.2 is about that only one person may use the leap card for transit purposes at a time. When the card is used on a bus to pay for a second (or third, ...) passenger the card treats that second passenger as a non transit transaction (it won't be shown on the Luas TVM transaction list) so the price of that ticket is not counted towards the cards capping/rebate counters.

Thanks for clearing that up, the t&c's seem a bit poorly written and open to interpretation in general.

Flukey

Aard wrote: »

No daily cap right now, but will be introduced in the future.

That would be a backward step. If the credit is on the card, you should be able to use it as much as you want on any day. They are still getting your money, whenever you use it. It should be like the unlimited travel tickets where you don't have a daily limit. With my annual pass I have no limit. That's the way it should be, with credit still available.

SilverLiningOK wrote: »

On a side issue, they say protect the Leap Card in a wallet. There an opportunity for advertisers to promote themselves with free Leap wallets. In UK IKEA have done so.

I was in London last year and got one of those IKEA card wallets for an Oyster card. Not wanting to keep my Leap card in the same ticket wallet as my Dublin Bus/Luas annual pass, which is in one of those black Dublin Bus wallets, I put it into the IKEA one. The Dublin Bus wallet is more durable, but for the purpose of the testing phase, using the IKEA worked well.

markpb

Flukey wrote: »

That would be a backward step. If the credit is on the card, you should be able to use it as much as you want on any day. They are still getting your money, whenever you use it. It should be like the unlimited travel tickets where you don't have a daily limit. With my annual pass I have no limit. That's the way it should be, with credit still available.

The daily cap refers to price, not number of trips. If you use DB several times a day, the system will stop deducting money off your card once you've exceeded the cost of a daily bus ticket. You can keep making more trips but they'll be free. It sounds like it will also work for DB + Luas, DB + DART, etc as well as applying weekly caps.

calex71

Used my card for the 1st time yesterday morning, a €1.85 fare to town as usual on a Friday morning, No trouble using it and the diver told me how to use it.

The problem is with my balance , 1.85 from 20.00 credit leaves 18.15 and NOT the 18.14 the shows remaining on the leap card site :mad: I want my 1c back

Can anyone explain this ? It's not a big deal but it's more principle , sod it I'll give them an email to complain

2 LeapCard.ie website Travel Credit Top-Up 13/12/2011 1:10 PM €10.00 €10.00
3 Sales Agent Travel Credit Top-Up 14/12/2011 8:27 PM €10.00 €20.00
4 Dublin Bus Travel Credit Deduction 16/12/2011 10:37 AM €-1.85 €18.14

Jehuty42

calex71 wrote: »

The problem is with my balance , 1.85 from 20.00 credit leaves 18.15 and NOT the 18.14 the shows remaining on the leap card site :mad: I want my 1c back

Yeah, apparently this is a rounding error from the floating point arithmetic.

Aard

Lol, basics. From the RUI post though, it seems not to have any negative effects for subsequent transactions.

Nermal

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Yeah, apparently this is a rounding error from the floating point arithmetic.

Incredible. Such a basic error it makes me wonder if someone's pulling an 'Office Space' style prank to take all our rounded cents.

starviewadams

Nermal wrote: »

Incredible. Such a basic error it makes me wonder if someone's pulling an 'Office Space' style prank to take all our rounded cents.

Na,nobody who works for the NTA is that smart!

rye_212

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

So as a curious observer and former daily bus user for many many years (until all that time wasted standing around waiting on buses coupled with the need to go through "An Lar" for every journey drove me - literally - into my own car), I find it very bemusing and "typically Oirish" to be reading here about all these problems.

If I'm right then...

- There's no real benefit to these cards for a daily bus user
- It takes longer to finish the transaction than cash in many cases
- People are being overcharged left, right and centre
- There's no easy way to check how much is on the card at any given time
- The staff are virtually no help
- Unless you find a shop that can activate the thing, you're screwed

Now before all the fanboys come on slating me, I have no stake in this. I am quite happy with my car and despite the expense, the benefits of going where and when I want, in comfort, security and in warm/dry or cool conditions will forever outweigh the shambles that is public transport in Dublin

(No I don't count LUAS - only any use if you live on the south side - or even DART/Commuter Rail - only of use if you live along the coast or out towards Blanch.. I'm talking primarily Dublin Bus here)

But I have to say, it sounds like a complete mess and I certainly wouldn't be as willing as some here to accept the excuses - it's not like they haven't had enough time to get this "integrated ticketing" lark worked out and countless examples abroad to pick/learn from.. it's just the usual Irish approach of "ah shure it'll be grand" by the look of it :rolleyes:

Add on the imminent fare increases and why on earth would anyone who has an alternative available to them choose public transport in Dublin (I won't even mention the shambles outside the city) - seriously, I challenge anyone to convince me why I should choose public transport to get from say Blanch to Clontarf (in reality I live further out but can do this run most days in about 25-30 mins in the car and I'm parked up in the office having breakfast).

I don't want to hear about "oh but in the future blah blah".. I'm talking about now, today because it seems to me that very little (except the price of course and the cutbacks to services!) has changed in the 7 years that I WAS a daily user of these "services"

I used mine yesterday for the first time. It was on a bus and all worked perfectly. I told the driver that I was unfamiliar with the procedure and he told me where to put the card etc. Confirming the transaction via leapcard.ie took more time than necessary, but less than smooth website service is par for the course with Dublin Bus.

You only normally get posts here about issues, not the successful transactions. Akin to dublinbikes, I expect a PR release after a month telling us there have been x thousands journeys already.

As for the car alternative, come back to comment on that when it costs €150 to fill the tank each time. Five years time?

Posy

I used mine the other day and the driver told me to put the Leap card on the activation thingy but not to hold it there with my hand. But when I let go, the card just slid off.. the driver didn't know what to do and said 'eh, that's not meant to happen but it doesn't work if you're holding it..' so I had to keep it held awkwardly from the side. Is that right? It seems pretty awkward if you can't use your hand to keep the card from falling onto the floor!?

Also, I can use the Leap card to pay for say, myself and my friend, correct? But would one transaction be charged at the 'Leap Card' price and the other at the cash fare (when they go up in the New Year..?) or both at the Leap fare?
So far, it seems pretty complicated, but I got a 30c reduction yesterday using it on the Luas instead of cash, which helped.

AlekSmart

Posy wrote: »

I used mine the other day and the driver told me to put the Leap card on the activation thingy but not to hold it there with my hand. But when I let go, the card just slid off.. the driver didn't know what to do and said 'eh, that's not meant to happen but it doesn't work if you're holding it..' so I had to keep it held awkwardly from the side. Is that right? It seems pretty awkward if you can't use your hand to keep the card from falling onto the floor!?

Also, I can use the Leap card to pay for say, myself and my friend, correct? But would one transaction be charged at the 'Leap Card' price and the other at the cash fare (when they go up in the New Year..?) or both at the Leap fare?
So far, it seems pretty complicated, but I got a 30c reduction yesterday using it on the Luas instead of cash, which helped.

Good Observation Posy, short answer is that it's ok to hold the card,however I've had several people place the card on the machine and remove their hand,only for the card to slide off...The actual reading-pad is at an angle,which results in the card sliding off !!!

Poor preparation i'm afraid...:(

Good question on the multiple fare transaction which I understand will be ALL at the Leap rate.

However you are dead-right on the complexity issue,we have taken something with the capability to make our lives SO much easier,and instead we manage to create a many headed hydra who'se effect is to devour all who contact it !!!

Posy

Cheers!

Mr Simpson

From what I've seen a lot of people dont have a clue how to use leap on buses, Ive seen a huge amount of people touching it off the right because they dont know the driver can validate it

dublinman1990

I haven't seen anyone using a leap card on buses or at DART Stations around Blackrock and Dun Laoghaire yet.

The rollout seems to be at it's slowest out here.:(

SandyfordGuy

mmcn90 wrote: »

From what I've seen a lot of people dont have a clue how to use leap on buses, Ive seen a huge amount of people touching it off the right because they dont know the driver can validate it

Maybe they're just going over 13 stages?

robd

Posy wrote: »

I used mine the other day and the driver told me to put the Leap card on the activation thingy but not to hold it there with my hand. But when I let go, the card just slid off..

I was asked to do the same for the first time last week. My suspicions would be that there has been some kind of instruction to the drivers on this one.

It's incorrect as in many cases the card just slides off. The leapcard sticker is a bit slippy in some cases and reader is at an angle.

The correct thing is to place card flat onto reader with hand on top. If the card is not in full contact with reader it intermittently doesn't work.

markpb

robd wrote: »

I was asked to do the same for the first time last week. My suspicions would be that there has been some kind of instruction to the drivers on this one.

Either the drivers misheard during their training or there's some serious Chinese whispers going on at one of the depots - it's a completely nonsensical idea.