Seanie Johnston Kildare Transfer?

premierstone

bruschi wrote: »

in fairness premierstone, you dont have to talk to media, and he gave a full interview. he could easily have refused and kept a low profile in the matter. plus he is also on record inviting the media to his "home" for a cup of tea.

Quite true, and obviously Seanie has made bad decisions throughout this saga, but he certainly isn't alone in that regard, and him inviting the media for a 'cup of tea' was a tounge in cheek response to the accusations that he wasn't actually residing in Kildare.

Felexicon

bruschi wrote: »

and whilst I may agree with that sentiment, why does it mean then that he should be granted his transfer? I think its pretty clear that the whole set up of his house in Straffan is only to fulfill paperwork. he didnt "move" there because of personal situation, or because of work. It was soley so he could try get a transfer processed. Similar things happen at club level. I see it in Wexford where players try to move to another club and put in fake addresses or make some sort of move to try wrangle a transfer through. The fact it was played out in the media with Johnston made everyone aware of this.

Personally, I dont agree with it at all, as it can open up a whole situation where players can get transfers without preper reasoning. Someone petulantly mentioned the Dublin hurlers on here, but they were all living in Dublin for work or personal reasons before their transfers were processed. It happens, players do move counties for certain reasons. But this case is not like that, at all. And its pretty obvious too. Johnston is not hte only player in GAA history to be dropped in his prime because of disagreements with management. It is a common occurrance, same at club level.

It doesn't mean he should be granted a transfer and I've never stated as such. If you know the housing situation is only to push the transfer through you know alot more than me on that aspect. And if what you say is true and thats the decieding factor then the transfer should not go through.

premierstone

bruschi wrote: »

and whilst I may agree with that sentiment, why does it mean then that he should be granted his transfer? I think its pretty clear that the whole set up of his house in Straffan is only to fulfill paperwork. he didnt "move" there because of personal situation, or because of work. It was soley so he could try get a transfer processed. Similar things happen at club level. I see it in Wexford where players try to move to another club and put in fake addresses or make some sort of move to try wrangle a transfer through. The fact it was played out in the media with Johnston made everyone aware of this.

Personally, I dont agree with it at all, as it can open up a whole situation where players can get transfers without preper reasoning. Someone petulantly mentioned the Dublin hurlers on here, but they were all living in Dublin for work or personal reasons before their transfers were processed. It happens, players do move counties for certain reasons. But this case is not like that, at all. And its pretty obvious too. Johnston is not hte only player in GAA history to be dropped in his prime because of disagreements with management. It is a common occurrance, same at club level.

I can tell you for a fact that at least one of them Dublin hurlers was approached by the DCB with the offer to hurl before he moved to Dublin and they helped in him finding employment, and this isn't a new issue and certainly not exclusive to Dublin either, my gripe with what has transpired is why now? Why Seanie Johnston? Can we not have consistency, surely not too much to ask for?

Felexicon

premierstone wrote: »

I can tell you for a fact that at least one of them Dublin hurlers was approached by the DCB with the offer to hurl before he moved to Dublin and they helped in him finding employment, and this isn't a new issue and certainly not exclusive to Dublin either, my gripe with what has transpired is why now? Why Seanie Johnston? Can we not have consistency, surely not too much to ask for?

With GAA commitees? LOL!!!! Have you been smoking something

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

You have proof that either Johnson or McGeaney invited said journalist, or is it possible he was doing he's job and found out when and where they were training?

There was one reporter there. He hadn't been to any other St Kevin's training session and is the reporter who Johnston originally spoke to from the Independent.

You do the math.

I doubt he just decided to turn up one cold Sunday morning to watch an intermediate Kildare team train.

Lemlin

Felexicon wrote: »

SO WHAT!!!!!!
He can do whatever he wants and this in no way validates the point that he and McGeeney orgainised the reporters for the training session

No, my point above validates that. And it was one reporter. The same reporter Johnston always gives the "scoops" too.

premierstone

Lemlin wrote: »

There was one reporter there. He hadn't been to any other St Kevin's training session and is the reporter who Johnston originally spoke to from the Independent.

You do the math.

I doubt he just decided to turn up one cold Sunday morning to watch an intermediate Kildare team train.

I know he was there to report on the fact that Seanie was traiining with a Kildare club I never said otherwise, you insinuated it was at the request of Seanie/McGeaney, I merely asked if you had proof to back it up, as to me it sounds like a reporter doing he's job?

BTW I am not saying you are wrong either just seeking clarification on whether its your opinion or something you are certain of.

Felexicon

Lemlin wrote: »

No, my point above validates that. And it was one reporter. The same reporter Johnston always gives the "scoops" too.

Ok if you think that's validating a point that's fine

premierstone

Felexicon wrote: »

With GAA commitees? LOL!!!! Have you been smoking something

Ah yeah, were supposed to become more cynical in our old age, I seem to be going the other way.

Lemlin

Felexicon wrote: »

It doesn't mean he should be granted a transfer and I've never stated as such. If you know the housing situation is only to push the transfer through you know alot more than me on that aspect. And if what you say is true and thats the decieding factor then the transfer should not go through.

Johnston works in Cavan and lives in Cavan. Even when this whole saga started, people in the county were laughing when the local paper reported that he was still using the gym in Breffni Park.

It just happens that his job means he will be off work from the end of May until September so will be able to relocate to Kildare for the three months and train there.

Lemlin

Felexicon wrote: »

Ok if you think that's validating a point that's fine

And how is it not validating it? Do you think the reporter magically knew to turn up to training at intermediate Kildare club one Sunday morning?

And it just happened to be the same reporter that Johnston always speaks to that knew to turn up?

Pull your head out of the sand and admit when you're beaten. Johnston courts the media. Read the Anglo Celt article earlier in this thread about him and his courtship of them. He regularly gave interviews before games over the years, both for Cavan and DCU.

Come back when you know your facts. Sunday was about yet more media attention grabbing.

bruschi

Felexicon wrote: »

It doesn't mean he should be granted a transfer and I've never stated as such. If you know the housing situation is only to push the transfer through you know alot more than me on that aspect. And if what you say is true and thats the decieding factor then the transfer should not go through.

fair enough. just on the rest of it, if you hadnt already seen anything previous:

In December, Johnston applied in writing to the CCCrequesting permission to play football for Kildare without leaving his home club Cavan Gaels, which was refused.
On January 12, he appeared before the Central Appeals Committee to appeal this, and the plea again fell ondeaf ears.
Later that week, he broke his silence on the matter in an interview, explaining that he now lived in Straffan, Co Kildare, a revelation which came as a surprise to Cavan county board officers given that he had no family or work ties in the county and was employed as a teacher in Cavan Town, 82 miles away

http://www.anglocelt.ie/sport/gaelicfootball/articles/2012/03/08/4009475-johnston-move-denied-by-croke-park/

premierstone wrote: »

I can tell you for a fact that at least one of them Dublin hurlers was approached by the DCB with the offer to hurl before he moved to Dublin and they helped in him finding employment, and this isn't a new issue and certainly not exclusive to Dublin either, my gripe with what has transpired is why now? Why Seanie Johnston? Can we not have consistency, surely not too much to ask for?

as flexicon says, consistency in GAA. madness. You are right, there have been numerous cases. Thomas Walsh moved from Carlow to Wicklow in highly controversial circumstances, his adress being a property owned by the countys main sponsors.

But just because those went through, doesnt make them right either. those transfers should never have gone through. The new rule brought in of playing for the club a year previous will also help the cause, and if Johnstons case does nothing but stop all these manufactured transfers, then it will be worth it.

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

I know he was there to report on the fact that Seanie was traiining with a Kildare club I never said otherwise, you insinuated it was at the request of Seanie/McGeaney, I merely asked if you had proof to back it up, as to me it sounds like a reporter doing he's job?

BTW I am not saying you are wrong either just seeking clarification on whether its your opinion or something you are certain of.

Read the Anglo Celt article earlier in this thread. It talks about Seanie and his courtship of the media and the training session and that said reporter conveniently turned up.

The reporter in the Celt is alot better connected to the whole scenario than anyone.

Felexicon

Lemlin wrote: »

And how is it not validating it? Do you think the reporter magically knew to turn up to training at intermediate Kildare club one Sunday morning?

And it just happened to be the same reporter that Johnston always speaks to that knew to turn up?

Pull your head out of the sand and admit when you're beaten. Johnston courts the media. Read the Anglo Celt article earlier in this thread about him and his courtship of them. He regularly gave interviews before games over the years, both for Cavan and DCU.

Come back when you know your facts.

Admit when I'm beaten? Sorry I didn't realise this was a competition all of a sudden. Also this thread is about wheter or not the transfer should go through not if he courts the media or not.

Also anyone with a passing interest in Kildare football knew he was starting training that day and as a journalist it's that reporters job to know when what is considered new worthy(not by me) stories are happening

Lemlin

Felexicon wrote: »

Admit when I'm beaten? Sorry I didn't realise this was a competition all of a sudden. Also this thread is about wheter or not the transfer should go through not if he courts the media or not.

Also anyone with a passing interest in Kildare football knew he was starting training that day and as a journalist it's that reporters job to know when what is considered new worthy(not by me) stories are happening

You were the one questioned my point of him courting the media. I've now answered your point. Have a read of the below and the rest from page 34 of this thread:

Cavan football is claustrophobic, like an over-crowded room. Clubs and committees leak like the Titanic and everyone knows everyone's business. In that environment, subterfuge is always likely to be, if not immediately exposed, then worse: the subject of dark mutterings until it grows legs and walks so far that it has turned into a different story altogether.

It's better to be straight. Johnston told The Irish Independent that he was ditched "after a ten-second phone call". It has subsequently emerged that Johnston was the one who ended the call. That's the story coming from one side, in any case, and we have no choice but to take it as fact. Why? Johnston ain't talking - well, not to this newspaper. Not only is he not in the talking business, he's not in the acknowledging calls business, unless it's a national paper.

Public relations is a specialist industry and an art that takes a lot of mastering. There is nothing more dangerous than an amateur PR man, which is why professional sportsmen - rugby players, top athletes, soccer stars - have agents and publicists to make sure their clients say the right thing. Sean Johnston, for a short time, enjoyed a similar profile on the back pages, yet batted for himself, making error after error.

A Kildare-based national freelance reporter, Darragh Ó Conchuir, and one of the top freelancer snappers with ties to the nationals turned up during Johnston's first training session with St Kevin's ten days ago. Either the club or the county board wil have tipped them off. How all involved expected this to be received - or Johnston his smug-sounding invitation to reporters to "call for tea" - is anyone's guess.

Then there was St Kevin's chairman Martin Murray publicly criticising Cavan county board for blocking a player who is "committed" to his new club. What staggering nerve that took.
The decision to go to the Indo and strenously insist that his permanent residence was in Straffan also backfired. Football is a way of life here; as Cavan's top scorer and a player who has featured in ten county finals in as many years, Johnston is one of the most recognisable people in the county.

He teaches in Cavan Town and, until recently at any rate, lived in an estate on the edge of the town. His house-mates are well-known. He would have been seen out and about and the football public was always going to draw its own conclusions as to the veracity of the whole thing.

County footballers like Johnston have a strict training regime, even in the off-season. That means spending a lot of evenings in the gym. Was he using a gym near his "home" in Straffan or did he go through his weights sessions after work and then drive the 82 miles to his permanent residence?
On one occasion, he used the gym at Breffni Park with another player and, leaving, apparently met Val Andrews entering before Cavan training.

What a pleasant conversation that must have been.
Had he wanted to play the role of the silent, wronged victim, he could easily have done so and, spun correctly, he'd have come out of this looking well. Instead, he granted an interview to the Indo who gave it the full tabloid treatment, blasting "LET ME GO" across its back page. He admitetd he was "poor" last year but insisted that he lived in Straffan and that that was the reason he wanted to move. It was an insult to the intelligence of readers who, just as they wanted to know why he was dropped, must surely have wondered why he was living in Kildare? That question wasn't addressed.

He also dragged his club into the mess, putting the ball in their court by asking them to appeal to the DRA on his behalf to basically allow him to leave the county. If not, it soon became clear, he was leaving the Gaels anyway. Just who advised him that this was a clever position to take in the media and in general?

After that, Johnston went back into his media shell, only re-emerging to grant that pre-arranged interview to Ó Conchuir.
And then the waiting game began once more.

Yes, everyone with a passing interest in Kildare football knew but only the journalist that Johnston speaks to turned up?

You're running rings round yourself here.

premierstone

bruschi wrote: »

But just because those went through, doesnt make them right either. those transfers should never have gone through. The new rule brought in of playing for the club a year previous will also help the cause, and if Johnstons case does nothing but stop all these manufactured transfers, then it will be worth it.

Fully agree with you, but it is BS that he is been singled out like this, when others have been allowed to make a mockery of the rules for years, Kildare themselves have been involved in more than one, and on both ends of it!

premierstone

The Anglo Celt is completely impartial in all of this of course and have no hidden agenda at all

bruschi

premierstone wrote: »

The Anglo Celt is completely impartial in all of this of course and have no hidden agenda at all

well the piece I quoted only states facts. granted, the second one is pretty much opinionated but still gives an idea of the ridiculousness of the whole saga.

I dont think its BS that this is being singled out because others got away with it. Most of the others got away with it because they went and got their loopholes sorted straight away (but as I said, does also not make them right, at all, they should all have been stopped). Johnston made a mess of his transfer, and it was clearly shown to be fraudulent when he tried transfer, but not leave his club and appealed that decision. Surely it would set alarm bells that something was amiss when he then declared he was living in Straffan a week after that. Plus he has been doing a lot of it through the media, so brought on the publicity and attention upon himself.

Felexicon

Lemlin wrote: »

You were the one questioned my point of him courting the media. I've now answered your point. Have a read of the below and the rest from page 34 of this thread:




Yes, everyone with a passing interest in Kildare football knew but only the journalist that Johnston speaks to turned up?

You're running rings round yourself here.

You clearly know more than me about his relationship with the journalist in question than I do. So I'll accept you're more than likely right about that.

But I still fail to see how that is relevant to this discussion as it has no bearing on how legitimate his transfer is.

Now don't get me wrong it would make him a d**khead

Lemlin

Felexicon wrote: »

You clearly know more than me about his relationship with the journalist in question than I do. So I'll accept you're more than likely right about that.

But I still fail to see how that is relevant to this discussion as it has no bearing on how legitimate his transfer is.

Now don't get me wrong it would make him a d**khead

Well the discussion I was referring to was that Johnston has shown no respect to either Cavan or his former club by parading around with KIldare when the transfer hasn't gone through officially.

You made the point why shouldn't he be there? That's the point I've answered. You then question if Johnston courted the media as I said he did, and I've answered that.

Before the weekend I would have said that I wished him all the best in KIldare but after his display on Sunday, I hope he's a failure and that McGeeney drops him like a hot potato.

Felexicon

Lemlin wrote: »

Well the discussion I was referring to was that Johnston has shown no respect to either Cavan or his former club by parading around with KIldare when the transfer hasn't gone through officially.

You made the point why shouldn't he be there? That's the point I've answered. You then question if Johnston courted the media as I said he did, and I've answered that.

Before the weekend I would have said that I wished him all the best in KIldare but after his display on Sunday, I hope he's a failure and that McGeeney drops him like a hot potato.

But couldn't the arguement be made that Cavan showed him no respect when he was dropped for personal reasons. I'd be of the opinion that Cavan owe him alot more than he owes them

premierstone

Felexicon wrote: »

But couldn't the arguement be made that Cavan showed him no respect when he was dropped for personal reasons. I'd be of the opinion that Cavan owe him alot more than he owes them

Nail on the head Flex, they turned their back on him fairly quickly, and backed someone who the whole country knew was a chancer and a bluffer, and the CCB never bated an eyelid, but god forbid he should try and play for someone else. Seems to me he just wants to play Football, and in a time where more and more players are retiring or turning their back on the GAA because of the commitment levels required at intercounty level, I dont see how that is a bad thing, and hardly makes him the primadonna some try and paint him as.

Its not as if Kildare headhunted another intercounty player ( he was for all intents and purposes a free agent) or Seanie initiated the move himself, it was Val Andrews and Val Andrews alone who engineered the whole fiasco, take a bow Val another glorious chapter in your gliterring CV

Felexicon

premierstone wrote: »

Nail on the head Flex, they turned their back on him fairly quickly, and backed someone who the whole country knew was a chancer and a bluffer, and the CCB never bated an eyelid, but god forbid he should try and play for someone else. Seems to me he just wants to play Football, and in a time where more and more players are retiring or turning their back on the GAA because of the commitment levels required at intercounty level, I dont see how that is a bad thing, and hardly makes him the primadonna some try and paint him as.

Its not as if Kildare headhunted another intercounty player ( he was for all intents and purposes a free agent) or Seanie initiated the move himself, it was Val Andrews and Val Andrews alone who engineered the whole fiasco, take a bow Val another glorious chapter in your gliterring CV

And to think people in Meath were talking about him as a long term replacement for Banty if he had been sacked

Tom Joad

premierstone wrote: »

Nail on the head Flex, they turned their back on him fairly quickly, and backed someone who the whole country knew was a chancer and a bluffer, and the CCB never bated an eyelid, but god forbid he should try and play for someone else. Seems to me he just wants to play Football, and in a time where more and more players are retiring or turning their back on the GAA because of the commitment levels required at intercounty level, I dont see how that is a bad thing, and hardly makes him the primadonna some try and paint him as.

Its not as if Kildare headhunted another intercounty player ( he was for all intents and purposes a free agent) or Seanie initiated the move himself, it was Val Andrews and Val Andrews alone who engineered the whole fiasco, take a bow Val another glorious chapter in your gliterring CV

Think that is way over the top on Andrews, who is now gone from the county and since he has gone I don't see any of the new management team or panel starting a campaign to get him back.

As far as I am aware none of the players were too upset when Johnston left - what does that tell you??

As I have stated here before, Andrews was trying to address a fundamental problem in Cavan football around attitude and discipline and anyone who knows Cavan football will tell you this is long overdue - he seen Johnston as part of this problem and dropped him.

premierstone

Tom Joad wrote: »

Think that is way over the top on Andrews, who is now gone from the county and since he has gone I don't see any of the new management team or panel starting a campaign to get him back.

As far as I am aware none of the players were too upset when Johnston left - what does that tell you??

As I have stated here before, Andrews was trying to address a fundamental problem in Cavan football around attitude and discipline and anyone who knows Cavan football will tell you this is long overdue - he seen Johnston as part of this problem and dropped him.

I didnt see any of the players screaming and shouting for Andrews to be retained either.

I think we have done this debate to death tbh and no-one is going to change their mind at this stage we'll just have to agree to disagree, and I really do hope Hyland turns things around for Cavan and they do seem to have some very talented young players coming through, but that alone is not enough, too many counties have fallen into that trap before.

breffni666

The Anglo-Celt is a rag, the worst kind of culchie paper you can find. Never ever any criticism of the CB when they are mostly at fault for this whole mess. Backing a donkey manager to the hilt!

premierstone

breffni666 wrote: »

The Anglo-Celt is a rag, the worst kind of culchie paper you can find. Never ever any criticism of the CB when they are mostly at fault for this whole mess. Backing a donkey manager to the hilt!

That was certainly my opinion of it from any articles I have seen, impartial was something I certainly couldnt label it, but to be fair there is an element of that with all local papers

StupidLikeAFox

premierstone wrote: »

Its not as if Kildare headhunted another intercounty player ... or Seanie initiated the move himself

All thing considered we can't be 100% certain of either of those facts I get your point about its foundations in Andrews telling him to take a hike though

Lemlin

Felexicon wrote: »

But couldn't the arguement be made that Cavan showed him no respect when he was dropped for personal reasons. I'd be of the opinion that Cavan owe him alot more than he owes them

Can I ask if you've read this entire thread? I know its now 22 pages long but if there's one thing that riles me it's people wading in at the end of a thread with their opinions.

How do Cavan owe him alot more then he owes them? Do Dublin owe Bernard Brogan alot more than he owes them? Do Kerry owe the Gooch more than he owes them? No player is bigger than one team.

In 2007, Johnston disappeared off to Chicago without a care in the world before the qualifiers. Donal Keoghan said at the time that Johnston wouldn't play for him again but called him back in. A year later he talked about emigrating for the Summer and the Cavan County Board ensured he stayed. He walked out of college and straight into a job in Breffni College.

There are numerous stories I could post about Johnston's attitude in the past two years in the camp and why he was dropped but I haven't. It wasn't for personal reasons he was dropped though. If a player isn't willing to show the commitment, then he shouldn't be part of the panel, no matter how good he is. We've already gone over this numerous times on the thread though. Rather than try and win his place back on the panel though, Seanie listened to the calls of McGeeney (which Shane Supple from Dublin has also admitted he received) and sought a transfer. I didn't wish him ill for doing that. Cavan didn't want him and I agree his absence will move the team forward so I was more than happy for him to go and wished him the best.

After his display at the weekend though, before the transfer had even gone through, I changed my mind.

Lemlin

premierstone wrote: »

I didnt see any of the players screaming and shouting for Andrews to be retained either.

I think we have done this debate to death tbh and no-one is going to change their mind at this stage we'll just have to agree to disagree, and I really do hope Hyland turns things around for Cavan and they do seem to have some very talented young players coming through, but that alone is not enough, too many counties have fallen into that trap before.

Well you're not too well informed then. Padraig O'Reilly (team captain) came out and has officially said on several occasions that there was no vote and the players would have been happy to see Val stay and continue to work under him.

It appears that the County Board released false information about the vote because they wanted Val gone.

The players have said they are very angry with the county board at the way the whole thing was handled.