Association of Catholic Priests accuses media of being anti-Catholic and anti-priest.

strobe

thebullkf wrote: »

cos people keep popping outta the woodwork looking for money.

be they victims

I see.

Expending any more effort engaging in a discussion with you on this topic is beneath me.

thebullkf

Anita M. wrote: »

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Pedophile-priest-flees-back-to-Ireland-where-he-is-a-free-man-92147629.html Here i finally found one of a priest in between all the others, hard to find.

Do you always search for Sex criminals who've served their time, or just priests

thebullkf

strobe wrote: »

I see.

Expending any more effort engaging in a discussion with you on this topic is beneath me.

i see what you did there, not surprising as you've done it before.


you should be ashamed of yourself.

snafuk35

Mammanabammana wrote: »

If the priests in question had actually had the balls to disassociate themselves in public from the actions of the institution of the church they wouldn't now be feeling victimised by the media bias (perceived or otherwise). By allowing themselves to be gagged by the official stance of the church and not openly condemning any aspect of the attempted coverups and denials of the church they allowed themselves to be tacitly complicit in that denial. Accessories after the fact.

That assumes a lot and flies in the face of natural justice.

And if there truly IS an anti church bias in the media (and even if there isn't, there's unquestionably a growing anti church bias in society), they only have themselves to blame. Less than 20 years ago the church were untouchable, they had the government, media and all of society bowing and scraping before them. They are totally and utterly the authors of their own downfall.

Are you endorsing bigotry, intolerance and injustice?

Anita M.

thebullkf wrote: »

can't you read?.... no mention of child selling in that article. (which you stated)

Ah you are looking for to buy a kid? Look no further. Dutch have children for sale for international slavelabour http://childslaves.blogspot.com/
and topping that you can have any kid kidnapped with Lobe... company in Holland for 30.000 euro and they operate legally there. not giving full name for obvious reasons.

pragmatic1

Boo hoo. Fcuk em.

thebullkf

Anita M. wrote: »

Ah you are looking for to buy a kid? Look no further. Dutch have children for sale for international slavelabour http://childslaves.blogspot.com/
and topping that you can have any kid kidnapped with Lobe... company in Holland for 30.000 euro and they operate legally there. not giving full name for obvious reasons.

absolutely not, the church were accused of selling kids by a poster earlier, i was just pointing out the hysteria .

incidentally from your paper:


http://www.irishcentral.com/story/ent/manhattan_diary/spains-stolen-babies-scandal-132044333.html



i note you ignored my question

Anita M.

Hysteria? I think people would be hysterical if it happened to them. The news however is not hysterical. Those victims were angry. Is the news then angry?
To answer your question, no I was just looking for father Ted episode like everyone else.

strobe

thebullkf wrote: »

i see what you did there, not surprising as you've done it before.


you should be ashamed of yourself.

Cad é?

Dudess

I can't think of a prevalent pattern of media attacks on Catholics - seems some people confuse that with reporting/voicing opinion on what's wrong with the church.
If I saw a staunch pattern, as claimed, I wouldn't like it - I'm not a fan of sectarianism.

Dudess

KeithAFC wrote: »

Dudess wrote: »

Sectarian Protestants must have been rubbing their hands with glee when the revelations came to the fore.

I don't think Protestants think like that.

Of course the vast majority don't.

Mammanabammana

snafuk35 wrote: »

That assumes a lot and flies in the face of natural justice.

Perhaps it assumes that they didn’t speak out against the coverups because they were told not to – the alternative is that they chose to say nothing. It doesn’t change the fact that not one of them publicly stated their opposition to the official policy of denial. I’m open to correction here if you can refer me to an official statement on behalf either of a parish or on an individual basis by any priest who openly and publicly condemned the Vatican’s policy of covering up the systematic rape and destruction of children. I’m not aware of any such statement; please enlighten me if I’m misinformed.

snafuk35 wrote: »

Are you endorsing bigotry, intolerance and injustice?

Where exactly do you see anything in my statement that endorses anything of the sort?

stimpson

thebullkf wrote: »

can't you read?.... no mention of child selling in that article. (which you stated)

Here's one for you. The clue is in the title - The Catholic church sold my child

no mention of Torture in that article (albeit working for free is)- though that could be construed as doing their bit for bed and board, and i am in no way defending it.

They were being investigated by the UN Committee Against Torture. Would it be easier if I drew you a picture?

Hindsight is wonderful. wasn't so long ago that husbands raped their wives-legally and nothing done about it-

And why aren't the "parents" of these kids being lambasted?

cos they're either dead or broke, and pay back is sought, if the church were poor then they wouldn't be in news half/third as much.

You mean the poor girls who were kept in these labour camps without their consent? many of whom are still in care? I think it's called compassion. Look it up in a dictionary.

People baying for churches blood have short memories, a significant minority committed these atrocities, yet many are tarnished.

the work they do far outweighs the evils committed.

Oh I see. Is that how it works? We raped, tortured and sold children for God and Profit, and it was covered up by the most powerful people in the organisation but it's OK your honour - we did some nice things too. And anyway, we went to confession so God says its fine.

you know this.

You think?

Ray Palmer

THe funny one I saw recently was where the Anti Catholic Deformation League came out against the guy who has said Padre Pio used acid to fake wounds. One of their comments was basically the church is infallable when it comes to who they canonise so he can't say anything.

Absolutely stupid. We made up a rule to say that when we say something it can't be wrong so nobody can say it is wrong. I really laughed when I read it.

Considering the churches stance on science over time how they claim bias is funny. When they were in control of media they effectively lied as opposed to selectively tell news. If anything the media selectively choose stories that are sensational the church happens to be involved.

the culture of deference

thebullkf wrote: »

cos people keep popping outta the woodwork looking for money.

be they victims,lawyers,editors etc.

I know it must be terrible for you.

I want to call you a retarded troll but I think thats an understatement.



What goes on in the head of people that were raped and abused for years, what could possibly stop them coming forward the 1st chance they get.

Surely they would want everyone to know what humiliation was done to them repeatedly.

mod: poster banned.

the culture of deference

Ray Palmer wrote: »

THe funny one I saw recently was where the Anti Catholic Deformation League came out against the guy who has said Padre Pio used acid to fake wounds. One of their comments was basically the church is infallable when it comes to who they canonise so he can't say anything.

Absolutely stupid. We made up a rule to say that when we say something it can't be wrong so nobody can say it is wrong. I really laughed when I read it.

Considering the churches stance on science over time how they claim bias is funny. When they were in control of media they effectively lied as opposed to selectively tell news. If anything the media selectively choose stories that are sensational the church happens to be involved.

From boston legal

Many of the Church's doctrines have nothing to do with divine law.

Priests were not required to be celibate until 1139, before which they
were allowed to have families, some of them quite large.

Celibacy was a function of economic pragmatism not divine law.

We teach that men and women are equal.
But they have different roles that are divinely bestowed. This is an authoritarian teaching called complementarity.

We don't modify doctrine to comply with opinion polls.

The Church once defended slavery as willed by God. You modified that doctrine. Then there was the persecution of witches. You know, with the big rocks. In a stage whisper. Torture. And! Let's not forget the crimes of The Inquisition.

All of those were Catholic Church doctrines adjusted according to popular opinion. And let's not forget that you once condemned homosexuality as an intrinsic and moral evil. But wait! That one still stands!

Your Honor, the plaintiff is asking you to invalidate Church law on the grounds that it's unreasonable. This is religion for God's sake! We don't hold religion and faith up to standards of reasonableness.

Does it really make sense that God got mad at the human race, and drowned them all, including children and all the animals except two of each which survived on a big boat? Do Christians literally believe the earth was made in seven days? Religion, some of it, is out there, but we all have the right to believe

McTigs

thebullkf wrote: »

12 x times the amount of clergy are proven abusers.....yet its church church church...

i don't see 12 x times the coverage, do you?

So only one abuser in 12 is clergy, but considering the fact that only about one person in 5,000 is clergy that's a pretty disproptionate amount of abuse coming from the clergy wouldn't you think?

Also the church have set themselves up as the moral guardians and moral voice and have shown unprecedented hypocracy in this regard.

Guess that's what makes it so newsworthy.

We can only hope this the beginning of the end for the catholic church as we know it. It needs to crumble and be built agian from the ground up, hopefully next time with some actual principles.

McTigs

yutta wrote: »

And yes, I could smell a mile away that you don't go to Mass - the most opinionated bigots are usually that way.

This is the a perfect illustration of "circular reference" i have ever seen. Bravo!

thebullkf

McTigs wrote: »

So only one abuser in 12 is clergy, but considering the fact that only about one person in 5,000 is clergy that's a pretty disproptionate amount of abuse coming from the clergy wouldn't you think?

ok let me put it another way, 92% of abusers are Not clergy.

Also the church have set themselves up as the moral guardians and moral voice and have shown unprecedented hypocracy in this regard.

true.

Guess that's what makes it so newsworthy.

i don't believe its just that.

We can only hope this the beginning of the end for the catholic church as we know it. It needs to crumble and be built agian from the ground up, hopefully next time with some actual principles.

agreed (with most of it:)

thebullkf

stimpson wrote: »

Here's one for you. The clue is in the title - The Catholic church sold my child

one- which i didn't even bother to read tbh. EDIT- Read it. Adoption=Money towards church and possible better life for child(i don't agree with it btw) but also don't see it as being completely B&W as Child Selling, and to say they raped for god and profit is just reprehensible thanks for the link though.

They were being investigated by the UN Committee Against Torture. Would it be easier if I drew you a picture?

do you have proof they tortured children?

You mean the poor girls who were kept in these labour camps without their consent? many of whom are still in care? I think it's called compassion. Look it up in a dictionary.

Oh I see. Is that how it works? We raped, tortured and sold children for God and Profit, and it was covered up by the most powerful people in the organisation but it's OK your honour - we did some nice things too. And anyway, we went to confession so God says its fine.

thats a skewed logic you inferred from my post. not what i meant at all.

your hatred of the catholic church is evident.

thebullkf

the culture of deference wrote: »

I know it must be terrible for you.

I want to call you a retarded troll but I think thats an understatement.



What goes on in the head of people that were raped and abused for years, what could possibly stop them coming forward the 1st chance they get.

Surely they would want everyone to know what humiliation was done to them repeatedly.

and as for you. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

if i was catholic i'd forgive you.

but i'm not.

so i've reported you.;)

44leto

They have a right to defend their position and object to unfair treatment. Some of the clergy were abusers but the very vast majority were not.

The media does taint the whole church with the same brush, besides it was those in the higher hierarchy in CChurch to blame for the cover ups, not the individual priests.

Mike 1972

44leto wrote: »

They have a right to defend their position and object to unfair treatment. Some of the clergy were abusers but the very vast majority were not.

Way to miss the point.

All of the clergy were/are part of an organization which had right up to its highest levels a policy of facilitating and protecting the abusers while attempting to intimidate and silence the abused. Despite this becoming increasingly clear in recent years the overwhelming majority of the clergy remain part of this organisation.

Anita M. wrote: »

Ah you are looking for to buy a kid? Look no further. Dutch have children for sale for international slavelabour http://childslaves.blogspot.com/.....

?

44leto

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Way to miss the point.

All of the clergy were/are part of an organization which had right up to its highest levels a policy of facilitating and protecting the abusers while attempting to intimidate and silence the abused. Despite this becoming increasingly clear in recent years the overwhelming majority of the clergy remain part of this organisation.

?

They remain part of an organisation of their faith, some answered a "calling" a small minority were perverts. I don't believe all of them were culpable. I know some priests and no-way are they guilty of anything.

McTigs

thebullkf wrote: »

ok let me put it another way, 92% of abusers are Not clergy.

The point remains the same, if only 1 person in 5000 is clergy then 99.98% of abusers should be NOT Clergy... the 8% (your figure) of abusers that are clergy is way out of proportion with the rest of society.

about 400 times out of proportion in fact.

stimpson

thebullkf wrote: »

one- which i didn't even bother to read tbh. EDIT- Read it. Adoption=Money towards church and possible better life for child(i don't agree with it btw) but also don't see it as being completely B&W as Child Selling, and to say they raped for god and profit is just reprehensible thanks for the link though.

Do you think respectable adoption agencies charge commission? And the baby selling bit was for profit. I'm sure some of the other things were done for the glory of god. Do some research and see how well off the Magdalene sisters are.

do you have proof they tortured children?

Ok. I'll give you one more.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0927/1224304801025.html

Now you can do the rest of your homework yourself. I'd advise you starting with some light reading. The Ryan report perhaps.

thats a skewed logic you inferred from my post. not what i meant at all.

You said their good works outweigh their bad. Perhaps you can explain. How many poor do you need to feed per raped child?

your hatred of the catholic church is evident.

And I thought I was being subtle :rolleyes:

Anita M.

I found one in a newspaper, not about priests!

Now defunct magazine Scallywag covered events at Bryn Alyn in detail, some years ago.

The magazine alleged that one of the men referred to is Lord McAlpine, at the time of the offences treasurer of the governing Conservative Party. Another regular participant in the activities at Bryn Clwyd was alleged by Scallywag to be Derek Laud, for years a leading mover and shaker in successive Conservative administrations.

Scallywag alleged that Laud was a sadist, who was particularly violent and without mercy in his treatment of the boys. The magazine alleged that on regular occasions his victims would end up in casualty wards. He was a leading political fixer and adviser to Margaret Thatcher although never an MP, indeed he was pictured waving down to the crowds below from an upstairs window of 10 Downing Street as the Conservatives celebrated their 1988 election victory.

The former children connected with this empire of evil who died in mysterious circumstances may have been murdered by the British security services, the price of their silence their lives. Scallywag alleged that MI5 used to take foreign diplomats etc to the North Wales homes, give them boys to “play” with, secretly filmed them as they buggered, abused and tortured boys then kept the tapes as evidence.

From the Scallywag website:

Michael Brown is one of the very few Conservative MP’s who volunteered to “out” himself as gay. Derek Laud, now standing for parliament, (against Bernie Grant in North London) ran a Pimlico PR agency called Ludgate Communications for a number of years which supplied young boys for selected parliamentarians from children’s homes now being investigated in North Wales. He sometimes did this in cahoots with Ian Greer Associates which has since been scandalised because of the Neil Hamilton Affair and payment for questions on behalf of Al Fayed.

Ludgate Communications was at the very hub of our investigation into the “boys for questions” allegations. At his Pimlico flat, and selected addresses in Dolphin Square nearby, Laud threw paedophile parties and we have one sworn affidavit from a former boy (presently giving evidence in Wales) who claims he was seriously molested (among many others) by Lord McAlpine who was at the time the Tory party’s clandestine fund raiser. It was alleged by this boy and others that Messrs Portillo and Lilley were also guests of Derek Laud. We are assured that this particular volcano is about to erupt, both in North Wales and elsewhere. Michael Portillo has always publicly disassociated himself from Derek Laud, yet here we find him not only acquainted but seemingly in the inner sanctum of private friends.

o yeah it is in England.

Anita M.

Children get systematically abused, everybody looks away.
Years later the abused manage to make people look.
The press suddenly jumps on the abused of the past, thereby taking all eyes of the present situation.
Promises are made, nothing is done.
All eyes are averted and systematic abuse is now only associated with the past tense.
The former abused feel abused twice and get extremely frustrated.
All eyes are averted as promises were made.
The present abuse continues and is fueled by the knowledge that
All eyes are averted.
Nothing is done.

Ray Palmer

the culture of deference wrote: »

From boston legal

Many of the Church's doctrines have nothing to do with divine law.

Priests were not required to be celibate until 1139, before which they
were allowed to have families, some of them quite large.

Celibacy was a function of economic pragmatism not divine law.

We teach that men and women are equal.
But they have different roles that are divinely bestowed. This is an authoritarian teaching called complementarity.

We don't modify doctrine to comply with opinion polls.

The Church once defended slavery as willed by God. You modified that doctrine. Then there was the persecution of witches. You know, with the big rocks. In a stage whisper. Torture. And! Let's not forget the crimes of The Inquisition.

All of those were Catholic Church doctrines adjusted according to popular opinion. And let's not forget that you once condemned homosexuality as an intrinsic and moral evil. But wait! That one still stands!

Your Honor, the plaintiff is asking you to invalidate Church law on the grounds that it's unreasonable. This is religion for God's sake! We don't hold religion and faith up to standards of reasonableness.

Does it really make sense that God got mad at the human race, and drowned them all, including children and all the animals except two of each which survived on a big boat? Do Christians literally believe the earth was made in seven days? Religion, some of it, is out there, but we all have the right to believe

I think you are missing the point about what was said recently and still applies. Pope is infalliable on certain subjects to this day, that includes the canonisation of saints. So a group have come out and claimed a guy shouldn't question what appears to a long hoax becasue the church gave him sainthood. This is the defence by an orgaisation trying to stop people giving out about the church. Plain stupid.

Don't foreget the last pope was also sainted and as one of the "rules" miracles have to be attributed to the person. One of the miricles was he cured cancer in some woman, her husband came out and pointed out she never had cancer, yet that was one of the two "miracles" used in the sainting process.

Doctorine has changed but the churches bias power over what was media coverage then is apparent. They certianly are crying fowl for something they did for much longer and made up versus facts that aren't made up. Yes some stories have been proved to be incorrect but that is always going to happen

Dudess

I'd still like to see more examples of this apparent widespread anti catholic bias in the media (and that doesn't include justified criticism of what's wrong with the church). Fr. Kevin Reynolds, yes (no doubt will be milked to death by those with an agenda) and that is atrocious, but RTE is being rightly reprimanded - what else? It's being claimed the bias is widespread.