Cabinet to scrap all grants for postgrad courses.

Raphael

Yeah, Brendan Howlin just got to that part of the speech. Mentioned something about helping pay postgrad fees, but that's not gonna be that great for most people.

Musefan

From http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2012/Documents/CER%20-%20Estimates%20Final%20Part%202.pdf

ƒ Amend grants system for post-graduate studies by paying fees only (no
maintenance grant) for special rate students, and providing a €2,000
fee contribution grant to a further 4,000 students. Measures apply to
new entrants only, from 2012. Existing grant-holders will be unaffected

sambuka41

Musefan wrote: »

႒ Amend grants system for post-graduate studies by paying fees only (no
maintenance grant) for special rate students, and providing a €2,000
fee contribution grant to a further 4,000 students. Measures apply to
new entrants only, from 2012. Existing grant-holders will be unaffected

I wonder what this will cover? I imagine they mean from certain Income bands? But wasn't it means tested already, how low will it go? Its a miserable savings 12 million, if they grew a pair and means tested children's allowance they'd save far more. Its hard to take these kind of cuts when there is waste elsewhere (dont get me started on the €34,000 Enda gave his mate,how many grants would that pay?)

JerryHandbag

sambuka41 wrote: »

I wonder what this will cover? I imagine they mean from certain Income bands?

Yeah I'm guessing it's the people who were on the top up rate of grant for their degrees. Not sure what percentage of actual students that would consist of.

Hoping to do a postgrad myself in next year or 2, had already braced myself for this news today, so my "rainy day" savings will have to be used (and significantly topped up) if its going to be remotely financially possible for me to take my education to a higher level.

Just wondering if this news will drastically reduce the number of people applying for postgrads? To the point where some courses may actually have difficulty getting the required numbers?

VALIS

My understanding is that special rate students get full fees paid and everyone else normally entitled to the grant will only get a 2000 euro contribution--with no postgraduate student getting the financial supplement of the actual maintenance grant.

I have no doubt this will affect the uptake of postgraduate courses by Irish students, and I see a lot more students emigrating to do postgraduate courses abroad where they can live more cheaply and pay lower fees or attend colleges of even better repute, and they'd be smart to do so.

I don't know how much this will effect demand of postgraduate courses though to the point of being a genuine existential threat to graduate schools; international student uptake of Irish postgrad courses is quite good I find from experience.

Tupamaros

Existing grant holders unaffected? Does that mean the grant will remain for me, if I'm moving from a masters to a PhD next September? If not, could be emigration time.

sambuka41

Tupamaros wrote: »

Existing grant holders unaffected? Does that mean the grant will remain for me, if I'm moving from a masters to a PhD next September? If not, could be emigration time.

Your grant is for your masters, so it'll prob be safe for the duration of that course of study but not for the PHD. I could be wrong though.

VALIS

sambuka41 wrote: »

Your grant is for your masters, so it'll prob be safe for the duration of that course of study but not for the PHD. I could be wrong though.

This is my understanding too. If you get private funding for your PHD it can sometimes be generous though. But yeah, doing it abroad may be preferable.

sambuka41

Going abroad is making the most sense at the moment. The PHD I wanted to do is €12,800 a year (3 years full time) the equivalent in London is under €7,000.

Why are our universities so much more expensive? Maybe if the government looked at that, then people wouldn't need grants if the courses were more affordable.

Dannyg90

so does this mean that for low wage family's the government will pay their masters fees but they won't pay them anything to live on?

markg86

Amend grants system for post-graduate studies by paying fees only (no
maintenance grant) for special rate students, and providing a €2,000
fee contribution grant to a further 4,000 students. Measures apply to
new entrants only, from 2012. Existing grant-holders will be unaffected.

Slang_Tang

JerryHandbag wrote: »

Just wondering if this news will drastically reduce the number of people applying for postgrads? To the point where some courses may actually have difficulty getting the required numbers?

I think there will be a noticeable drop in demand for postgraduates this year.

Larkenn

Slang_Tang wrote: »

I think there will be a noticeable drop in demand for postgraduates this year.

Well I'm one of those now not doing a postgrad. My dole payments simply won't stretch to saving up for a postgrad.

daithimacgroin

is the funding for this

"The Graduate Skills Conversion Programme (GSCP) is a joint initiative with the Department of Education and Science and the Higher Education Authority, in response to the Information and Communications Technology (ICT) skills needs, identified by the Expert Group on Future Skills Needs and the mid-term evaluation of the ATS programme. It is funded under the National Development Plan.

The aim of the programme is to provide graduates with the opportunity to acquire qualifications for employment in the ICT area. A composite fee applies to all courses under the programme. For 2011-12 the fee is €2,750."

still gonna be funded?????

If these ICT type course continue to get their finding, then I predict a fall in interest in non-ICT masters that all cost at least 5 grand to these funded ones....

Especially considering there does seem to be 2000 euros(from the budget 2012) available to anyone who'll qualify for a grant.

daithimacgroin

dole payments can't stretch?
i bet if you were on both rent allowance and dole, and did a few nixers, u could easily save up enough to do a postgrad, to at least cover your living costs for one year.Plus anyone on the dole for 9 months qualifies for the BTEA for a higher diploma, though not a masters.

Your other option would be go abroad and save up the money there then come back, which is what i'm doing

Musefan

I will thankfully qualify to have my postgrad fees covered next year because of the special rate of grant. I would tell individuals not to give up hope though. Anything can happen between now and next September.

a123

daithimacgroin wrote: »

is the funding for this

"The Graduate Skills Conversion Programme (GSCP) is a joint initiative with the Department of Education and Science and the Higher Education Authority, in response to the Information and Communications Technology (ICT) skills needs, identified by the Expert Group on Future Skills Needs and the mid-term evaluation of the ATS programme. It is funded under the National Development Plan.

The aim of the programme is to provide graduates with the opportunity to acquire qualifications for employment in the ICT area. A composite fee applies to all courses under the programme. For 2011-12 the fee is €2,750."

still gonna be funded?????

If these ICT type course continue to get their finding, then I predict a fall in interest in non-ICT masters that all cost at least 5 grand to these funded ones....

Especially considering there does seem to be 2000 euros(from the budget 2012) available to anyone who'll qualify for a grant.

Am currently doing one of these courses; it is €2,750 per year. The low fee was one of the main reasons I chose this course (other than an interest in ICT!). When I started the funding was to be in place until 2013, I hope it still is.

Il Trap

I'll be going into the third year of a PhD (4 years) in September.

I (25) applied for a grant as an independent mature candidate during the summer. Was never in receipt of a grant before that, nor had I ever applied for one (I had been living at home and parents incomes were above threshold.

I was turned down because I graduated from a Masters degree in 2009 and it had not been three years since my last graduation, as such. (None of this was outlined in the guidance notes where all other essential information is outlined, but was briefly referred to midst the small print of the terms and conditions).

This year I would have been eligible for a grant but I'm not sure after the Budget announcement. It says that new entrants will be excluded from maintainance grant, fees paid etc but does that include people such as myself who are already midway through a course but no already in receipt of a grant.

I'm tearing my hair out over this as I was really going to be relying on some sort of assistance next year! :mad:

Anybody able to shed any light. T'would be appreciated!

augusta24

Il Trap wrote: »

I'll be going into the third year of a PhD (4 years) in September.

I (25) applied for a grant as an independent mature candidate during the summer. Was never in receipt of a grant before that, nor had I ever applied for one (I had been living at home and parents incomes were above threshold.

I was turned down because I graduated from a Masters degree in 2009 and it had not been three years since my last graduation, as such. (None of this was outlined in the guidance notes where all other essential information is outlined, but was briefly referred to midst the small print of the terms and conditions).

This year I would have been eligible for a grant but I'm not sure after the Budget announcement. It says that new entrants will be excluded from maintainance grant, fees paid etc but does that include people such as myself who are already midway through a course but no already in receipt of a grant.

I'm tearing my hair out over this as I was really going to be relying on some sort of assistance next year! :mad:

Anybody able to shed any light. T'would be appreciated!

You're best bet is to try get in touch with your co co or local td or something... To be honest I'm not entirely sure if you would have got the grant anyway as the way I understood it was that you wouldn't b able to get it halfway through because you still started less than three years after your masters

token56

Can someone clarify something for me, I'm asking on behalf of my girlfriend.

She did a master last, graduated in September and was looking to go back and do a PhD starting next year. During the masters she qualified for the maintenance grant and had her fees paid fully. Now as I understand she would no longer get the maintenance grant but I'm not sure how the cuts effect fees, would her fees also no longer be paid? Or will she still be able to get the fees covered by her CC.

Thanks in advance.

Slang_Tang

token56 wrote: »

Can someone clarify something for me, I'm asking on behalf of my girlfriend.

She did a master last, graduated in September and was looking to go back and do a PhD starting next year. During the masters she qualified for the maintenance grant and had her fees paid fully. Now as I understand she would no longer get the maintenance grant but I'm not sure how the cuts effect fees, would her fees also no longer be paid? Or will she still be able to get the fees covered by her CC.

Thanks in advance.

I think we'll have to wait a bit for official clarity.

For a Master's, students from low-income families will have their fees paid. I assume this means people who were eligible for the "top-up grant". All others will have €2,000 paid towards their fees.

Although I'm not sure if this will apply to PhD students.

fortywinks86

Anyone know if registration fees would be paid as well as the grant for 2000 say? If not then the amount doesn't even cover reg fees.

VALIS

fortywinks86 wrote: »

Anyone know if registration fees would be paid as well as the grant for 2000 say? If not then the amount doesn't even cover reg fees.

There is no grant; 2000 euro is contributed towards course fees and that is the full extent of assistance as announced so far unless you have special-rate entitlement in which case you get full fees paid.

bazzare

i would appreciate if anybody could confirm where i stand here, im in my final year as an undergrad, i had intended to go on an do a masters but given the announcement yesterday i doubt that i will be able to

I am currently in receipt of BTEA, does anybody know if i would still be entitled to claim it if i went on to do a postgrad Hdip , could I continue to claim BTEA, or has this option also been scrapped

FzDIT

Please some one tell me who is special rate student, I am an independent mature student in the final year of my course and in receive of BETA since I started my course! could you please advise me if my full post-graduate fee will cover next September?

Larkenn

daithimacgroin wrote: »

dole payments can't stretch?
i bet if you were on both rent allowance and dole, and did a few nixers, u could easily save up enough to do a postgrad, to at least cover your living costs for one year.Plus anyone on the dole for 9 months qualifies for the BTEA for a higher diploma, though not a masters.

Your other option would be go abroad and save up the money there then come back, which is what i'm doing

I'm not claiming rent allowance, I'm living at home with my parents because I can't afford to move out. Do nixers in what? I dont have a trade. I'm living on the basic JSA which is €188. I have medical expenses coming out my ears while I wait for my medical card to finish its trip around the HSE offices. I'm already putting off dental work, which isn't covered by the medical card. My parents are as broke as I am and cant afford to offer financial support to me. I cant go abroad to work because of the above mentioned medical issues, which need sorting.

Basically there is no way on €188 a week that I can save €4-6k and another €10k to maintain myself next year. My dole for the whole year wont come to that and that excludes living expenses this year.

I cant claim BTEA because I already used my entitlement on my degree course hence why I wanted to do a conversion postgrad.

Ok rant over

JerryHandbag

bazzare wrote: »

i would appreciate if anybody could confirm where i stand here, im in my final year as an undergrad, i had intended to go on an do a masters but given the announcement yesterday i doubt that i will be able to

I am currently in receipt of BTEA, does anybody know if i would still be entitled to claim it if i went on to do a postgrad Hdip , could I continue to claim BTEA, or has this option also been scrapped

I didnt see anything about the BTEA being scrapped for Hdips, just the grant. So you may be ok, but double check as I'm not 100% sure! The annual cost of education allowance has been reduced alright from 500 to 300 euro but I'm not aware of any other changes.

FzDIT

I am getting JA and my total income last year was (€188 * 52weeks) € 9776 plus rent allowance of €232 per month, therefore my total income last year was€12560 , I am mature independent student , I am wondering if the full fees for a master will be paid next september(new grant applicant) Or I only get €2000 ??

I greatly appreciate If you could get me some correct information.

VALIS

FzDIT wrote: »

I am getting JA and my total income last year was (€188 * 52weeks) € 9776 plus rent allowance of €232 per month, therefore my total income last year was€12560 , I am mature independent student , I am wondering if the full fees for a master will be paid next september(new grant applicant) Or I only get €2000 ??

I greatly appreciate If you could get me some correct information.

At a glance it looks like you fall under special-rate and will be entitled to full fees paid. Discuss it with your local grant authority when the smoke has cleared, but you should be in luck.

Just be aware also of other restrictions; for instance I believe there might have to be a passage of a few years between undergrad and postgrad for mature independents. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Calleja

Slang_Tang wrote: »

For a Master's, students from low-income families will have their fees paid. I assume this means people who were eligible for the "top-up grant". All others will have €2,000 paid towards their fees.

Although I'm not sure if this will apply to PhD students.

I'm also trying to figure this out, I think PhD students will have to pay all of the fee, in my case this would be 5200 euro a year which I don't have