Cabinet to scrap all grants for postgrad courses.

Slang_Tang

kob29 wrote: »

I agree that posting here will do little to fight the battle. In your colleges you need to post up the email addresses of all the local relevant TD's and bombard them. Voting rates have been so low amongst young people for so long politicians don't rate your interest in politics or will to fight.

Agreed. Everyone, if you disagree with this, please contact TDs. It's no good just voicing our frustration here. There must be a financially viable alternative to cutting all postgrad funding completely.

http://contact.ie/contact

Especially contact Labour TDs who are already nervous about education cuts. It's easy to send messages via that website.

Stop me now

just goes to show that this government is clueless, instead of trying to get us out of this mess they engage in a slash and burn exercise.

Not only are the rich and privileged the only ones that will be able to avail of post grad education in the future but that the number and quality of these post grad courses will be greatly reduced .....

timeforachange

This is awful. I'm so angry!

I'm just trying to get my head around what this will mean for me if it goes ahead... not exactly sure I've I'm reading it correctly.... am I right in assuming if you are in a postgrad at the moment receiving a grant, you will continue to get your grant next year as its only new applicants that won't get it? Or will mine be cut next year too even though it will be my second year of my postgrad??
Maybe I'm just clinging at straws taking that meaning out of it...

Annasopra

folks - don't send emails - TDs get hundreds of email - they are more likely to respond to personal letters and visits to their clinics

send letters and visit your TDs clinics - also the USI rally for undergrad fees is on next Wednesday - make banners for that regarding postgrad grants

This is outrageous and you need to let the government know that by visiting the clinics of TDs and writing to your TDs and also supporting the USI Rally on Wednesday

Annasopra

timeforachange wrote: »

This is awful. I'm so angry!

I'm just trying to get my head around what this will mean for me if it goes ahead... not exactly sure I've I'm reading it correctly.... am I right in assuming if you are in a postgrad at the moment receiving a grant, you will continue to get your grant next year as its only new applicants that won't get it? Or will mine be cut next year too even though it will be my second year of my postgrad??
Maybe I'm just clinging at straws taking that meaning out of it...

yes that seems to be the suggestion - existing grant holders would hold on and new applicants would get nothing but this is only a proposal at the moment.

shortie111

It seems nowadays that a degree is only a stepping stone in education and a postgrad course is necessary in order to get a job. As if high grades weren't hard enough to earn in order to qualify for a postgrad, but these costs just make it so much harder for every student. It's extremely sad for those who genuinely want to work hard for not only themselves, but for the better of this country.
Education is alot of people's only hope at the minute as for the lack of jobs available but even education is being taken away from us. It's just one thing after the next with this country. With everyday cuts like these, it's really no wonder that we're in such a crisis.

OneOfTheseDays

It seems that the only thing that will have any effectiveness in changing this is to see numbers on the streets.
While it is noble to write to TDs and attend clinics, the current government is not even into the first year of its five years. Considering the notable majority they hold in the Dail it seems unrealistic that lobbying will have any real impact.
Wednesday's march is for all students!

The Scientician

How does it save €50,000,000 when you have a less skilled/educated workforce who can't get jobs that pay in huge amounts in taxes? It seems very shortsighted a maneuver.

Annasopra

OneOfTheseDays wrote: »

It seems that the only thing that will have any effectiveness in changing this is to see numbers on the streets.
While it is noble to write to TDs and attend clinics, the current government is not even into the first year of its five years. Considering the notable majority they hold in the Dail it seems unrealistic that lobbying will have any real impact.
Wednesday's march is for all students!

The best approach is not one or the other but both.

daithimacgroin

Does anyone know if this will effect the Graduate Skills Conversion Programme (GSCP) funded masters programs???? The 2750euro ones...

I'm pretty screwed if it does.

also I can't for the life of me see how they can keep BTEA going but get rid of postgraduate maintenance grants??
I know BTEA is only up to hdip, but getting rid of grants creates an incentive for recently graduated students to go fulltime on the dole for a year in order to qualify for a BTEA funded hdip.

metal chemist

avalon68 wrote: »

metal chemist wrote: »

I'm a final year PhD student and my research is in metal based anti-cancer drugs. The other day I recieved great news regarding the activity of my compounds and another paper is currently in preparation.

I've appeared in numerous publications, represented my university on a national level and won 7 different awards during my PhD. I've gone abroad proudly representing my country and university at huge academic conferences.

My PhD was funded by the maintenance grant system and none of this would have been possible without that funding. Removing access to that funding is complete non-sense and a disgrace to disadvantaged students who have the ability to literally change the world with their research.

Every year I get approved for my grant I personally thank all the staff in the office, I never would have had this amazing opartunity without it!

I will be protesting this complete farce in the coming weeks and I hope people will join me

Wre you not also in receipt of a stipend from sfi/ircset etc? I fail to see how a maintenance grant would pay for any scientific research given the cost of reagents. It certainly wouldnt pay for conferences - there are travel grants available to cover that as part of all sfi/ircset/whatever relevant body.

No I did not receive any SFI, iRcset or other funding. In my first year I got a student who was doing a project with me as her demonstrator. Her funding came with €300 for materials which I bought for her project and used the remaining for my PhD. I also do my reactions on a milligram scale to save money, it's a pain! But it's the only way!

As for Irish confrences my supervisor drove me and abroad I was sponsored to go!

I managed to do a PhD on a grant, barely... I had 6 part-time jobs over the years too. I've never had a weekend off!

starlit

It be a shame if they did that especially for postgrad courses. They are expensive enough as they are.

banquo

The USI protest is against all cuts to the grant and any hikes in fees - for anyone.

millivanilli

http://tellyourtd.com/

email your td and see what they have to say. i know the country is fecked but how can they just have a blanket removal of all supports for postgrad studies? as other posters have said, this will mean that only the privileged few will have access to further education while the rest of us emigrate or go on the dole.

i'm in my final year of an undergrad degree, like most people have taken a 60% cut in my grant this year, i have a 5 month old baby and am working part time in a job where my hours have been cut as well. a postgrad was my next step. if this cut goes through i'll more than likely end up on part time dole as there are no jobs and i can't emigrate. this will cost the government way more. it makes no sense at all

nothing

Aside from the issues raised with this by other posters, I'll tell you my personal issues.

I graduated from my undergrad in 2010. The government had changed the rules for changing status from non-mature, dependent to any other status for postgrad, that you had to take a 3 year gap from full-time education.

2 years into this gap (for me anyways...), they decide that actually they're just going to scrap the whole grant for postgrads. For anyone in this gap, which I think was brought into force in 2009 (open to be corrected there), they now have no hope of getting a grant at all, regardless of their position.

For me personally, I've taken up a 2 year part-time course, which I'm trying to fund myself, and was relying on the fact that I'd get the grant in a few years when I planned to start a PhD to keep me from struggling with loan repayments.

As far as working as a student goes, I'm lucky that I have some work, but it's short contract work, so after February I have no idea if I'll have any. I know a lot of students who can't find jobs because they aren't qualified or don't have the experience, and there are much fewer companies taking on students for experience these days.

bazzare

so whats happening with this ?

is it going ahead or is it just a proposal ??

Annasopra

bazzare wrote: »

so whats happening with this ?

is it going ahead or is it just a proposal ??

It's a proposal

It's likely in my opinion that they will be cut but not scrapped

We will know more in about 2 weeks when they publish the budget

Slang_Tang

I wrote letters to all Labour TDs. Very few of them got back to me.

I got a letter from the Department of Education saying that, at present, it was just a proposal and the Minister is considering all options.

I have some friends in Labour grassroots and they say that the most likely scenario is all postgrad funding will be scrapped and a loans system similar to the UK will be introduced (that is, you start paying it back when you start earning a certain amount). But there have been meetings of unhappy Labour backbenchers, so we'll see how it goes.

Fingers crossed, everyone.

daffodil14

mango salsa wrote: »

It's a proposal

It's likely in my opinion that they will be cut but not scrapped

We will know more in about 2 weeks when they publish the budget

I agree that it'll probably be cut not scrapped, its probably a tactic so that it 'wont seem so bad' from what originally was proposed etc

Slang_Tang

I hate to add to the rumour mill, but a Labour T.D. rang me the other day in response to a letter I sent.

His general message was to encourage me to go ahead with my Master's, even though I'd be receiving no support.

He said 80% of the Dept. of Education's budget can't be touched under the Croke Park Agreement, that the USI doesn't care about postgrads (he has a point), and that postgrads will take the brunt of Dept. of Education's cuts.

Worryingly, he said there would be no government loans systems. All they'll be doing is putting pressure on banks to lend to students (ha! because banks have always listened).

It's not looking good at all. I'm devastated. I've been saving to do a Master's for two years. I just can't afford the fees, and I won't qualify for a bank loan. I have no options.

WesternNight

Slang_Tang wrote: »

I hate to add to the rumour mill, but a Labour T.D. rang me the other day in response to a letter I sent.

His general message was to encourage me to go ahead with my Master's, even though I'd be receiving no support.

He said 80% of the Dept. of Education's budget can't be touched under the Croke Park Agreement, that the USI doesn't care about postgrads (he has a point), and that postgrads will take the brunt of Dept. of Education's cuts.

Worryingly, he said there would be no government loans systems. All they'll be doing is putting pressure on banks to lend to students (ha! because banks have always listened).

It's not looking good at all. I'm devastated. I've been saving to do a Master's for two years. I just can't afford the fees, and I won't qualify for a bank loan. I have no options.

:mad::mad::(

Not happy if that's the case. Not happy at all at all

sambuka41

Slang_Tang wrote: »

His general message was to encourage me to go ahead with my Master's, even though I'd be receiving no support.

Thats nice of him, wasn't it :rolleyes::rolleyes: Yeah Mr. Politician I'll just ignore all my financial responsibilities and do what I like, oh no wait thats just you who can do that. :mad::mad: What an insulting thing to say to someone who is explaining to them why they CANT do that.

This is what enrages me about the whole thing, they want their smart economy so that they look great for Europe, get their investments from Multinationals; they just want us regular Joe's to be the one to do it for them.

WesternNight

Got a reply from my local Labour TD just now. He reckons that no decisions have been made, but that whatever decision are taken will be in the best interest of students (I call shenanigans on both of those claims, but we'll see).

Basically he answered none of my questions and is playing the "'tis the harsh times we live in" card to cover himself when the above proves untrue.

dambarude

Apparently it's in tomorrow's SBP that the undergrad registration fee will only go up by €250, which is less than had been touted. The USI have been making a lot of noise about it.

I don't know what that might mean for postgrads. TBH there's been very little talk of this move against postgrad grants, so it could get slipped through.

syklops

dambarude wrote: »

Apparently it's in tomorrow's SBP that the undergrad registration fee will only go up by €250, which is less than had been touted. The USI have been making a lot of noise about it.

I don't know what that might mean for postgrads. TBH there's been very little talk of this move against postgrad grants, so it could get slipped through.

The Sunday Business Post is a rag. Stop buying it and it might go away.

dambarude

syklops wrote: »

The Sunday Business Post is a rag. Stop buying it and it might go away.

We'll see if they're right on Monday.

augusta24

Did anyone get the SBP? Just wondering if it says anything more

Larkenn

So far I've paused my postgrad application and stopped working on my portfolio. I've even started researching emigration again. Its cruel to leave people in limbo for so long. I guess tomorrow will tell us if we have a future here.

Byron85

Postgrad grants are officially gone.

Philip Boucher-Hayes: New post graduate students will not receive maintenance grants any longer.

token56

This does seem a bit counter productive. What are people who would have been doing those post grads going to do next year instead, well there are 3 options:

Emigrate - Less people spending money in the domestic economy, reduced VAT and other tax intakes.
Find a Job - Already quite difficult for a lot of people, and since there will be a number of people in the workforce who were able to complete postgrads in the previous years, people going in with undergrads looking for jobs are at an additional disadvantage
Join the dole - Increased social welfare spending

I think the government has accepted a large portion of Ireland's youth are going to be emigrating and thats it unfortunately.