Clare Daly - she's bloody intolerable

RobAMerc

Dirk Gently wrote: »

It appears you two have something in common so.

Ok, I was wrong about that - but the difference is I a not consistently wrong and I dont go on telly spouting horse sh1te proposals to save the country with incorrect figures that are torn apart by any right minded economist. Constantin Gurdgiev, Moore McDowell and now Matt Cooper have rubbished her "ideas" as ill concived nonsense showing her complete lack of understanding - she is playing to an audience, it may be the voice of dissent but it's still to a specific audience !

Uriel. wrote: »

??

She does the same. Proclaims all these wonderful socialist ideas and how things should be done because its popular with the unthinking voter who's concerns only stretch to them and their family, without heed for the bigger picture.

Ireland can be described as being on a downhill slope right now, no doubt, but if we implemented her bullsh1t "policies" we'd remain on the down ward slope but this time we'd have a steam engine strapped to us ensuring a free fall descent.

Anyone with any sense of initiative and entrepreneurialship would be gone under her policies, so would all the multinationals, all the while protecting trade unionism and ensuring that those people in companies whose jobs have disappeared are kept on and paid

Couldn't have put it better myself - literally !

NinjaK wrote: »

I like her.She gives an opposing viewpoint to the right wing middle class consensus that runs in Irish politics.

I am all for opposing view points - but she is political equivalent of Dunphy and Hooke - will oppose for opposition sake in the face of rational educated thought.

goalscoringhero

fliball123 wrote: »

She was on Vinny B doing this exact thing..spouting that she doesnt know anyone who is screwing the system..the dizzy bint..they are hardly going to go up to her Hi Claire I am screwing it over..I know 3 / 4 people screwing it and I would bet everyone on this board knows at least one person screwing it...

Your attempt at quantification is a function of how many people you know, so your number could be quite high or very low, if you get me...

I personally don't know anyone who is screwing the system.

Dr Galen

By all means feel free to criticise Ms Daly's policies and views, but lets have no more of this cheap and petty namecalling nonsense.

Either make your point in a reasonable and adult fashion, or find somewhere else to make it

Cheers

DrG

irishh_bob

murphaph wrote: »

Are you for real? A decade of populist FF and now what looks like more of the same from FG/LAB.

If Ireland was being run by the real middle classes I can guarantee you welfare and PS rates of pay wouldn't be so high and there'd be no such thing as a government job for life!

Look around you. The government is bending over backwards to maintain pay and conditions of unionised public sector workers and social welfare recipients.

just shows you how our liberal media have so utterly conditioned the thinking of so many of our population , the hated middle class are seen as the cow which should never go dry regardless of how little corn is left

irishh_bob

RobAMerc wrote: »

Ok, I was wrong about that - but the difference is I a not consistently wrong and I dont go on telly spouting horse sh1te proposals to save the country with incorrect figures that are torn apart by any right minded economist. Constantin Gurdgiev, Moore McDowell and now Matt Cooper have rubbished her "ideas" as ill concived nonsense showing her complete lack of understanding - she is playing to an audience, it may be the voice of dissent but it's still to a specific audience !

Couldn't have put it better myself - literally !



I am all for opposing view points - but she is political equivalent of Dunphy and Hooke - will oppose for opposition sake in the face of rational educated thought.

im not sure daly is playing to an audience , sinn fein certainly are but i think daly and certainly higgins are true believers

fliball123

goalscoringhero wrote: »

Your attempt at quantification is a function of how many people you know, so your number could be quite high or very low, if you get me...

I personally don't know anyone who is screwing the system.

Sorry well how much thus far has been saved on welfare fraud...Answer 345 million in 7 months according to the bellow!
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Press/PressReleases/2011/Pages/pr290811.aspx


Hardly a small sum ...so that must be at least in the 5 digits figure of people frauding the dole ... and thats only the ones that have been caught

psychward

Hi Chi Min or Kim Il yong or jung il (or whatever the dudes name is ) could have ran the country for the last ten years and we'd still have less debt than we have now and at least we'd have Olympic gold medals for synchronised marching With that perspective in mind I will reserve my hate for those who steered the economy off a cliff while stuffing their pockets with taxpayers money instead of the new faces such as Clare regardless of her political beliefs which is something else.

nesf

irishh_bob wrote: »

im not sure daly is playing to an audience , sinn fein certainly are but i think daly and certainly higgins are true believers

Yeah, I'd agree with this. And scarier for them being so too.

Good loser

There was a 1% wealth tax in Ireland in the late 70's early 80's. It took years to get going and, I think, raised about £5m -£7m per annum.

I believe there is a 0.75% wealth tax in France that makes €0.7bn per annum.

I'd like to see her asked what % she proposes and when she expects the first billion in. She talks as if she could have it in by Christmas.

Strange for a so called socialist to oppose a property tax.

Wonder have they an IQ test for the Socialist Party?

Lockstep

As an aside on Daly's income, Socialist Party candidates take the AIW and donate the rest to the party and what they deem to be worthy causes.

Not a SP fan but just pointing that out.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Elmer Blooker

mikemac wrote: »

A real socialist, always miserable.

Yeah these bloody socialists! Remember how they moaned and groaned during the boom years about a FF "golden circle" the Galway races tent, dodgy planning, cowboy builders with politicians in their pockets, bankers screwing the country etc, etc.
Bunch of gobs****s.:D

murphaph

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Yeah these bloody socialists! Remember how they moaned and groaned during the boom years about a FF "golden circle" the Galway races tent, dodgy planning, cowboy builders with politicians in their pockets, bankers screwing the country etc, etc.
Bunch of gobs****s.:D

Labour had (have?) their equivalent of the Golden Circle etc. It's called the unionised workforce (almost exclusively public sector) who Labour will defend to the last, even implementing welfare cuts before they dare cut their own Gold Circle.

As for bad planning: show me any party except the Greens that made a real issue of planning. Show me a party in which no councillor has voted to rezone land inappropriately.

Also, David Begg (chief socialist of Ireland if we are to believe the bullsh!t) still has his 6 figure salary and Merc and was sitting on the feckin board of the Central Bank-socialists did really well for us alright.

We either have extreme left wingers like Daly and Higgins who simply couldn't hope to fund their crazy plans or we have champagne socialists like Begg and Gilmore. I would actually like a few pragmatic socialists or social democrats to vote for in Ireland. Most other countries' socialists are a lot more useful than ours.

nesf

murphaph wrote: »

Show me a party in which no councillor has voted to rezone land inappropriately.

I think the Greens have a pretty good reputation here. Can't remember about SF. Lab, FG and FF have covered themselves in crap on this issue.

anymore

Well whatever her present salary, I would be prepared to give this novice a degree of latitude - after all she had no input into the level of salary for TDs. Now consider what a venerable veteran Socialist said :

"....I am most attracted to the concept of the social floor. We regularly insult language by saying we live in a Republic. We do not. If we had any version of citizenship, there would be a social floor for health and housing for example, a threshold below which no citizen would be allowed to fall.
"Those who vote to reduce the minimum wage are saying that the people who are dependent on it are of less importance than others in society. As a Republican and as a socialist, I condemn that attitude."
http://www.labour.ie/blog/2010/12/17/dil-debate-on-reducing-the-minimum-wage/
This venerable socialist has already accumulated 3 extravagant PS pensions and now is earning € 250,000 a year, plus car and driver plus use of a mansion with staff. He is of course President Higgins.

So I would say that Mz Daly is entitled to be given the benefit of the doubt a few years before she so harshly judged. There are other ' Socialists' whose record is far more deserving of critical analysis.

swordofislam

anymore wrote: »

"....I am most attracted to the concept of the social floor. We regularly insult language by saying we live in a Republic. We do not. If we had any version of citizenship, there would be a social floor for health and housing for example, a threshold below which no citizen would be allowed to fall.
"Those who vote to reduce the minimum wage are saying that the people who are dependent on it are of less importance than others in society. As a Republican and as a socialist, I condemn that attitude."
http://www.labour.ie/blog/2010/12/17/dil-debate-on-reducing-the-minimum-wage/
This venerable socialist has already accumulated 3 extravagant PS pensions and now is earning € 250,000 a year, plus car and driver plus use of a mansion with staff. He is of course President Higgins.

What is the point that you are trying to make?

anymore wrote: »

So I would say that Mz Daly is entitled to be given the benefit of the doubt a few years before she so harshly judged. There are other ' Spocialists' whose record is far more deserving of critical analysis.

What is a spocialist?

anymore

swordofislam wrote: »

What is the point that you are trying to make?





What is a spocialist?

Does anyone find this woman totally intolerable ?
I hear her spouting idealistic nonsense constantly always with a huge chip on her shoulder towards anyone that earns above the minimum wage.
She is also consistently making up figures to support her argument and seems to have little or know knowledge or at least ill conceived ideas.

I wonder how she sleeps at night when she earns 100k per annum and most of the people who voted for her are on the bread line ?

The point I am making is that it is a bit harsh to be so critical of a novice TD for ' spouting idealisitic nonsense' when we have so handsomely rewarded this ' idealisitic nonsense' so very recently

BOZG

fliball123 wrote: »

Sorry well how much thus far has been saved on welfare fraud...Answer 345 million in 7 months according to the bellow!
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Press/PressReleases/2011/Pages/pr290811.aspx


Hardly a small sum ...so that must be at least in the 5 digits figure of people frauding the dole ... and thats only the ones that have been caught

Nothing like adding a little spice to your press releases and your figures to suit your agenda.

To begin with, the figure for €345 million above is in control savings, not actual savings.

Controls savings are basically savings from the Department double checking their figures as in, Johnny claims for A, Department assess claim and rules that Johnny is not eligible. As a result, the Department saves €15,000 per annum by introducing "controls" preventing "fraud". The figures also automatically assume that anyone who's not entitled to X but is currently in receipt of X or is trying apply for X is committing or attempting to commit fraud where in many cases, it could be due to an administrative error or the person is applying to see if they're entitled or mistakenly believe they are entitled.

According to economist Michael Taft, only Social Welfare actually use these figures publicly as they're not considered to be accurate whatsoever, relying on pure speculation and manipulation. For example, does the "over seven months" relate to saving €345 million between January and July (and €600 million in a year) or does it mean that this control programme took place over seven months and that the €345 million figures constitutes speculative savings over the next 5 years?

The actual figures for SW fraud, and fraud as in, "I'm consciously conning the dole", are much smaller (€26 million in 2010) and that as a percentage of over-payments, they are declining.

Is mise le key

Just want to clarify, she takes the average wage from the salary she earns & returns the remainder to the party she is elected for, to fund campaigns for the various issues people voted her in for.

Seems fair to her voters, no?

Also, if you dont find leo, enda, lucinda & co's insincere idealistic nonsense about how everything will be grand as long as we keep on trucking with the EU more irritating than someone who pulls no punches & doesnt think this is all a bit of craic & a laugh, then you should be worried about your own priorities.

Even if you dont aggree with anything the Socialist party stand for, the smug condecending tone from FG would be more irritating to me than an opposition TD, did any of you hear leo on newstalk last week about the cencelation of the metro!!!!!

What an arrogant condecending horrible human being we have in cabinet.

fliball123

BOZG wrote: »

Nothing like adding a little spice to your press releases and your figures to suit your agenda.

To begin with, the figure for €345 million above is in control savings, not actual savings.

Controls savings are basically savings from the Department double checking their figures as in, Johnny claims for A, Department assess claim and rules that Johnny is not eligible. As a result, the Department saves €15,000 per annum by introducing "controls" preventing "fraud". The figures also automatically assume that anyone who's not entitled to X but is currently in receipt of X or is trying apply for X is committing or attempting to commit fraud where in many cases, it could be due to an administrative error or the person is applying to see if they're entitled or mistakenly believe they are entitled.

According to economist Michael Taft, only Social Welfare actually use these figures publicly as they're not considered to be accurate whatsoever, relying on pure speculation and manipulation. For example, does the "over seven months" relate to saving €345 million between January and July (and €600 million in a year) or does it mean that this control programme took place over seven months and that the €345 million figures constitutes speculative savings over the next 5 years?

The actual figures for SW fraud, and fraud as in, "I'm consciously conning the dole", are much smaller (€26 million in 2010) and that as a percentage of over-payments, they are declining.

Right I will give you that..have they not said that they will save over 600milllion over next year or 2 on this fraud ?? Proof will be in the pudding as they say

BOZG

fliball123 wrote: »

Right I will give you that..have they not said that they will save over 600milllion over next year or 2 on this fraud ?? Proof will be in the pudding as they say

I don't see any time frames mentioned in that Press Release and I'm not living in Ireland these days, so I don't follow the news as closely, so it's possible that's the time frame they are claiming. Using the figure of €345 million for January - July would give a figure of just under €600 million for a full year so maybe they are saying that an extra €345 million would have potentially been claimed in that period. Regardless, it still doesn't constitute €345 million worth of fraud, as their own figures attest to. Thousands of people apply for medical cards or fuel allowances or the many other benefits paid out by the state each year in the hope that they might be entitled to something. In many cases, they aren't but they're hardly committing fraud by applying, which is what these figures and the government is trying to spin.

Michael Taft uses a good analogy in that article when he says that using the figures from control savings is like the Gardai saying that they've stopped 20,000 crimes this year (speculative crimes!) just because they exist. But at least with that analogy, they're at least actually crimes and not the devious defrauding of the state by OAPs who aren't sure what they're entitled to.

Jolly Red Giant

Bozg has answered the issue of welfare 'fraud'.

A couple of other points of clarification -

Good loser wrote: »

I believe there is a 0.75% wealth tax in France that makes €0.7bn per annum.

€4.42billion in 2008
http://www.humaniteinenglish.com/spip.php?article843

Good loser wrote: »

I'd like to see her asked what % she proposes and when she expects the first billion in. She talks as if she could have it in by Christmas.

1% wealth tax on all wealth over €1million would raise €1.2billion

Good loser wrote: »

Strange for a so called socialist to oppose a property tax.

The household tax is a regressive tax levied at the same level for all property and irrespective of ability to pay. What is needed is a progressive taxation system.

Lockstep

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

1% wealth tax on all wealth over €1million would raise €1.2billion

Isn't that assuming that all the wealth stays in Ireland?
I see no problems with a wealth tax but I'm baffled as to how much can be raised, given the propensity for capital flight.

Fr.Harry Bell

fliball123 wrote: »

She was on Vinny B doing this exact thing..spouting that she doesnt know anyone who is screwing the system..the dizzy bint..they are hardly going to go up to her Hi Claire I am screwing it over..I know 3 / 4 people screwing it and I would bet everyone on this board knows at least one person screwing it...

She spouted ahh we need jobs...and when asked what was her way of creating these jobs.....Well Vinny B the private sector has seen their capital cut from 54billion to 17 billion so the private sector is not going to do..So the gov need to do it.?? So how does that work claire were do we get this money..Lets tax more.....She was shown by the other lad who has the book out that we are past the point of diminishing returns with tax and it was also pointed out that if a wealth tax is put on the richest will take their assets and cash out of Ireland...The demo left totally derived of any ideas to get us out of the mire...Also claire please wash your hair love

Unfortunately this is where the country has gone wrong.

Everybody blames everybody else and nobody has the chutzpah to satand up and say" well yes my people are at fault"

Like Ms.Daly would be better to admit what every christian knows, that there is massive social welfare fraud.

Like others should also admit that there is massive white collar crime and manipulation.

No point in adopting stances and defending the indefensible.Doesn't do the populace any good at all, only serves to drive wedges between the social partners.


Better adopt the Christian attitude and admit our faults and get together to try to sort them out.

That's what the Lord would encourage, I'm sure.

anymore

Fr.Harry Bell wrote: »

Unfortunately this is where the country has gone wrong.

Everybody blames everybody else and nobody has the chutzpah to satand up and say" well yes my people are at fault"

Like Ms.Daly would be better to admit what every christian knows, that there is massive social welfare fraud.

Like others should also admit that there is massive white collar crime and manipulation.

No point in adopting stances and defending the indefensible.Doesn't do the populace any good at all, only serves to drive wedges between the social partners.


Better adopt the Christian attitude and admit our faults and get together to try to sort them out.

That's what the Lord would encourage, I'm sure.

I wonder would the Lord be surprised to know that the last innocent person murdered in his name by the inquisition was killed as recently as the early 1800's in Spain ? I wont go into details as this is not the religiln section !

psychward

Fr.Harry Bell wrote: »

No point in adopting stances and defending the indefensible.Doesn't do the populace any good at all, only serves to drive wedges between the social partners.


Better adopt the Christian attitude and admit our faults and get together to try to sort them out.

That's what the Lord would encourage, I'm sure.

A ''Christian attitude'' or what amounted to a theocracy for decades in Ireland didnt' exactly create an environment of openness and honesty etc. In fact it led exactly to adopting stances and defending the indefensible especially on the part of the church. I prefer the ''Chinese attitude'' aka shoot the corrupt and make their families pay for the bullet.

Fr.Harry Bell

psychward wrote: »

A ''Christian attitude'' or what amounted to a theocracy for decades in Ireland didnt' exactly create an environment of openness and honesty etc. In fact it led exactly to adopting stances and defending the indefensible especially on the part of the church. I prefer the ''Chinese attitude'' aka shoot the corrupt and make their families pay for the bullet.

You are perfectly correct in that observation.

The catholic Church has indeed a lot to answer for.

It's just that adopting stances which nobody believes and everyone knows is not true, does nobody any good.

Does not move us forward, in my opinion.

irishh_bob

Fr.Harry Bell wrote: »

Unfortunately this is where the country has gone wrong.

Everybody blames everybody else and nobody has the chutzpah to satand up and say" well yes my people are at fault"

Like Ms.Daly would be better to admit what every christian knows, that there is massive social welfare fraud.

Like others should also admit that there is massive white collar crime and manipulation.

No point in adopting stances and defending the indefensible.Doesn't do the populace any good at all, only serves to drive wedges between the social partners.


Better adopt the Christian attitude and admit our faults and get together to try to sort them out.

That's what the Lord would encourage, I'm sure.

not a bad post although i cant help but think , it would be every bit as effective without the religous references

James Jones

She was interviewed in Hot Press recently:

"The Socialist TD also offers herself as a champion of fathers' rights, saying, “I have met many men who I believe have been seriously hard done by, by the courts and by the system. I think there are people in the campaigns for fathers’ rights who maybe don’t help the cause because of the way in which they conduct themselves, but I do think there is a problem there, absolutely, that needs to be articulated…

She then followed through as follows:
Hospital Services
School Enrolments
Gender Discrimination
Human Rights Issues
Equality Issues
Equality Issues
Health Services

There are other (male) TD's who simply won't ask these questions.

Fr.Harry Bell

Excellent post, however one thing leaps out.

Is she as concerned about peoples responsibilities as peoples rights?

Just that there seems to be one theme going through her excellent series of questions.