Bodkin / Headford Road roundabout replacement [Lights are on!]

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I presume that's just a typo or something? There was a HSE report published in May of this year which showed that the level of hospital admissions for road traffic collision injuries was 3.5 times larger overall than what was reported in Garda statistics.

That's injuries serious enough to require hospitalisation, not just "incidents" and not just injuries mild enough to be treated without admission to hospital or without recourse to A&E departments.

Significantly, the HSE data show that the number of injured cyclists admitted to hospital is nearly ten times the number of injured cyclists reported in Garda stats.


News story: Many more road injuries than reported, says HSE

HSE report: Admission to Acute Hospitals for Injuries as a Result of Road Traffic Collisions in Ireland 2005–2009

How many incidents? 100, 1,000, 10,000? Per week/year? Vs 13 million journeys per year - how unsafe is the behaviour really with such a small number of incidents?

Iwannahurl

Another key point, in the context of roundabouts such as Bodkin, is vulnerable road users' perception of safety and experience of apparent risk.

Many current and potential pedestrians, bus users and cyclists (including children and their parents) are thoroughly intimidated by roundabouts. This point has been made repeatedly, eg in the Council's own research, in various consultants' studies, and by community groups.

Incidentally, the Council's own Walking & Cycling Survey (which they conducted in 2009 and is long closed), didn't even feature a question on roundabouts. Despite this odd omission, IIRC a significant percentage of respondents identified roundabouts as a barrier. The online survey was conducted as part of their Smarter Travel application and its findings regarding roundabouts were supported by the feedback they received in subsequent workshops.

According to the Council's own analyses, approximately 40% of accidents involving pedestrians and cyclists occur on the main roads and roundabouts approaching the City Centre. The likely contributory factors are identified as junction layout, inadequate facilities for pedestrians and cyclists, and the high speed and traffic volumes through each junction.

Their consultants also concluded that safety at junctions -- most especially on roundabouts -- is one of the greatest barriers facing active transport modes in Galway City and its environs. Lack of continuity of routes for pedestrians and cyclists, removal of priority, and the speed and volume of motorised traffic are all cited as presenting considerable challenges.

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antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Incidentally, the Council's own Walking & Cycling Survey (which they conducted in 2009 and is long closed), didn't even feature a question on roundabouts. Despite this odd omission, IIRC a significant percentage of respondents identified roundabouts as a barrier. The online survey was conducted as part of their Smarter Travel application and its findings regarding roundabouts were supported by the feedback they received in subsequent workshops.

So no numbers then, just perceptions.

The use of the perceptions of a lobby group is something you have a problem with when motorists perceived gripes about traffic lights are aired.

Stop being hypocritical and back it up with figures that can be confirmed -you know the type of information you're asking off motorists then ignore when its provided because it doesn't suit your premise.

cL0h

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Have you tried crossing from the Dun na Coiribe side to the Omniplex side when two lines of vehicles are accelerating towards you, potentially from different angles?


And have you tried cycling through it in all possible directions?

The "correct" way for a pedestrian to cross through in that direction is to use the pedestrian crossing back in front of Dunnes and then use the pedestrian crossings to cross the Sean Mulvoy entrance road. Sounds insane but what else could the planners have envisioned for a shopping laden buggy. Certainly crossing at the Quincentennial side is taking your life in your hands.

As for cycling. From some directions it is fine and from others it's a nightmare. Cycling from the Quincentennial and intending on going straight ahead on the Sean Mulvoy towards Cemetry Cross is a total nightmare as you are basically dumped onto the slip road. Cycling the opposite direction is easy.
The main problem for cyclists is that that roundabout tends to raise people's adrenalin levels and (while that's like nitro for a cyclist) your average motorist is a pent up ball of unreleased adrenalin at the best of times.

Sponge Bob

cL0h wrote: »

your average motorist is a pent up ball of unreleased adrenalin at the best of times.

You average motorist simply thinks 'Look!, a cyclist, bet it will do something stupid and unpredictable any minute'

Generally the well visible and well lit ones are less stupid and less unpredictable. They also tend to cycle quite fast and motorists tend to let them pass and give them room to weave in and out.

Stupid and unpredictable is a given when you see some idiot in dark clothes and no light ( sometimes no reflector even) on the bike as you do every evening in Galway.

You really want to get past that thing as fast as you can and once you do you do not leave it room to pass on the inside later.

Then the stupid and unpredictable ones sometimes come onto boards to give out about motorists beeping them .....for being stupid and unpredictable.

cL0h

Sponge Bob wrote: »

...
You really want to get past that thing as fast as you can and once you do you do not leave it room to pass on the inside later...

ahem.. pent up ball of adrenalin!

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

So no numbers then, just perceptions.

The use of the perceptions of a lobby group is something you have a problem with when motorists perceived gripes about traffic lights are aired.

Stop being hypocritical and back it up with figures that can be confirmed -you know the type of information you're asking off motorists then ignore when its provided because it doesn't suit your premise.

Not for the first time, you are missing or ignoring the key message.

A range of sources -- Garda stats, consultants' analyses (eg Strategic Bus Study, Public Transport Feasibility Study), City Council surveys/reports (eg Smarter Travel, draft Walking & Cycling Strategy), independent studies (eg Failte Ireland), community groups (eg City Forum) and anecdotal reports -- all of these point in the same direction: Galway City's roundabouts are problematic.

The N6 Multimodal Corridor Improvement Scheme, the core of which is the removal of several roundabouts, also suggests that even the roundabout-friendly NRA agrees at least in part.

If quoting all of these sources suits my "premise" (whatever you imagine that might be) then so be it.

No amount of complaining about alleged hypocrisy or motorists' gripes, perceived or otherwise, alters the fact that Galway City roundabouts have been repeatedly identified by a range of stakeholders as being a significant barrier to active commuting and sustainable transport, as well as to particular groups such as children and disabled people travelling by means other than the private car. Such modes of travel, by their very nature and of necessity, have to constitute a significant part of any efforts to tackle Galway's chronic traffic congestion and to maximise access and mobility for vulnerable road users who not only don't add to the congestion but are actually helping to solve it.

If even senior members of the GTU are now admitting (at last) that the original intended purpose of roundabouts was always to prioritise motorised traffic flow, that certain roundabouts are now a cause of congestion at peak times, and that they are hostile to active commuters, then it seems the game is up IMO.

Progress is all too slow, as well as being mired in controversy and incompetence, but we may well be seeing the beginning of the end of Galway's doomed love affair with roundabouts. The removal of a few key ones is a good start, but there are many more that need serious remedial works, such as the addition of pedestrian priority crossings. The GTU mandarins' innate resistance to such measures hasn't gone away you know, but maybe, just maybe, the momentum is in the right direction for once.

Incidentally, I sincerely hope the new AUTC will be used to maximise safety and convenience for active commuters and bus users, and that it won't be misused to boost motorised traffic flow at their expense.

Iwannahurl

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You really want to get past that thing as fast as you can and once you do you do not leave it room to pass on the inside later.

Galway driving in a sentence.

Sponge Bob

Simple solution, put a light on the bike...and yourself. Then you become a road user not a dangerous invisible nuisance.

Iwannahurl

That would be a solution for the common problem (commonly ignored by the enforcers) of unlit cyclists.

Mind you, if lights are attached to cars at the manufacturing stage, why should bikes be different? If it was made illegal to sell bikes without lights attached the problem would be significantly reduced or possibly even eliminated overnight.

Can you imagine the scene on Irish roads if it were left up to drivers to attach lights to their cars after buying them?

I always use lights front and rear, the bike has reflectors, I wear a Sam Browne, I put a a hi-viz cover on my rucksack, the trailer is brightly coloured and has reflectors and a flag. I still get overtaken dangerously, far more often than is tolerable.

The standard of driving in Ireland (and Galway) is generally appalling, and is all the more dangerous and intimidating in the vicinity of vulnerable road users. Some of the dangerous drivers are very well lit.

Sponge Bob

Iwannahurl wrote: »

the trailer is brightly coloured and has reflectors and a flag. I still get overtaken dangerously, far more often than is tolerable.

Trailer :eek: Only place I seen one of those recently was in Barna.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Not for the first time, you are missing or ignoring the key message.

No that would be ignoring your propaganda the way you ignore anything that doesn't have statistics that are up to your standard.

Now sod off and get some.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Now sod off and get some.

Post reported.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Post reported.

Why? it's not as arrogant as your posts and demand for statistics.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Why? it's not as arrogant as your posts and demand for statistics.

Jeasus would you ever stop f***ing complaining. You obviously have not got the ability to read official reports and appear to think no one else in Galway can.

antoobrien

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Jeasus would you ever stop f***ing complaining. You obviously have not got the ability to read official reports and appear to think no one else in Galway can.

Care to supply some official figures to back up your assertions.

No, didn't think so.

Why do you keep asking motorists to back up their assertions when you will soapbox your own without any figures, just your opinions?

ciotog

antoobrien wrote: »

So no numbers then, just perceptions.

The use of the perceptions of a lobby group is something you have a problem with when motorists perceived gripes about traffic lights are aired.

Stop being hypocritical and back it up with figures that can be confirmed -you know the type of information you're asking off motorists then ignore when its provided because it doesn't suit your premise.

There are some numbers from a survey that the council did (linked later in the thread) but the survey results weren't made public. I've seen the numbers relating to those who cite roundabouts as a barrier to cycling but the only source I can find is an unpublished document. That's a perception statistic so I'm not sure if you'd be interested in that in this current line of discussion. What is published from the survey is in part of the Smarter Travel bid (http://www.galwaycity.ie/SmarterTravel/GMSTA_01.pdf) - again perceptions e.g. "75% said poor connectivity at junctions presented safety issues for pedestrians and cyclists;" on page 15. There are some numbers for pedestrian traffic volumes around the Bodkin roundabout at http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/281011_02.pdf along with a chart on cyclist traffic. I can have a hunt through (cycle campaign) email to see if there's anything else - if there's anything specific you're after (I understand this is just a part of your discussion with Iwannahurl but I thought I'd make the effort to point some data out)

ciotog

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Generally the well visible and well lit ones are less stupid and less unpredictable. They also tend to cycle quite fast and motorists tend to let them pass and give them room to weave in and out.

Stupid and unpredictable is a given when you see some idiot in dark clothes and no light ( sometimes no reflector even) on the bike as you do every evening in Galway.

I was behind one of them coming past the Galway Shopping Centre this evening, not a light or any kind of reflective material to be seen. Not a great idea as we were both overtaking a long, long line of cars from about Argos to where the road splits into three lanes.

galwaycyclist

From July 2001

A Foras Forbartha study on cycling in Galway in 1979 specifically raised the issue of the safety of cyclists and the roundabouts that were then being proposed for the city. At that time, in afternoon traffic in Galway, there was 19km travelled by bicycle for every 100km by car. [5] The national design manual RT 181 Intersections at Grade itself queries the suitablity of using roundabouts at locations where there might be cyclists turning right. [6] (It doesn't specify whether a University town with 12,000 third level students might fit this description.)

A study on roundabouts in Swords in county Dublin in 1987 (R.286) found that two-wheeler casualties were five times higher than expected.  "The high incidence of two wheeler accidents on the Swords bypass allied with similar findings in the major accident study carried out by the TRRL on roundabouts shows that roundabouts on high speed roads do not provide a safe environment for two wheelers and consequently give serious reservation as to their use where high numbers of this road user class is expected". [2] In terms of pedestrians R.286 states that for the Swords by pass "The low level of pedestrians involved in personal injury accidents on the by-pass primarily relates to the provision of overbridges and signalised control facilities away from the roundabout and should not be taken as indicative of pedestrian safety at roundabouts in general".  There are no overbridges in Galway and only one signalised crossing, the situation for pedestrians on Galway's roundabouts is best demonstrated by examining the attached photographs.   It is arguable that using any high capacity roundabouts in a town like Galway shows at best incompetence and at worst a considered contempt for the most vulnerable residents.    It is clear that there are serious questions to be asked regarding how it is that any roundabouts were ever constructed either in, or near, Galway city.

More here:
http://www.oocities.org/galwaycyclist/roundabout/roundabout01.html

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

Care to supply some official figures to back up your assertions.

No, didn't think so.

Why do you keep asking motorists to back up their assertions when you will soapbox your own without any figures, just your opinions?

I have referenced various sources repeatedly across various threads.

Which assertions?

biko

This thread is just going round in circles.
When work on the RB is actually commencing a thread may be started again.

biko

A user notified me that the upcoming work has now been given a contractor. http://www.galwaynews.ie/26989-notorious-roundabout-bite-dust-next-month

Work on the Galway Shopping Centre Roundabout is set to commence in August with Clare Civil Engineering the contractors lined up for the project, estimated to cost in the region of €2 million.
Motorists can expect some traffic disruption through the construction period but most of the ‘heavy work’ will be take place during the night-time period.

snubbleste

OMG..August?
Isn't that when traffic completely jams up the town because of people buying schoolbooks? I'm too lazy to search but wasn't that the excuse last August when tin boxes were lined up in neat order for hours?

Mrs OBumble

snubbleste wrote: »

OMG..August?
Isn't that when traffic completely jams up the town because of people buying schoolbooks? I'm too lazy to search but wasn't that the excuse last August when tin boxes were lined up in neat order for hours?

Yes.

But when do you want them to start? This week or last (arts fest)? Before that (VOR)? Next week (races)? September (when school / college starts)? October (so it's not finished before Christmas)?

snubbleste

I'm well aware there's never a good time for this in Galway...I should've added a shiny smilie
I predict utter chaos followed by an imminent breakdown in society.

Iwannahurl

Or perhaps an eminent breakdown?

Eye ee a certain Councillor flying into a state of stratospheric apoplexy...

KevR

Any update on when the adjacent Menlo Park roundabout is going to be upgraded?

planetX

Dread.

Sponge Bob

I THINK Menlo will be upgraded late this year and Corrib Park possibly at the same time or possibly next year. No plans published for Corrib Park yet. No tender has issued for either.

The intention was to finish them all by end 2012

dloob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I THINK Menlo will be upgraded late this year and Corrib Park possibly at the same time or possibly next year. No plans published for Corrib Park yet. No tender has issued for either.

The intention was to finish them all by end 2012

They need a vote on a contravention of the city development plan to be passed for the menlo park one.
That won't be until October. So no work before then at least.