Post-natal depression is a myth.

Wibbs

I think the problem with mental illness(especially depression) is the stupid stigma that has and continues to surround it. Guff like the OP's well... guff.

IMHO and I beg your patience, medications and being on them make it seem more like an "actual illness you know*. I'm taking pills cos I have an imbalance". It legitimises the illness for many. I'm ill so I'll take a pill. It tells the naysayer who say "snap out of it" to fcuk off. They should be told to fcuk off BTW. Someone on actual drugs must be more sick than someone going to a counselor kinda notion.

Being told "well placebo works as well" makes the illness seem "all in the mind". Utter balls, as placebo is more than all in the mind. It has clinical effects. Counseling also makes the illness "all in the mind" and somehow the sufferers "fault" if they don't pull out of it. Again utter balls. It's not anyones fault. As for in the mind? The greatest joy and the greatest terror can lay between our ears. We've climbed mountains of intellect and art with that same mind. It's the most amazing thing in all creation that we know of. Everyone of us here has one. How fcuking cool is that? Our mind is well capable of creating damn near anything. And most of all it's well capable with expert help and support of even helping ourselves.

Anyhoo... The suggestion, even in the face of some good evidence that to quote the song "the drugs don't work" or more to the point not as advertised is hard to take for people, so the barriers go up. Understandable too. It sounds like the thin end of the wedge suggesting people are imagining it. That certainly is not my opinion nor intention.




*It is an illness/condition and a bloody debilitating one for sufferers and their circle.

Abi

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Oh god, After Hours is not the place for this OP, not if you are looking for mature, well thought-out responses. All you'll get here is arguments and childish jibes.

Guys why all the anger?

The OP makes the point that PND is a form of depression and that what the mother suffering with it is depressed about is being a mother.

I fail to see the problem with that tbh.

Would you normally start threads yourself and not actively contribute to the discussion?

AudreyHepburn

Abi wrote: »

Would you normally start threads yourself and not be actively contribute to the discussion?

Not if the responding posters behaved like animals and tore me to shreds without actually taking the time to consider my point, no.

What's the point in the OP responding when you all repeatadly lay into her?

Abi

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Not if the responding posters behaved like animals and tore me to shreds without actually taking the time to consider my point, no.

What's the point in the OP responding when you all repeatadly lay into her?

Christ, cut the drama will you? If you have a strong opinion on something, you'd expect to be asked questions on it.

Kasabian

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Oh god, After Hours is not the place for this OP, not if you are looking for mature, well thought-out responses. All you'll get here is arguments and childish jibes.

Guys why all the anger?

The OP makes the point that PND is a form of depression and that what the mother suffering with it is depressed about is being a mother.

I fail to see the problem with that tbh.

Have you even read the thread?

TheyKnowMyIP

Dudess wrote: »

Yours is a theory too. And what did you have to throw the neurosurgeon jibe at Millicent for? It doesn't help your case in any way.

No it's not. A theory is unsubstantiated by evidence. I am not the one making the claim that depression is the result of a chemical imbalance. My assertion is not a theory, it's a scientific fact that Depression by current scientific standards, is not the result of a biochemical imbalance in the brain. Simple to understand given the lack of evidence.

Of course it helps my case! The article linked throws around the word "theory" far too often for my liking. Even the author is stating it's a "theory". How does that bode for simple minded folk like myself? The doctors ain't giving you the full truth about these drugs. This evidence is indicative of this.

Why are mind altering drugs being prescribed on little more than "a theory" about how the brain is depressed from the result of a serotonic deficiency. Like I said, I call bull****.

My name is URL

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Oh god, After Hours is not the place for this OP, not if you are looking for mature, well thought-out responses. All you'll get here is arguments and childish jibes.

Guys why all the anger?

The OP makes the point that PND is a form of depression and that what the mother suffering with it is depressed about is being a mother.

I fail to see the problem with that tbh.

That is the problem. It's not a just a form of depression. Depression is one of the symptoms, but not necessarily the root cause. And 'depression' itself is a pretty broad term.. it's not just the feeling of being down that many people see it as.

AudreyHepburn

Abi wrote: »

Christ, cut the drama will you? If you have a strong opinion on something, you'd expect to be asked questions on it.

I'm not being dramatic, merely saying that there is little point in debating with people who cut you down at every oppertunity.

The OP made a valid point and was attacked for it. I'd cut my losses too if it were me.

Questioned....yes of you expect that.

TheyKnowMyIP

Personally speaking, people who shoot down others without doing their own bloody research on the issue says alot more about the person who is merely whoring for "thanks". If you won't engage in the discussion without a working knowledge of the topic being discussed, one should refrain from the discussion imo.

Opinions mean nothing. "Feeling" this and "Feeling" that is not conducive to establishing that certain forms of Depression are based on mythical claims that Depression is a serotonic deficiency in the brain.

Without sufficient evidence, none of the opinions here to the contrary hold much value. The value of this thread, lies in supporting the claim that PND depression is an actual disease of the mind. So far, this has not been substantiated beyond "stick it up your orifice" etc.

I feel like banging my head agaisnt a wall:pac:

Kasabian

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I feel like banging my head agaisnt a wall:pac:

Funny that when I was depressed I often felt this way. Instead I drank.

up for anything

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Did I hurt your ego? Here, have a tissue:(

Is that supposed to be a put down?

TheyKnowMyIP

kelle wrote: »

You have obviously never suffered from PND because if you did you'd bloody well know all about it! How can you refer to it as "only depression"??? It is nothing to do with regretting having the child and being unable to turn the clock back.

Such a statement is an insult to families like those of my colleague whose cousin ended up committing suicide as a result of it.

Maybe you believe cancer is "only in the mind" too.

Are you seriously trying to compare physically present abnormally functioning cells to a checklist of symptoms? Cancer is a tangible pathogen, PND diagnosis is a checklist. I have no doubt it's symptoms cause great problems, but it's not a disease of the mind. At least it has not been proven to be. Scientifically speaking, of course.

TheyKnowMyIP

up for anything wrote: »

Is that supposed to be a put down?

No, it's a put up, silly:rolleyes:

Abi

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

If you won't engage in the discussion without a working knowledge of the topic being discussed, one should refrain from the discussion imo.

A working knowledge of PND? You've completely slated anyone who who has said they were sufferers or have suffered with it. I was posting back and forth with you last night, but I could plainly see you were not in it to hear anyone elses points. You've the highest amount of posts in this thread by a mile, and all you're basically doing is shooting everyone down without hearing them out. Your attitude is more or less "shut up you don't know what you're talking about, only I do", when it couldn't be further from the truth.

Without sufficient evidence, none of the opinions here to the contrary hold much value.

Even the sufferers apparently.

I feel like banging my head agaisnt a wall:pac:

I wish you would, anyone who has replied to you feels exactly the same.

Quite frankly, it might actually knock some sense in. Other peoples posts count, not just your own.

Micky Dolenz

Taking the piss of such a sensitive issue is mean. Expect to be infacted/banned.

Dudess

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Oh god, After Hours is not the place for this OP, not if you are looking for mature, well thought-out responses.

It often can be. As I'm sure you'd agree re posts you like. Plenty of mature, well-thought-out responses on this thread.

All you'll get here is arguments and childish jibes.

It's not all you'll get.

Guys why all the anger?

The OP makes the point that PND is a form of depression and that what the mother suffering with it is depressed about is being a mother.

I fail to see the problem with that tbh.

The OP stated that this was fact - they did not specify that it was just an idea of theirs, or even attempt to back it up. Whereas scientific research supports that post natal depression is a very specific type of depression, related to hormonal changes, unlike the depression that could ensue as a result of the trials of parenting an infant. The OP is telling women with PND that they regret becoming a parent and were only trying to fit into society etc. Arrogant, no? Seems like projecting.
If you have an idea about something, shoot, but don't present it as fact and not bother to back it up, especially in relation to such a sensitive subject. The OP is always posting stuff to rile so they're not that innocent and wounded - I wouldn't worry about their poor sensitive little soul. And they said to someone here that her pre-natal depression was all in her head. You've got the wrong end of the stick here if you think this is a mere case of ganging up.

TheyKnowMyIP

Abi wrote: »

A working knowledge of PND? You've completely slated anyone who who has said they were sufferers or have suffered with it. I was posting back and forth with you last night, but I could plainly see you were not in it to hear anyone elses points. You've the highest amount of posts in this thread by a mile, and all you're basically doing is shooting everyone down without hearing them out. Your attitude is more or less "shut up you don't know what you're talking about, only I do", when it couldn't be further from the truth.

A working knowledge of the lack of evidence for the biological basis for PND. That is what I was referring to. No doubt mothers suffer terribly from this descriptive condition, but I question the validity of PND as a disease that requires drugs to correct a biochemical imbalance.

Abi wrote: »

Even the sufferers apparently.

Sufferers are operating mostly on the basis of opinion. Opinion is nothing but noise to my ears. I avoid it completely wherever possible.

Abi wrote: »

I wish you would, anyone who has replied to you feels exactly the same.

Quite frankly, it might actually knock some sense in. Other peoples posts count, not just your own.

Why not try to discredit my arguments though? Nobody else has really stood up and stated that PND is not the result of a biochemical imbalance in the brain. Without sufficient evidence for the causes, who is to say with absolute conviction that it is a disease of the mind? This diagnosis could just be another label for the insurance companies to thrive from.

Mickeroo

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

No it's not. A theory is unsubstantiated by evidence. I am not the one making the claim that depression is the result of a chemical imbalance. My assertion is not a theory, it's a scientific fact that Depression by current scientific standards, is not the result of a biochemical imbalance in the brain. Simple to understand given the lack of evidence.

Of course it helps my case! The article linked throws around the word "theory" far too often for my liking. Even the author is stating it's a "theory". How does that bode for simple minded folk like myself? The doctors ain't giving you the full truth about these drugs. This evidence is indicative of this.

Why are mind altering drugs being prescribed on little more than "a theory" about how the brain is depressed from the result of a serotonic deficiency. Like I said, I call bull****.

I'm not a agreeing or disagreeing with you as I haven't read the thread properly but it's pretty funny that you harp on about scienctific fact yet show a complete misunderstanding of the word "theory" when used in scientific terms.

That is all. :pac:

TheyKnowMyIP

Mickeroo wrote: »

I'm not a agreeing or disagreeing with you as I haven't read the thread properly but it's pretty funny that you harp on about scienctific fact yet show a complete misunderstanding of the word "theory" when used in scientific terms.

That is all. :pac:

The entire concept of science relies on ongoing knowledge. Theories come and go. It's are the ones that are substantiated that stick around. What is the problem, exactly? Theories vary. I accept that.

Abi

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Opinion is nothing but noise to my ears. I avoid it completely wherever possible.



Why not try to discredit my arguments though?

I'm not going to bother answering the rest of your post, just read above and with any luck you will understand why.

Mickeroo

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

The entire concept of science relies on ongoing knowledge. Theories come and go. It's are the ones that are substantiated that stick around. What is the problem, exactly? Theories vary. I accept that.

Scientific theories by definition are substantiated by evidence.

StudentDad

OP - As a man who has watched his wife go through PND your stance is insulting and wrong. Post Natal Depression is something some women go through - some better - some worse - it all depends on how it's handled.

SD

TheyKnowMyIP

Abi wrote: »

I'm not going to bother answering the rest of your post, just read above and with any luck you will understand why.

Seems reasonable to those who claim PND is a disease of serotonic deficiency. Why should I accept it's a disease given a total lack of evidence to suggest that this hypothesis is in fact true?

Do you think PND requires the prescription of drugs to "cure"? Why not supervise someone in that state in a place like Pieta House? When you are in a state like that, I would imagine psychotropic drugs are the last thing you would want.

Micky Dolenz

Kaneda banned for trolling.

Micky Dolenz

3ndahalfof6 banned for trolling.

TheyKnowMyIP

Mickeroo wrote: »

Scientific theories by definition are substantiated by evidence.

That does not mean they are always correct. Science does not claim to accept a theory as an absolute. It's a step in the right direction. The chemical imbalance theory is a hypothesis, not a theory.

steddyeddy

The argument over the reasons for PND and the arguement over the existence of PND are totally different arguements anyway.

TheyKnowMyIP

steddyeddy wrote: »

The argument over the reasons for PND and the arguement over the existence of PND are totally different arguements anyway.

True. For that reason, I will feck off. These are seperate arguments. Everybody sigh collectively. Mickeroo is 100% correct though. I confused the two terms. I am correct by stating that the Biological chemical imbalance theory of post natal depression as substantiated by Psychiatrists remains as nothing more than a hypothesis.

If this thread is simply about the experience of post natal depression, I am going OT. Where is that ban now?:pac: I don't have all the answers. I am not happy with just accepting everything as it is though, you have to give me credit for that.

TheyKnowMyIP

steddyeddy wrote: »

The argument over the reasons for PND and the arguement over the existence of PND are totally different arguements anyway.

In that case, the OP is full of ****. PND is a real experience, not a biochemical imbalance of neurotransmitters in the brain. That is essentially what I have been raging about over the last several pages.

How would I know about the experience anyway? I don't intend on ever having children. Feck that with a bargepole.

Giselle

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I don't have all the answers. I am not happy with just accepting everything as it is though, you have to give me credit for that.

Your style of debate is the polar opposite of open discussion, which requires an open mind. You get no credit for posting as though anyone who disagrees or even questions your stance is simply wrong.