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Starting a wine cellar

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13

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    #62
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    In a funny twist, the popular perception that French wine is of poor quality and overpriced is so pervasive .....

    Eh? We live in different worlds Johnny. :confused:


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    #63
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    As I say for many wines screwcaps are fine but laying down such wines is a triumph of optimism (and marketing) over reality.

    I simply do not believe this to be true and I have no doubt that time will prove me right! Modern screwcaps, just like corks, allow tiny amounts of gas transferral. Some interesting reading here.

    It is very like the reluctance to believe that good quality beer can come in cans and can age just as well in cans as it can in bottles. There is such a strong association with cheap mass produced beer and cans that people can't make the mindshift. The same is true for wines and screwcaps.


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    #64
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    the beer revolu wrote: »
    Some interesting reading here.

    You're offering me a wine writer arguing with the Daily Mail? :rolleyes: Ah now...

    Anyway, my comments were specifically in relation to €7.50 wines being bought in a supermarket for laying down. The standard of screwtops being used here will not be "screwcaps with liners allowing different oxygen transmission rates".


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    #65
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    You're offering me a wine writer arguing with the Daily Mail? :rolleyes: Ah now...

    Anyway, my comments were specifically in relation to €7.50 wines being bought in a supermarket for laying down. The standard of screwtops being used here will not be "screwcaps with liners allowing different oxygen transmission rates".
    A simple rule of thumb... if the wine has a screwtop not even the maker thinks it's going to improve with age!
    ??

    Also, that is a multi buy sale price of €7.50 - normally retails @ €17 - and it genuinely does retail at that price.

    This must be getting rather tiresome for everyone else. Lets agree to differ and see what the future reveals, shall we?;)


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    #66
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    the beer revolu wrote: »
    Also, that is a multi buy sale price of €7.50 - normally retails @ €17 - and it genuinely does retail at that price.
    Ah now, I'm sure you know the way supermarket pricing works. They're not making a loss @ €7.50.


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    #67
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    In a funny twist, the popular perception that French wine is of poor quality and overpriced is so pervasive .....

    Eh? We live in different worlds Johnny. :confused:

    Yeah, you live in the world of making a profit from selling wine. You can get a cheaper, better quality claret than a new world red these days, but in most specialist wine shops they will sing the praises of a mediocre, overpriced new world over a French wine in my experience.


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    #68
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    ... in most specialist wine shops they will sing the praises of a mediocre, overpriced new world over a French wine in my experience.
    I'm guessing because they are getting better margins on the New World wines. I sell both but, for me, French wine is still the most complex and interesting. At the €9.99 mark I'd have great wines from all over. It's entirely subjective what people like.


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    #69
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    ... in most specialist wine shops they will sing the praises of a mediocre, overpriced new world over a French wine in my experience.
    I'm guessing because they are getting better margins on the New World wines. I sell both but, for me, French wine is still the most complex and interesting. At the €9.99 mark I'd have great wines from all over. It's entirely subjective what people like.

    Absolutely, but that doesn't mean that there aren't discernable patterns and trends in wine, and at the moment there seems to be a perception that new world wines are better and cheaper, which I do not agree with.


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    #70
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    ..... at the moment there seems to be a perception that new world wines are better and cheaper, which I do not agree with.

    Nor I, but I haven't come across that perception at all, quite the opposite. Perhaps it's the type of shop I have.


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    #71
    duckworth
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭duckworth


    I haven't had time to go through the whole thread - but I have to say this - Screwcap wines are not completely airtight. The wine still breathes enough to age. Plenty of expensive wines intended for aging are being made with screwcaps, and particularly Australian and New Zealand ones.

    Slaphead - I'm also interested as to why you think its worthless to age a Semillion? I'd point to the 2005 McWilliams Mount Pleasant Elizabeth as an example of a great semillion that has seen a couple of years of bottle aging, and is fantastic because of it. Robert Parker suggests drinking between now and 2020.

    Why do you rubbish my point about the Tim Adams?


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    #72
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    duckworth wrote: »
    Slaphead - I'm also interested as to why you think its worthless to age a Semillion? I'd point to the 2005 McWilliams Mount Pleasant Elizabeth as an example of a great semillion that has seen a couple of years of bottle aging, and is fantastic because of it. Robert Parker suggests drinking between now and 2020.
    What I said was that you need to carefully chose wine (red or white) for a cellar. I don't think Tim Adams is the same as a 2005 McWilliams Mount Pleasant Elizabeth.


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    #73
    duckworth
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭duckworth


    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    What I said was that you need to carefully chose wine (red or white) for a cellar.

    What you said was there is no point in cellaring the Semillion - and I was asking why.

    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    I don't think Tim Adams is the same as a 2005 McWilliams Mount Pleasant Elizabeth.

    I don't get your point here - I used the McWilliams as an example of a similar wine in the same price range, the same grape variety, with the same closure, that has benefitted greatly from aging.

    Why do you say they are 'not the same'. Are you saying the Tim Adams wine is not as good quality as the McWilliams?


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    #74
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    duckworth wrote: »
    I used the McWilliams as an example of a similar wine in the same price range, the same grape variety, with the same closure, that has benefitted greatly from aging.

    that doesn't mean other "similar" wines will behave the same. To be honest I think that's a very liberal use of the word "greatly" there.

    I really don't care what you buy for your cellar but I do care that another poster might think it's a great idea to buy do this too. I don't agree and was expressing that view. It's entirely subjective. If you believe that wine will improve then go for it.


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    #75
    duckworth
    Registered Users Posts: 274 ✭✭duckworth


    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    that doesn't mean other "similar" wines will behave the same. To be honest I think that's a very liberal use of the word "greatly" there.

    I really don't care what you buy for your cellar but I do care that another poster might think it's a great idea to buy do this too. I don't agree and was expressing that view. It's entirely subjective. If you believe that wine will improve then go for it.


    Somebody mentioned a Tim Adams wine, and I jumped in to say I thought the whites were particularly good - and may even be good for aging. I'm simply disputing your dismissal that "there is no point whatsoever in cellaring that semillion".

    Are you even familiar with Tim Adam's wines? You seem to be indicating they are some kind of generic crap because they come from a supermarket. Plenty of wine writers hold his wines in high regard - by coincidence, he came to visit Ireland last week.

    Try one, you'll see.


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    #76
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    duckworth wrote: »
    You seem to be indicating they are some kind of generic crap because they come from a supermarket.

    I never said that. In my opinion it won't age well. That is all.


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    #77
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    duckworth wrote: »
    You seem to be indicating they are some kind of generic crap because they come from a supermarket.

    I never said that. In my opinion it won't age well. That is all.

    Again, why not? If it's not that you've tried to age this particular wine, then what factors in your view suggest that it won't age well?


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    #78
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    I've stated my reasons several times already. I'm not going to go around in circles on this.


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    #79
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    I've stated my reasons several times already. I'm not going to go around in circles on this.

    No you haven't. When asked if you thought semillion wouldn't age you said no it's not that. When you said screw caps can't age and it was pointed out that some can, you maintained your position. You seeme to be suggesting that because it is cheaply available in a supermarket but you then denied that was your view, and when other people ommented on this specific wine you haven't said anything to the contrary about this specific wine.

    So a bit of clarity as to what it is about this specific wine that tells you it will not age would be much appreciated.


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    #80
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    I'm not going to comment on a specific wine. End of.

    I couldn't have been clearer on my views on screwcaps. To repeat.... cheap ones seal the wine in = no ageing. A €7.50 bottle will have a cheap screwcap so no point in aging.


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    #81
    puffishoes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 690 ✭✭✭puffishoes


    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    I'm not going to comment on a specific wine. End of.

    To be fair to Johnny, you have all ready have stated your position on a specific wine. it's your position on that wine that's been asked to be clarified .

    I think at this point everyone would appreciate some clarification. As you're someone who is in the business and I imagine your aim here was for some education but it seems you have caused more confusion that clarity.


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    #82
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    puffishoes wrote: »
    .... you have all ready have stated your position on a specific wine. it's your position on that wine that's been asked to be clarified ...
    What?:confused:


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    #83
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    What?:confused:

    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    There is no point whatsoever in putting that semillion in a wine cellar. The Reisling maybe but I seriously doubt it. Keep the space for something worthwhile.

    there you go!
    remember now?


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    #84
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    the beer revolu wrote: »
    there you go!
    remember now?

    My comment was about the grape variety, at that price range, from such a mainstream source. Not the wine itself.

    I wrote a lengthy post a while ago on my thoughts on cellaring main steam wines and why it's not a good idea. I think it's pretty clear. I don't expect people to agree but some of this is very defensive.


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    #85
    mikep
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭mikep


    Wow! Things are getting heated around here...

    here are my thoughts...

    It's wrong to suggest semillon won't age, Tyrrels Vat 1 is a legendary example. As previously mentioned the McWilliams Elizabeth is a great example as is the Tim Adams, oh wait these are available in supermarkets so must be crap....

    On screwcaps Ch. Margaux are experimenting with screwcaps and report good results and will probably go that route eventually, I have left screwcaps age for a number of years and there IS as difference, ageing does happen....

    On my stash we had the Lilian Ladouys 2006 last night..drinking nicely now but would benefit from a few more years put away. Available from Lidl still...

    Probably won't be adding to my stock for a while but will update if we drink any more.


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    #86
    the beer revolu
    Registered Users Posts: 16,833 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    mikep wrote: »

    On screwcaps Ch. Margaux are experimenting with screwcaps and report good results and will probably go that route eventually, I have left screwcaps age for a number of years and there IS as difference, ageing does happen....

    but only if they're not bought in a supermarket!
    Haven't you been listening!!!??;)


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    #87
    Slaphead07
    Registered Users Posts: 2,323 ✭✭✭Slaphead07


    As these responses are based entirely on misquotes and misinterpretations, either intentional or otherwise, I really can’t respond. As I’ve said consistently, it’s all subjective, Enjoy your choices. G'night.


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    #88
    puffishoes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 690 ✭✭✭puffishoes


    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    There is no point whatsoever in putting that semillion in a wine cellar. The Reisling maybe but I seriously doubt it. Keep the space for something worthwhile.
    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    I was addressing a post on that specific wine.
    Slaphead07 wrote: »
    What I said was that you need to carefully chose wine (red or white) for a cellar. I don't think Tim Adams is the same as a 2005 McWilliams Mount Pleasant Elizabeth.

    Maybe you can enlighten us in _why_ that specific wine won't age well.
    I would have assumed people asking for your educated opinion being in the business is one of the great things about being in the business in the first place.

    So can you answer the original question?


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    #89
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    To lighten the mood somewhat, my last two additions were a 2008 ch franc petit figeac and a 2005 ch lanessan. I suppose the trick is learning how not to drink them.


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    #90
    afatbollix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,047 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    Does anyone think we should start again with a title of your wine collection, of drinking wine.

    And have rules like no talking of screw caps.Just keep it to banter about what wines we are drinking that week or month?


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    #91
    zac8
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭zac8


    johnnyskeleton wrote: »
    2008 ch franc petit figeac

    Have you tried this yet? I see it's on sale at 16.99 in O'Briens.


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