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The Grapevine (OFF TOPIC CHAT) Part II
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Btw I've not really looked through the nutribullet recipe book (because it's all in dutch) but I glanced through Tars and theres a load of rubbish health scaremongering telling you pepper is bad and all vinegars are bad etc, personally I don't pay any attention to that stuff, it's just a good powerful blender/juicer.
For the metalheads :P
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Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 78,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭
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I don't know if this will be of help to anyone, but I find spirulina absolutely superb. I started taking it in 2009 when I was recovering from swine flu and all the antibiotics I'd been prescribed for it (useless for viral infections, but there you go - I had a very high temperature for four weeks, and such a horrid, horrid cough my voice was very hoarse for the following six months). I was completely run down, to the point that I'd start a sentence and I'd be unable to finish it, my brain was in total meltdown. The lovely lady in my local health shop recommended spirulina, two tablets 3 times a day; six tablets seemed a lot, but once I read more about it I realised I was perfectly safe. I didn't notice anything at all for nearly two weeks, but then suddenly on the fourteenth day something in my brain went a very loud 'PINNNNG!' and I felt wonderful and full of energy again. For me it was like someone had turn a light swich on in my head. Not only could I finish sentences, I actually knew what I was talking about! After that, I started recommending it to everyone, to the point that my friends asked if I was had shares* in it...
It's excellent stuff, if anyone is looking for a supplement, I'd definitely say give it a go, you won't look back. Just look for the 100% ones, some supplements have other bulking ingredients too.
*No, I don't have any spirulina shares, in case anyone was wondering
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anybody watch wayward pines? Just did 3 episodes so far, pretty good
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Have any of you ever experienced periods of time where you were quite disillusioned with being vegan/vegetarian?
I'm just gone three years vegetarian, slowly starting to replace the small amount of milk I consume with alternatives too.
I've been having a hard time with it the past week or so. I went for a meal, had the only starter and main available and tbh it was all crap. I'm fed up of many restaurants having fusilli feckin pasta as the only option, if any, and charging nearly 20 quid for it. I can be quite awkward and anxious sometimes anyway, but throw in being the only vegetarian out of all your family, friends, colleagues.. I hate bringing it up, the reaction is never good, I've even been called a "dyke" for it before
there's a work BBQ on soon and I highly doubt I'll go because of it. Holidays have been an issue too.
And I'm not even vegan! Sigh. I'll probably be over it in a few days, but for now I'm frustrated
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It sounds like what you need is some vegetarian friends
"Just don't hang out/go to eat with those sorts of people" seems like a blunt and probably useless answer especially when they're your family/work colleagues and there's not so much you can do about it. But making a conscious effort to meet more like minded people would probably help with your disillusionment, feeling that way is totally expected when being a vegetarian is nothing but a burden/something to be picked on for (no matter how jokingly). Being around people who I know feel the same way even if we never speak about it and getting to eat out at vegetarian places is fun I suppose and keeps me interested. 0 -
I know at least Tar on here anyway has read some of Peter Singer's books, wondering if anybody is familiar with Gary Francione's stuff? He's pretty similar an academic and has been vegan himself for ~35 years now, but is known for his more hardline and uncompromising interpretation of abolitionism.
Any opinions? Pick a side?
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,115 Mod ✭✭✭✭
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Weather is pretty ****, feels like there is no summerLevel 5 Vegan wrote: »I know at least Tar on here anyway has read some of Peter Singer's books, wondering if anybody is familiar with Gary Francione's stuff? He's pretty similar an academic and has been vegan himself for ~35 years now, but is known for his more hardline and uncompromising interpretation of abolitionism.
Any opinions? Pick a side?
That would take me a long time to write about, basically he is too vitriolic for a lot of people and ends up putting people off veganism with no understanding for psychology. He is obviously very intelligent and cares about animals but if something does not adhere to his ideology (as good and correct sounding black/white that it is) he would never consider it, even if his way did more harm than good. As Peter Singer said, "I think it's a real pity that people waste so much of their time and energy on attacking others within the animal movement." instead of working for the animals. http://veganstrategist.org/2015/07/28/gary-francione-vs-the-vegan-society/ He is like gary yourofsky with evangelical zeal that most people get past after their youth, they are filled with anger and can't see past it. Veganism stems from empathy and compassion, but you can't tell it from some people.
For example welfare reform has been shown to damage the meat industry, costing them millions per year, reducing meat eaten but he would never think, hey maybe this is a valid strategy towards my goal, and it also saves animals right now while we work towards abolition. (Another point on this is that it's been shown that behaviour affects attitude, the less meat people eat the more likely they are to be open to changing their ways, when people stop eating meat for even health reasons they are less invested in meat and adopt the ethical reasons frequently) He would just say we should not be improving conditions of torture it's just torture, that's very simple minded imo. What matters is effective activism. He believes purity is more important than effectiveness, does the animal care why it is not being killed? That it was a vegan that did it or <celeb non-vegan>? There are a lot of people researching effective activism now, and the results are often counter-intuitive, I imagine people do not like to think that somebody could do more for animals and not be vegan than somebody who is vegan and does little else.
The meat industry in the US have a big map of animal rights organisations and people to be afraid of, how they are interrelated, how damaging they could be - which realistically will lower consumption of meat - Francione and other abolitionists make no appearance on it at all. Even Beyonce and Ricky Gervais would be more to fear in their eyes.
Now I imagine this is very emotive for people because like most vegans I too would have agreed with Francione at one point when I was younger and can see how people fall on either side of the debate, especially when his side sounds so good, that this is whats right, we can only accept 100% from everybody, immediately. No realism there for me.
I love this guys blog:
http://veganstrategist.org/2015/05/14/veganer-than-thou/
http://veganstrategist.org/2015/07/04/who-are-the-real-vegans/
http://veganstrategist.org/2015/07/09/on-criticizing-other-activists-and-organisations/
etc
This is actually the tiny short version of what I'd like to say
I'm jsut nitpicking, I should repent and say 10 hail franciones. 
This isn't really for the off topic thread anyway heh
I saw google were trying to buy a vegan burger company. Mmm google burgers.0 -
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Tar.Aldarion wrote: »Weather is pretty ****, feels like there is no summer
That would take me a long time to write about, basically he is too vitriolic for a lot of people and ends up putting people off veganism with no understanding for psychology. He is obviously very intelligent and cares about animals but if something does not adhere to his ideology (as good and correct sounding black/white that it is) he would never consider it, even if his way did more harm than good. As Peter Singer said, "I think it's a real pity that people waste so much of their time and energy on attacking others within the animal movement." instead of working for the animals. http://veganstrategist.org/2015/07/28/gary-francione-vs-the-vegan-society/ He is like gary yourofsky with evangelical zeal that most people get past after their youth, they are filled with anger and can't see past it. Veganism stems from empathy and compassion, but you can't tell it from some people.
For example welfare reform has been shown to damage the meat industry, costing them millions per year, reducing meat eaten but he would never think, hey maybe this is a valid strategy towards my goal, and it also saves animals right now while we work towards abolition. (Another point on this is that it's been shown that behaviour affects attitude, the less meat people eat the more likely they are to be open to changing their ways, when people stop eating meat for even health reasons they are less invested in meat and adopt the ethical reasons frequently) He would just say we should not be improving conditions of torture it's just torture, that's very simple minded imo. What matters is effective activism. He believes purity is more important than effectiveness, does the animal care why it is not being killed? That it was a vegan that did it or <celeb non-vegan>? There are a lot of people researching effective activism now, and the results are often counter-intuitive, I imagine people do not like to think that somebody could do more for animals and not be vegan than somebody who is vegan and does little else.
The meat industry in the US have a big map of animal rights organisations and people to be afraid of, how they are interrelated, how damaging they could be - which realistically will lower consumption of meat - Francione and other abolitionists make no appearance on it at all. Even Beyonce and Ricky Gervais would be more to fear in their eyes.
Now I imagine this is very emotive for people because like most vegans I too would have agreed with Francione at one point when I was younger and can see how people fall on either side of the debate, especially when his side sounds so good, that this is whats right, we can only accept 100% from everybody, immediately. No realism there for me.
I love this guys blog:
http://veganstrategist.org/2015/05/14/veganer-than-thou/
http://veganstrategist.org/2015/07/04/who-are-the-real-vegans/
http://veganstrategist.org/2015/07/09/on-criticizing-other-activists-and-organisations/
etc
This is actually the tiny short version of what I'd like to say I'm jsut nitpicking, I should repent and say 10 hail franciones.
This isn't really for the off topic thread anyway heh
I saw google were trying to buy a vegan burger company. Mmm google burgers.
Yeah you're right. I appreciate a lot of what he says but he's also pretty unlikable too, comes across as someone who gets off on his own 'vitriol'
I'd love a burger too now but I'm completely giving up on trying to eat out ever again, first attempt since the Govindas' fiasco and I headed all the way out to Sova on Monday from town completely oblivious to them being closed -_- There's no hope for me.0 -
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