Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

Iago

I'm very surprised by this to be honest. I think the FA have made a massive rod for their backs and it'll come back to haunt them.

Expect Liverpool to appeal and be successful, ban will be reduced to 3-5 games on the basis that there was a cultural difference and deep remorse on the part of Suarez and a warning as to his future behaviour.

citytillidie

kryogen wrote: »

We could be waiting a while, I assume this is now a police matter so all evidence will be turned over to them rather then for public consumption

Would a police investigation not have taken more of a front seat than an FA investigation just like the John Terry case

willmunny1990

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Evra if anything has done the sport a service. He spoke up, told the truth and fought for justice.

8 game ban is not a light ban, it will put other would be abusers off, the fact Suarez was made an example of will go a long way to drumming in the fact racism can or will not be tolerated in this sport

Should be interesting to hear your take on your captain Terry's case so.

eigrod

ilovelamp2000 wrote: »

I meant the Henry Winter article in the second line !

The journalists knew no more than you or I. It went from "negrito" to "negro" and back to "negrito" again. Nobody knew.

Handsome Bob

spockety wrote: »

Liverpool should tell all their players that it is squeaky bum until the end of the season in terms of how they conduct themselves on the pitch, that they are pretty much not allowed to open their mouths on the field. They should take every single piece of abuse that gets thrown at them in every match (as is part and parcel of every single match from most players), and report every single piece of foul language or abuse that is said towards their players. Every, single, word.

Or.......we could just get Bellamy to be our spokesperson for handing out abuse, he seems pretty good at it and avoiding punishment. :pac:

Turtyturd

spockety wrote: »

Liverpool should tell all their players that it is squeaky bum until the end of the season in terms of how they conduct themselves on the pitch, that they are pretty much not allowed to open their mouths on the field. They should take every single piece of abuse that gets thrown at them in every match (as is part and parcel of every single match from most players), and report every single piece of foul language or abuse that is said towards their players. Every, single, word.

Wish that phrase would disappear.

ThunbergsAreGo

certainly no more credible than his prior unfounded accusations.

No reference to racial accusations here, wonder is that important...

Iago

Iago wrote: »

I'm very surprised by this to be honest. I think the FA have made a massive rod for their backs and it'll come back to haunt them.

Expect Liverpool to appeal and be successful, ban will be reduced to 3-5 games on the basis that there was a cultural difference and deep remorse on the part of Suarez and a warning as to his future behaviour.

This is what I think will happen too tbh.

manual_man

willmunny1990 wrote: »

Crazy Horse 6 wrote: »

Disgusting if true, everyone wants Evra to continue his form for United of recent for the coming years :pac:

Evra if anything has done the sport a service. He spoke up, told the truth and fought for justice.

8 game ban is not a light ban, it will put other would be abusers off, the fact Suarez was made an example of will go a long way to drumming in the fact racism can or will not be tolerated in this sport

Whats your problem, white man

ilovelamp2000

eigrod wrote: »

The journalists knew no more than you or I. It went from "negrito" to "negro" and back to "negrito" again. Nobody knew.

Half of what Henry Winter said has been repeated in the LFC statement.

he was spot on.

The other half is incriminating btw, which is why we've made no reference to it in our statement

Technique

Iago wrote: »

I'm very surprised by this to be honest. I think the FA have made a massive rod for their backs and it'll come back to haunt them.

Expect Liverpool to appeal and be successful, ban will be reduced to 3-5 games on the basis that there was a cultural difference and deep remorse on the part of Suarez and a warning as to his future behaviour.

Also, it's partly Evra's fault for being black. I mean, this isn't the first time he's been black. He has a history of being black. What was Suarez supposed to do??

Crazy Horse 6

spockety wrote: »

Liverpool should tell all their players that it is squeaky bum until the end of the season in terms of how they conduct themselves on the pitch, that they are pretty much not allowed to open their mouths on the field. They should take every single piece of abuse that gets thrown at them in every match (as is part and parcel of every single match from most players), and report every single piece of foul language or abuse that is said towards their players. Every, single, word.

I can actually see this happening, i'm just glad Kenny is our manager and not Hodgson as we won't take this BS lying down.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

Nope the FA have said they're gonna publish all findings.

The police will have no involvement in this.

Strange, would have thought they would be involved now he has been found guilty, happy enough with that myself though, oddly I dont think he should face any punishment from outside the sport for the matter

Good to hear also cause I will be interested myself to read the exact evidence used to find him guilty

ThunbergsAreGo

Id love if the above happened

Handsome Bob

I can see Kenny making a few journos **** their pants in his next interview/press conference.

citytillidie

King Kenny on it

Kenneth Dalglish @kennethdalglish Close
Very disappointed with today's verdict. This is the time when @luis16suarez needs our full support. Let's not let him walk alone. KD

stumpypeeps

When Luis Suarez joined Liverpool at the start of the year I wrote that he had the ability to shine in the Premier League but also that his fiery temperament would be put to the test.

He has given us more than I bargained for. An instant Anfield sensation, his exploits for Uruguay make Suarez beyond doubt the outstanding player in the world this year in terms of national team football.

In England, as expected, he has become the Liverpool player least likely to be popular with opposing fans but he has exceeded his own reputation for controversy with the flare-up with Patrice Evra and the charge of racism.


Suarez stunner ends South Korean hopes
When Suarez pulls on the sky blue shirt of his country he is part of a national team which has an unrivalled record of giving opportunities to afro-descendants. In the face of protests from their opponents, Uruguay picked black players in the first Copa America in 1916.

Probably the most revered figure in the history of Uruguayan football is Obdulio Varela, captain of the side that won the World Cup in 1950. His nickname was "El Negro Jefe" - the black boss.

Among Suarez's team-mates these days is Maxi Pereira, who is known as "El Mono" - the monkey. It is a nickname which, apparently, is given and accepted with no offence meant or taken. It appears to be used in the same spirit that Alvaro Fernandez is called "El Flaco", which means skinny.


Among Suarez's team-mates these days is Maxi Pereira, who is known as "El Mono" - the monkey. It is a nickname which, apparently, is given and accepted with no offence meant or taken

These words are not easy - perhaps almost impossible - to translate into a contemporary English context. How do you judge the weight of a word uttered in a foreign language from a different mindset?

When Mick Jagger wailed "Hey Negrita" on the Rolling Stones song, his words were surely intended in praise. If it is true that Suarez used a similar word to address Evra, this would not seem to be the case.

But how to know when this word ceases to be descriptive and becomes pejorative? And for the FA disciplinary committee, how to avoid kicking the case around like a political football?

Suarez has provided them with a problem - but also with an opportunity.

Context is crucial, not just in what Suarez may have done, but also in how it is judged. When Sepp Blatter apologised for appearing to suggest racist remarks could be overcome with a handshake, it gave English football another chance to indulge in Fifa-bashing.

There must be a temptation to throw the book at Suarez and send a strong anti-racist message to the world.


Suarez sent off for handling on the line
When moral panic is whipped up, coherence tends to fly out of the window. Some of those calling for Blatter's head on the racism issue are the very people who believed that everything was fine with Fifa while Sir Stanley Rous of England was in charge from 1961 to 1974.

Rous seriously damaged the development of African football with his defence of Apartheid in South Africa - a stance which looked awful at the time and was disastrous in hindsight.

In his campaign to unseat Rous in 1974, Brazilian Joao Havelange made a point of showing physical intimacy with the African delegates. An Englishman, he reasoned, would not do the same.

Thankfully England is much-changed since then.

English football can be proud of its anti-racism work but it should be remembered that what has happened in our country is a domestic dynamic. Mass immigration starting in the 1950s brought in hundreds of thousands of newcomers with full political rights - and so the discrimination they suffered could only be put down to racism.


Football made this sickeningly obvious. The Caribbean descendants who started to make an impact on the pitch from the late 1960s had to put up with all kinds of abuse. Over time a consensus formed around the belief that racist behaviour was unacceptable.

This dynamic does not necessarily apply elsewhere. In South America the legacy of centuries of slavery can make attitudes towards race more entrenched - but also more subtle. Elsewhere, to the east of Europe, for example, there has been very little exposure to the kind of multi-cultural existence that has become the norm in Britain.

This in no way invalidates the anti-racist position of English football. But it does mean that if the debate is to be won - and that surely must be the objective - then there are dangers in the moralistic holier-than-thou approach that the English can be prone to take.

This issue provides a real opportunity for English football to do some good - and also for the Football Association to improve its global profile. Much depends on how it is handled.

There is little to be gained in hectoring other nations and individuals with a moral high ground position of, "We're not racist, you are". Instead, there might be room for a position of leadership with a huge dose of humility.

"This is the problem of racism that we faced in our game," could be the line to football authorities around the world. "This is what we decided to do about it and, although we are nowhere near perfect, we feel we have made a lot of progress. Some of this may be useful to you".

My hope is that any punishment administered to Luis Suarez is guided by this spirit.

Sappy404

kryogen wrote: »

Did he not admit to calling him negro? negrito whichever way you want to word it? pretty sure he did, pretty sure it was discussed earlier in this thread in fact

He admitted to using the inflammatory phrase once (not 10 times as Evra previously claimed) but we don't know what it is. As we understand it, it's a term of endearment, hence Suarez's admission to using it.

There's a great post here about how it's used in South America.

Again, we don't know the evidence for sure. Hopefully it's forthcoming and things will be clearer. The sentence would suggest there's more evidence against him. Liverpool's statement suggests there's not.

#15

DTguardian daniel taylor
Can understand #LFC putting out statement if they believe Suarez is innocent. Fair enough. But *that* statement? Dearie me . .

niallo27

The rest will do him good, he will come back stronger, liverpool fans will love him even more and oppositions fans will hate him more if possible. Everyone is a winner.

Blatter

Iago wrote: »

I'm very surprised by this to be honest. I think the FA have made a massive rod for their backs and it'll come back to haunt them.

Expect Liverpool to appeal and be successful, ban will be reduced to 3-5 games on the basis that there was a cultural difference and deep remorse on the part of Suarez and a warning as to his future behaviour.

I'd be absolutely astonished if the FA backed down in anyway, shape of form from this.

They didn't spend weeks investigating and have an extended verdict process for nothing. They will have explored any possible appeal that Liverpool could make and have made sure that everything is water tight.

They won't be seen to be reducing the ban of a racism charge. Not a chance. If Liverpool are to be successful in eradicating or reducing the ban, they'll almost certainly have to go through another legal avenue IMO.

ConorBF1

Full Statement:

Liverpool Football Club is very surprised and disappointed with the decision of the Football Association Commission to find Luis Suarez guilty of the charges against him.

We look forward to the publication of the Commission's Judgment. We will study the detailed reasons of the Commission once they become available, but reserve our right to appeal or take any other course of action we feel appropriate with regards to this situation.

We find it extraordinary that Luis can be found guilty on the word of Patrice Evra alone when no-one else on the field of play - including Evra's own Manchester United teammates and all the match officials - heard the alleged conversation between the two players in a crowded Kop goalmouth while a corner kick was about to be taken.

The Club takes extremely seriously the fight against all forms of discrimination and has a long and successful track record in work relating to anti-racist activity and social inclusion. We remain committed to this ideal and equality for all, irrespective of a person's background.

LFC considers racism in any form to be unacceptable - without compromise. It is our strong held belief, having gone over the facts of the case, that Luis Suarez did not commit any racist act. It is also our opinion that the accusation by this particular player was not credible - certainly no more credible than his prior unfounded accusations.

It is key to note that Patrice Evra himself in his written statement in this case said 'I don't think that Luis Suarez is racist'. The FA in their opening remarks accepted that Luis Suarez was not racist.

Luis himself is of a mixed race family background as his grandfather was black. He has been personally involved since the 2010 World Cup in a charitable project which uses sport to encourage solidarity amongst people of different backgrounds with the central theme that the colour of a person's skin does not matter; they can all play together as a team.

He has played with black players and mixed with their families whilst with the Uruguay national side and was Captain at Ajax Amsterdam of a team with a proud multi-cultural profile, many of whom became good friends.

It seems incredible to us that a player of mixed heritage should be accused and found guilty in the way he has based on the evidence presented. We do not recognise the way in which Luis Suarez has been characterised.

It appears to us that the FA were determined to bring charges against Luis Suarez, even before interviewing him at the beginning of November. Nothing we have heard in the course of the hearing has changed our view that Luis Suarez is innocent of the charges brought against him and we will provide Luis with whatever support he now needs to clear his name.

We would also like to know when the FA intend to charge Patrice Evra with making abusive remarks to an opponent after he admitted himself in his evidence to insulting Luis Suarez in Spanish in the most objectionable of terms. Luis, to his credit, actually told the FA he had not heard the insult.

GBX

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I can see Kenny making a few journos **** their pants in his next interview/press conference.

If he does them ..

Juniorhurler

CSF wrote: »

Hopefully you get all the thanks you're looking for, it being Christmas after all.

Not interested in thanks. Just think its a ridiculous verdict given that Evra says that he believes that Suarez is not a racist. And a happy Christmas to yourself too CSF.

Leiva

It is amusing with the way some people are taking the FA verdict as if it came from a court of law ."how can you defend Suarez when he has been found guilty etc etc etc "

Lets not forget people that the FA is a privately owned , privately run commercial entity .

Yes they govern the rules of the game of football in England , but they cannot make a ruling of someone being a racist , nor have they .

They said that Suarez broke a rule relating to making offensive remarks etc .

For those of you stating or believe that this now makes Suarez a racist then it's pity you need more than anything .

LFC have the right (and IMO rightly so) to bring this matter to a higher level for a more solid judgment , if even to stop the numpty factor as clearly demonstrated on here of labeling someone a racist and no different than a active member of the KKK .

YouTookMyName

scudzilla wrote: »

Nice piece in The Sun

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4011523/Luis-Suarez-race-row-Liverpool-ace-hit-by-eight-match-ban.html

http://dontbuythesun.co.uk/site/

Technique

stumpypeeps wrote: »

Among Suarez's team-mates these days is Maxi Pereira, who is known as "El Mono" - the monkey. It is a nickname which, apparently, is given and accepted with no offence meant or taken.

The same Maxi Pereira who is, in fact, white.

Crazy Horse 6

niallo27 wrote: »

The rest will do him good, he will come back stronger, liverpool fans will love him even more and oppositions fans will hate him more if possible. Everyone is a winner.

Actually a great point Niallo. He's looked liked he needs a good rest these last few weeks and it should do him the world of good and he'll come back stronger and it should install a decent seige mentality within the club to boot.

#15

Sappy404 wrote: »

There's a great post here about how it's used in South America.

Even more context for that word here.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75475236&postcount=1033

CSF

Juniorhurler wrote: »

Not interested in thanks. Just think its a ridiculous verdict given that Evra says that he believes that Suarez is not a racist. And a happy Christmas to yourself too CSF.

Ah you got 2 mate, fair play to you. Next time tell them that you're actually thinking of becoming a Liverpool fan after the massive injustice that has been sent their way. You could get at least 20.