Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

Melion

baz2009 wrote: »

You're the one that brought up diving in this thread. Nothing for you to be confused about here.

He says there are cameras, which there obviously are. How can he know exactly that a camera can see Suarez's mouth clearly enough for someone to lip read what he says?

BTW, he never said that a particular camera saw it.

you can see him say it

Thats exactly what he said.

Cypher_sounds

Wait! isn't their an ongoing investigation into these allegations...lets not jump the gun here and wait until the outcome of this probe.

#15

Mr Alan wrote: »

There won't be an inconclusive judgement imo.

It'll either be innocent or guilty.

He could be deemed innocent because of insufficient evidence, which is not the same thing as proving that Evra is lying...

Wait, this has been done to death. Never mind.

BERBA

Mr Alan wrote: »

There won't be an inconclusive judgement imo.

It'll either be innocent or guilty.

If Evra is found to have lied (he says it was said at least ten times & it can be seen on the TV cameras), then he should be facing a lengthy ban.

whether suarez is guilty or not , i'd ban him anyway;). He is not a proper role model.

Will I Amnt

Melion wrote: »

I havent read the United superthread in quite a while. I didnt read the match thread after kick-off. And i read the last page of the Liverpool thread.

Is that ok your honour?

Yes that's fine but you probably would have been better off reading them as the topic has been done to death in all 3

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Melion wrote: »

you can see him say it

Thats exactly what he said.

From what angle? Which camera? Evra's not the fúcking camera man.
Perhaps he got a bit lost in translation.

Now that it's both you and Alan here talking yere usual bullshíte I'm out before I get an infraction.

Melion

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Wait! isn't their an ongoing probe into these allegations...lets not jump the gun here and wait until the outcome of this probe.

Thats the reason i started the thread. If the claims around found to be untrue then should Evra face punishment?

And could everyone please notice that i said "Untrue" not "Unproven"

bucketybuck

Melion wrote: »

I havent read the United superthread in quite a while. I didnt read the match thread after kick-off. And i read the last page of the Liverpool thread.

Is that ok your honour?

The posts have now been linked, have you bothered to read them? Assuming you have, will you now formally retract your assertation in the OP that;

"his latest claims are found to be as false as the last time he said someone was being racist towards him?"

Blatter

Mr Alan wrote: »

There won't be an inconclusive judgement imo.

It'll either be innocent or guilty.

If Evra is found to have lied (he says it was said at least ten times & it can be seen on the TV cameras), then he should be facing a lengthy ban.

If he was ''Lying'' when he said the camera picked it up 10 times, it doesn't mean he was lying about the racist abuse he allegedly received. The two statements aren't mutually exclusive, no matter how much you'd like them to be.

Melion

baz2009 wrote: »

From what angle? Which camera? Evra's not the fúcking camera man.
Perhaps he got a bit lost in translation.

Now that it's both you and Alan here talking yere usual bullshíte I'm out before I get an infraction.

He is a french international speaking to a french tv channel. I doubt he got lost in translation considering he was most likely speaking french.

Mr Alan

baz2009 wrote: »

From what angle? Which camera? Evra's not the fúcking camera man.
Perhaps he got a bit lost in translation.

Evra is dealing with someones moral & professional reputation.

He can not afford to be mistaken, to make presumptions, or to get lost in translation.

If he is "mistaken", he should face a lengthy ban for being so frivilous in the accusations he's thrown at Suarez.

#15

Melion wrote: »

I would be fully behind a lengthy ban for Suarez if this turns out to be true. This isnt now and was never intended to be a United-Bashing thread.

Ok, but my point is that it's likely that it will be one person's word against another and it will be impossible to prove either way.

I would support bans for whichever one of them is lying.

But it's impossible to prove.
You can't prove Suarez didn't abuse him on the sly, out of the view of the cameras.
You can't prove Evra just made the whole thing up, unless he admits it.

IMO, the evidence will be inconclusive against Suarez, as it would be against Evra, and everyone will go off believing what they want to believe anyway.

I am fully with you that a lengthy ban is in order for whoever is in the wrong - I just don't think it will be provable either way.

Melion

bucketybuck wrote: »

The posts have now been linked, have you bothered to read them? Assuming you have, will you now formally retract your assertation in the OP that;

"his latest claims are found to be as false as the last time he said someone was being racist towards him?"

I read the one about the Chelsea incident. I still dont see it mentioned anywhere that Evra didnt claim racist abuse. There is something there about Mike Phelan but i didnt understand it.

Didnt even bother with the Steve Finnan link.

Fuhrer

Hilariously really.


One player with a history of scummy behaviour is accused of using racial slurs against another and all the Liverpool fans care about is how to discredit and punish the accuser.

Melion

#15 wrote: »

Ok, but my point is that it's likely that it will be one person's word against another and it will be impossible to prove either way.

I would support bans for whichever one of them is lying.

But it's impossible to prove.
You can't prove Suarez didn't abuse him on the sly.
You can't prove Evra just made the whole thing up.

IMO, the evidence will be inconclusive against Suarez, as it would be against Evra, and everyone will go off believing what they want to believe anyway.

I am fully with you that a lengthy ban is in order for whoever is in the wrong - I just don't think it will be provable either way.

Thats the thing though. Evra has made such a big deal about it and has said the referee is aware and cameras can see Suarez saying it. If he is so sure of this then it will be easy to prove. If a ref heard someone dishing out racist abuse then a red card would have been issued instantly. Even if it happened after the match.

BERBA

Mr Alan wrote: »

Evra is dealing with someones moral & professional reputation.
He can not afford to be mistaken, to make presumptions, or to get lost in translation.

If he is "mistaken", he should face a lengthy ban for being so frivilous in the accusations he's thrown at Suarez.

Suarez wasnt too worried about the millions from Ghana when he decided to play goalkeeper at last world cup. Moral and professional reputation you say:rolleyes:

Melion

Fuhrer wrote: »

Hilariously really.


One player with a history of scummy behaviour is accused of using racial slurs against another and all the Liverpool fans care about is how to discredit and punish the accuser.

Did you miss the posts supporting a lengthy ban for Suarez if its found to be true?

monkey9

Blatter wrote: »

If he was ''Lying'' when he said the camera picked it up 10 times, it doesn't mean he was lying about the racist abuse he allegedly received. The two statements aren't mutually exclusive, no matter how much you'd like them to be.

Maybe not, but then you'd have to question his reliability on the allegations he's made against Suarez in general.

FYG

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I'm a United fan and I don't see the big problem.
When I play football I get called all sorts of names. You just get on with it.
Our manager would even shout for example, "Watch the ginger, watch the ginger on the left" or something like that, and nobody takes any notice.
So being called a N***** in a game is nothing new, and I bet it happens in the league every match.

Racism is not acceptable.

Just because it happens regularly, doesn't mean it's right.

I just don't see how you can possibly think that it isn't a problem?

Mr Alan

BERBA wrote: »

Suarez wasnt too worried about the millions from Ghana when he decided to play goalkeeper at last world cup. Moral and professional reputation you say:rolleyes:

I never understood the big deal about this.

Not now. Not at the time.

He was dead right to do what he did. If he's ever in the same position for Liverpool, I hope he does the same.

It happens fairly regularly in football (a professional foul). The vilification & outrage from the press over it was absolutely hilarious.

In saying that, you even bring this incident, or others talking about diving etc in the same context as racial abuse is totally belittling a very serious topic.

ilovelamp2000

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Wait! isn't their an ongoing investigation into these allegations...lets not jump the gun here and wait until the outcome of this probe.

Yeah we might as well stop talking about which teams are better than others until the league is over too

Carcharodon

TeddyTedson wrote: »

I'm a United fan and I don't see the big problem.
When I play football I get called all sorts of names. You just get on with it.
Our manager would even shout for example, "Watch the ginger, watch the ginger on the left" or something like that, and nobody takes any notice.
So being called a N***** in a game is nothing new, and I bet it happens in the league every match.

You seriously have to be joking, comparing ginger to N*****, I am sure Gingers have suffered the same persecutions and obstacles as black people have over the centuries.
I can agree with there being too much PC around today but there are somethings you just don't say.

Cypher_sounds

Melion wrote: »

Thats the reason i started the thread. If the claims around found to be untrue then should Evra face punishment?

And could everyone please notice that i said "Untrue" not "Unproven"

On such a touchy subject i suggest it was outrageous to start this thread and set the tone by claiming that Evra has wrongly accused someone of racism in the past.

Fuhrer

Melion wrote: »

Did you miss the posts supporting a lengthy ban for Suarez if its found to be true?

No, I was too busy reading the lies and absolute bull**** you were posting about Evra having previously having made false allegations of people being Racist towards him.


I mean, are we just allowed to make stuff up now? Isnt there rules against that on boards.ie?


I guess I could just start lieing too and talk about all Suarez's history of making racial slurs.

bucketybuck

Melion wrote: »

I read the one about the Chelsea incident. I still dont see it mentioned anywhere that Evra didnt claim racist abuse. There is something there about Mike Phelan but i didnt understand it.

Didnt even bother with the Steve Finnan link.

How incredibly disingenuous, this post shows clearly how honestly you have approached this thread. Bolding yours, and below is a quote from the Chelsea incident:

Evra claims he did not hear any racist comments during the incident

Frankly, you are embarrassing yourself here.

Cypher_sounds

ilovelamp2000 wrote: »

Yeah we might as well stop talking about which teams are better than others until the league is over too

Is that currently being investigated by the FA and such a serious claim:rolleyes: ridiculous post.

MUFC are the better than all the rest btw

Mr Alan

Fuhrer wrote: »

No, I was too busy reading the lies and absolute bull**** you were posting about Evra having previously having made false allegations of people being Racist towards him.


I mean, are we just allowed to make stuff up now? Isnt there rules against that on boards.ie?


I guess I could just start lieing too and talk about all Suarez's history of making racial slurs.

In fairness, Evra was involved in an incident where members of MUFC were found to be fabricating statements to try & brand someone a racist.

Its not a difficult mistake to make.

#15

Melion wrote: »

Thats the thing though. Evra has made such a big deal about it and has said the referee is aware and cameras can see Suarez saying it. If he is so sure of this then it will be easy to prove. If a ref heard someone dishing out racist abuse then a red card would have been issued instantly. Even if it happened after the match.

It won't be easy to prove if Suarez just said it into his ear, under his breath.

The ref will only have Evra's word to go on, and the cameras won't have picked it up, no matter what Evra thinks or says about the effectiveness of modern camera technology.

So we're back to the first point. It probably won't be proven either way.

Melion

I mis-read the paragraph in the guardian link. I will gladly remove that from the OP

monkey9

BERBA wrote: »

Suarez wasnt too worried about the millions from Ghana when he decided to play goalkeeper at last world cup. Moral and professional reputation you say:rolleyes:

He wasn't too worried either when he was punished and the Ghana lad missed the peno to put Ghana through :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's f*ck all to do with Suarez being accused of racism though by a player who's been found unreliable by the FA in claims he made before