Occupy Galway Group (mod note added)

Head The Wall

I didn't and still haven't taken out a mortgage to keep a roof over my head and I'm not homeless.

Shakti

Glad to hear it but you can understand why someone might wish to own their own home and take out a mortgage in good faith as a means to achieving this aim. no?

Yatesonskates

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I'm a 66 year old pensioner and I can feel the financial pinch.

You are the problem. All OAPs are the problem, getting the free bus and all. Why do you even want to go on the buses, they smell, but it costs the taxpayer money to run those smelly buses. Plus 66 is to young to retire, life expectancy is getting longer and longer and my generation will probably have to work till we're 80 anyway, so your lot should all go back to work. This will have a double improvement for the economy, more taxes and less social spending on pensions. If you are 66, then you were probably a hippie in the 1960's, I hate hippies, all commies. Plus you probably own a house, as my friend HeadInHisHole said if you own a house or rent a house you are part of the problem. Does your daughter know she is protesting against her father, who does she think she is Luke Skywalker?

So all who own a house or rent a house are part of the problem, what's left? Those living in tents. So the protesters are the only ones not part of the problem. Now about 99% of the population owns a house or rents a house and the tent people are less than 1%, so the protesters are the 1%, so they are protesting against themselves! But although it's cold and rainy out there, they don't have it so bad, the homeless don't even have a tent, so the homeless should be protesting, not the tent people. But the homeless in Ireland don't have it so bad, plenty of rain water and a lot of decent food in the bins, as opposed to those in Ethiopia where there's no water, they'd love to sleep out on a nice soft Irish night. So the Ethiopians should protest. But wait, since the earthquake it's worse in Haiti than Ethiopia, so the Ethiopians have no right protesting and the Haitians should protest.

When I was in school I had a teacher who broke my jaw, I was going to protest, but then I saw he did something worse to a classmate, so I knew I had no right protesting. It's all relative, don't complain about a stubbed toe, or even a broken arm, wait until it kills you, then protest.Why is everyone complaining, things aren't too bad here, wait until things get worse before protesting, when you're dead you can protest to God, unless there's no God, then there's no point in protesting because you'll be dead and it will all be over. So why protest. Just take it, it isn't so bad. I don't care if the bankers take it all and you should all just accept failure and I will protest you if you try to protest anything, you'd think you had freedom of speech or something!!!

Head The Wall

I Understand it perfectly, but unwittingly or not their actions had a part in where we are at the moment. People are trying to blame everyone else for the sh1t the country is in, that's the point I'm trying to get people to understand.

Irishgoatman

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Where were these people last night when someone was getting beaten up in Eyre Square?
As with all these little protest movements i can imagine there are leadership battles within the group, id love to camp out there myself not as part of the protest ad drink lot of beer and see what they say to me, or are they forming there only little clique and wont accept others if they dont accept there rules?
And if they are setting out rules what gives them the right, afterall it is public property there on.

For crying out loud. This has been covered for you.
You can do what you like in Eyre sq. But anyone who wants to join the protest has to agree to abide by the rules that the people have set out.
These rules have been drawn up in order to try to keep things civilised. You only need one person who has taken a load of drink to start to argue with another who has been drinking and anything can happen, can't it.
There are no leadership battles as there is no leadership. They are just working together and they welcome anyone who wants to have a conversation with them about what they hope to achieve. But the want discussions not ill-informed arguments.

Irishgoatman

Yatesonskates wrote: »

You are the problem. All OAPs are the problem, getting the free bus and all. Why do you even want to go on the buses, they smell, but it costs the taxpayer money to run those smelly buses. Plus 66 is to young to retire, life expectancy is getting longer and longer and my generation will probably have to work till we're 80 anyway, so your lot should all go back to work. This will have a double improvement for the economy, more taxes and less social spending on pensions. If you are 66, then you were probably a hippie in the 1960's, I hate hippies, all commies. Plus you probably own a house, as my friend HeadInHisHole said if you own a house or rent a house you are part of the problem. Does your daughter know she is protesting against her father, who does she think she is Luke Skywalker?

So all who own a house or rent a house are part of the problem, what's left? Those living in tents. So the protesters are the only ones not part of the problem. Now about 99% of the population owns a house or rents a house and the tent people are less than 1%, so the protesters are the 1%, so they are protesting against themselves! But although it's cold and rainy out there, they don't have it so bad, the homeless don't even have a tent, so the homeless should be protesting, not the tent people. But the homeless in Ireland don't have it so bad, plenty of rain water and a lot of decent food in the bins, as opposed to those in Ethiopia where there's no water, they'd love to sleep out on a nice soft Irish night. So the Ethiopians should protest. But wait, since the earthquake it's worse in Haiti than Ethiopia, so the Ethiopians have no right protesting and the Haitians should protest.

When I was in school I had a teacher who broke my jaw, I was going to protest, but then I saw he did something worse to a classmate, so I knew I had no right protesting. It's all relative, don't complain about a stubbed toe, or even a broken arm, wait until it kills you, then protest.Why is everyone complaining, things aren't too bad here, wait until things get worse before protesting, when you're dead you can protest to God, unless there's no God, then there's no point in protesting because you'll be dead and it will all be over. So why protest. Just take it, it isn't so bad. I don't care if the bankers take it all and you should all just accept failure and I will protest you if you try to protest anything, you'd think you had freedom of speech or something!!!

I'm not going to bother answering this. I have read the first long, rambling paragraph and find it so insulting that I am surprised that it got past the moderator.

This will probably get me banned from this thread now but why should I, or anyone, have to put up with reading crap like that.

Ramble and rant as much as you like yatesonskates, you are a complete idiot who, by the sound of things should have got a better education.

Head The Wall

Irishgoatman wrote: »

You can do what you like in Eyre sq. But anyone who wants to join the protest has to agree to abide by the rules that the people have set out.

But the want discussions not ill-informed arguments.

I think he has the right to protest about the protest if he wants and their whole demands are an ill informed argument.

Shakti

Sell high buy back low its a fairly simple principle mortgage holders are just product in financial trading 70% of which is alogarithmic (automated by computers). Blaming mortgage holders is like giving out to a cow because your steak is overcooked.
Part of it yes perhaps but to blame? IMO no.

Irishgoatman

Head The Wall wrote: »

I think he has the right to protest about the protest if he wants and their whole demands are an ill informed argument.

Of course he has the right to protest about the protest, I don't recall anyone saying he hasn't.
If anyone thinks their demands are ill-informed, I think they're badly worded, they should have a discussion about them not a rant, and the people there will welcome anyone with a comment to make.

Irishgoatman

Yatesonskates wrote: »

You are the problem. All OAPs are the problem, getting the free bus and all. Why do you even want to go on the buses, they smell, but it costs the taxpayer money to run those smelly buses. Plus 66 is to young to retire, life expectancy is getting longer and longer and my generation will probably have to work till we're 80 anyway, so your lot should all go back to work. This will have a double improvement for the economy, more taxes and less social spending on pensions. If you are 66, then you were probably a hippie in the 1960's, I hate hippies, all commies. Plus you probably own a house, as my friend HeadInHisHole said if you own a house or rent a house you are part of the problem. Does your daughter know she is protesting against her father, who does she think she is Luke Skywalker?

So all who own a house or rent a house are part of the problem, what's left? Those living in tents. So the protesters are the only ones not part of the problem. Now about 99% of the population owns a house or rents a house and the tent people are less than 1%, so the protesters are the 1%, so they are protesting against themselves! But although it's cold and rainy out there, they don't have it so bad, the homeless don't even have a tent, so the homeless should be protesting, not the tent people. But the homeless in Ireland don't have it so bad, plenty of rain water and a lot of decent food in the bins, as opposed to those in Ethiopia where there's no water, they'd love to sleep out on a nice soft Irish night. So the Ethiopians should protest. But wait, since the earthquake it's worse in Haiti than Ethiopia, so the Ethiopians have no right protesting and the Haitians should protest.

When I was in school I had a teacher who broke my jaw, I was going to protest, but then I saw he did something worse to a classmate, so I knew I had no right protesting. It's all relative, don't complain about a stubbed toe, or even a broken arm, wait until it kills you, then protest.Why is everyone complaining, things aren't too bad here, wait until things get worse before protesting, when you're dead you can protest to God, unless there's no God, then there's no point in protesting because you'll be dead and it will all be over. So why protest. Just take it, it isn't so bad. I don't care if the bankers take it all and you should all just accept failure and I will protest you if you try to protest anything, you'd think you had freedom of speech or something!!!

Now that I have calmed down just a little I would like to make one more posting, if the moderator allows me to. And if he doesn't then I won't lose any sleep over it.

You, yatesonskate, say that OAP's are the problem, So obviously you do not plan on living long enough to become one.
You ask why we want to go on "smelly" buses. I haven't been on a bus in years so I will have to assume that you have or how would you know they are "smelly", therefore the buses are there for you not me.
You say that 66 is too young to retire and we should go back to work. What, keep schoolleavers from getting a job? or people with a young family to support?, not sure how that makes sense to anyone with half a brain.
You say that as I was born in the 60's I was probably a hippie and all hippies are commies, oh yes, and you hate hippies. You do not know me and you probably don't know many people who were young in the 60's. If you did you wouldn't make such remarks. I know nothing about you, but I do know that some relatives of yours' would have been young then. Have you made the same remarks to them?.
My Daughter and I see eye to eye on some, but not all, things,but she knows that I respect her right to hold different views.
The reference to Luke Skywalker is meaningless to me. In case you are not aware, that was a character in a fiction film, sorry to tell you this but it was not a real person.

This is in response to your first paragraph.With so much rubbish in it I read no further and have no intention of doing so.

One last thing to say to you: RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE, because it doesn't look as though you respect yourself.

Ficheall

You do realise Yatesonskates is being sarcastic, right?

neaideabh

When I heard about the Occupy Wall street movement I had high hopes about it and that it would reach out and get the attention of the people (ie: normal hardworking people) Was glad to hear it hit Dublin but then I saw RTE interview the hippys with the dreads and all that and I gave up on it!

cheesemaker

Obviously normal people like yourself are happy enough bending over for the bank

neaideabh

cheesemaker wrote: »

Obviously normal people like yourself are happy enough bending over for the bank

I think you're missing my point... I had hopes that this would reach out to the masses! Seeing the hippies being interviewed just confirmed to me that this protest (the Irish ones anyway) are no different from any other! They are not going to achieve anything!

inisboffin

neaideabh wrote: »

cheesemaker wrote: »

Obviously normal people like yourself are happy enough bending over for the bank

I think you're missing my point... I had hopes that this would reach out to the masses! Seeing the hippies being interviewed just confirmed to me that this protest (the Irish ones anyway) are no different from any other! They are not going to achieve anything!

So are you not saying that you are part of 'the masses' that you wnant the protest to reach? If so, why are you waiting for *other people* to achieve your hopes? Why don't *you* join in and have your say?

biko

Jonjo banned for trolling, Bonzacke and SeamusFX for dupe accounting.

biko

There's speeches etc lined up for Saturday if someone is interested.
Start at 1pm.

sword of light

Is anyone else reading this finding that all posts are punctuated with adverts for a bank credit card, offering people one of the lowest APR's in Ireland?

antoobrien

galwayfellaBETA wrote: »

There are no jobs to be had in this economy

That is blatantly untrue. The company I work for has an internal recruitment newsletter (we have a rewards scheme for getting people to join the company) lists well over 100 current vacancies for jobs.

Now if the argument is that there are no unskilled jobs that's something a guidance councilor should have been able to warn about in the 90s when the "traditional manufacturing" jobs were leaving the country in their thousands.

What did we get in their place - a building boom. Granted some of it was needed. There is a lot still needed. There are schools, hospitals, bus & train stations and roads in a dire state across the country. Building/repairing these can bring out out of recession quicker than paying for social welfare and the croke park agreement, while providing valuable services that will make jobs sustainable.

But the real problem we have is that we need to be producing things that when there is a surplus can be exported. We can't exactly sell off a few of the extra apartments & houses to London for the Athlete's village for the Olympics or to Poland & Ukraine for Euro 2012 next year can we?

By the way the main reason the IMF is in is not because of the banks - that takes up less than half of the €70 billion we're borrowing (the NPRF is providing the other €15 billion). It's because we're spending far too much to run the country day to day. The last time we had the revenue produced last year was in 2003. Since then day to day spending (this does not include repayments of national debt, NAMA etc) has gone up by 60%. Last year the current deficit was €12.5 billion. Total revenue was €34 billion. The income tax receipts were €14 - 60% of which was paid by 8% of the income tax net (or about 4% of the workforce because about half the workers in the state don't pay tax).

To be quite blunt about it we're in this mess because we were too generous while we had money and not tight enough now that we don't.

Irishgoatman

biko wrote: »

Jonjo banned for trolling, Bonzacke and SeamusFX for dupe accounting.

I thought I was reasonably "with it" until now.
Can you explain these terms please.

biko

Please feel free to PM me with any questions you may have. I don't want to derail thread with outside topics.

Yatesonskates

Hello Irishgoatman,

Hello Irishgoatman,

I'm sorry if I offended you. My post was intended to be a joke and sarcasm. I am actually 100% behind the protesters and I still can’t understand why anybody other than a very small handful of some greedy bankers would object. If you read the entire post you probably would have realised that it was sarcasm. My point was, other than a few greedy bankers and developers none of the rest of us are part of the problem and I was sarcastically trying to make that point. I was also pointing out that because of the situation the country is in and many in negative equity, it is apparent that the retirement age will be pushed up more and more and at the rate we are going and if we don’t fix things I’ll have to work into my 70’s and my kids may have to work into their 80’s. I was also making a joke about the hippies, since many other posters were condemning and generalising the protesters as hippies. I was also objecting to the posts that said that the protesters don’t have it as bad as the homeless, my point was, no matter how bad it is, there’s always someone worse, but that doesn’t make it right and you should still speak out. Finally in Star Wars Luke Skywalker was fighting Darth Vader and in the end learned he was actually his father, since as some misguided poster indicated that anyone who had a mortgage was part of the problem I was trying to make a sarcastic parody that since you were part of the problem, your daughter was protesting against you, hence she was like Darth Vader.



Finally, after all of the stupid things and aggressive behaviour on the forum and even the crazy stuff I wrote, I was banned because of a typo where I accidentally got dyslexic with another posters name. It just shows you that boards is a microcosm of real life and as the bankers and developers walked away with millions and billions, it’s the little guy who gets punished for the small stuff.

Keep up the fight and tell your daughter to ignore the apathetic and remember:



And the great owners, who must lose their land in an upheaval, the great owners with access to history, with eyes to read history and to know the great fact: when property accumulates in too few hands it is taken away. And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed. The great owners ignored the three cries of history. The land fell into fewer hands, the number of dispossessed increased, and every effort of the great owners was directed at repression.

Then I'll be all around in the dark - I'll be ever'where—wherever you look. Wherever they's a fight so hungry people can eat, I'll be there. Wherever they's a cop beatin' up a guy, I'll be there... I'll be in the way guys yell when they're mad an'—I'll be in the way kids laugh when they're hungry and they know supper's ready. An' when our folk eat the stuff they raise an' live in the houses they build—why, I'll be there. --- Tom Joad

elefant

Yatesonskates wrote: »

Finally in Star Wars Luke Skywalker was fighting Darth Vader and in the end learned he was actually his father,

:eek: spoiler alert!!







:pac:

Irishgoatman

Yatesonskates wrote: »

Hello Irishgoatman,

Hello Irishgoatman,

I'm sorry if I offended you. My post was intended to be a joke and sarcasm. I am actually 100% behind the protesters and I still can’t understand why anybody other than a very small handful of some greedy bankers would object. If you read the entire post you probably would have realised that it was sarcasm. My point was, other than a few greedy bankers and developers none of the rest of us are part of the problem and I was sarcastically trying to make that point. I was also pointing out that because of the situation the country is in and many in negative equity, it is apparent that the retirement age will be pushed up more and more and at the rate we are going and if we don’t fix things I’ll have to work into my 70’s and my kids may have to work into their 80’s. I was also making a joke about the hippies, since many other posters were condemning and generalising the protesters as hippies. I was also objecting to the posts that said that the protesters don’t have it as bad as the homeless, my point was, no matter how bad it is, there’s always someone worse, but that doesn’t make it right and you should still speak out. Finally in Star Wars Luke Skywalker was fighting Darth Vader and in the end learned he was actually his father, since as some misguided poster indicated that anyone who had a mortgage was part of the problem I was trying to make a sarcastic parody that since you were part of the problem, your daughter was protesting against you, hence she was like Darth Vader.



Finally, after all of the stupid things and aggressive behaviour on the forum and even the crazy stuff I wrote, I was banned because of a typo where I accidentally got dyslexic with another posters name. It just shows you that boards is a microcosm of real life and as the bankers and developers walked away with millions and billions, it’s the little guy who gets punished for the small stuff.

Keep up the fight and tell your daughter to ignore the apathetic and remember:



And the great owners, who must lose their land in an upheaval, the great owners with access to history, with eyes to read history and to know the great fact: when property accumulates in too few hands it is taken away. And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed. The great owners ignored the three cries of history. The land fell into fewer hands, the number of dispossessed increased, and every effort of the great owners was directed at repression.

Then I'll be all around in the dark - I'll be ever'where—wherever you look. Wherever they's a fight so hungry people can eat, I'll be there. Wherever they's a cop beatin' up a guy, I'll be there... I'll be in the way guys yell when they're mad an'—I'll be in the way kids laugh when they're hungry and they know supper's ready. An' when our folk eat the stuff they raise an' live in the houses they build—why, I'll be there. --- Tom Joad

Apology has been fully accepted by pm.

And by the way, I was never a hippy in the 60's (busy raising a family) but I do have a beard and I now have a pony tail that reaches half way down my back. No hair cut for 15 years. Saved a fortune on barbers costs:p.

cheesemaker

neaideabh wrote: »

I think you're missing my point... I had hopes that this would reach out to the masses! Seeing the hippies being interviewed just confirmed to me that this protest (the Irish ones anyway) are no different from any other! They are not going to achieve anything!

Yeah, the masses are prone to making assumptions I suppose.
Have you been down to Eyre Sq or do you rely on RTE news for your facts?

galwayfellaBETA

antoobrien wrote: »

That is blatantly untrue. The company I work for has an internal recruitment newsletter (we have a rewards scheme for getting people to join the company) lists well over 100 current vacancies for jobs.

Hey, can you provide a link?

antoobrien wrote: »

Now if the argument is that there are no unskilled jobs that's something a guidance councilor should have been able to warn about in the 90s when the "traditional manufacturing" jobs were leaving the country in their thousands.

That would require 'joined up thinking' .... ;-)

antoobrien wrote: »

What did we get in their place - a building boom. Granted some of it was needed. There is a lot still needed. There are schools, hospitals, bus & train stations and roads in a dire state across the country. Building/repairing these can bring out out of recession quicker than paying for social welfare and the croke park agreement, while providing valuable services that will make jobs sustainable.

I'd love to see this happen but fear that far to many vested interests would have to be upset in order to do it.

antoobrien wrote: »

By the way the main reason the IMF is in is not because of the banks - that takes up less than half of the €70 billion we're borrowing (the NPRF is providing the other €15 billion). It's because we're spending far too much to run the country day to day. The last time we had the revenue produced last year was in 2003. Since then day to day spending (this does not include repayments of national debt, NAMA etc) has gone up by 60%. Last year the current deficit was €12.5 billion. Total revenue was €34 billion. The income tax receipts were €14 - 60% of which was paid by 8% of the income tax net (or about 4% of the workforce because about half the workers in the state don't pay tax).

To be quite blunt about it we're in this mess because we were too generous while we had money and not tight enough now that we don't.

Agreed, we are spending far to much compared to what the country brings in, the top end public sector wage bill needs to be cut. Also far to many qangos have been set up, far to much is paid in consultant fees etc. IMHO the boys at the top with the big goldenhandshakes etc need the fear of the guillotine put into them.

However, the bank debt that we have assumed is making a 'minor' budget deficit (18B this year) a LOT worse. Depending on who you read, my kids (I take it very personally) will be paying for the €50-€70 billion that Fianna Fail sought to donate to German & French bankers Gamblers. This sickens me to the core & I for one will NEVER forgive them for it! (no, I never voted for them, I could see through their vote buying shenanigans).

To get back on topic, the OWS & OcuppyGalway groups point out these inequities ..... Populations of peoples being used to bailout mega business. AIB, BofI, Anglo are just businesses... if they fcuk up they need to be let go to the wall.... lets have real capitalism!

antoobrien

galwayfellaBETA wrote: »

Hey, can you provide a link?

I'm pretty sure you've heard of us, apparently we had a big article in the business section of yesterday's independent (didn't see it myself).

galwayfellaBETA wrote: »

To get back on topic, the OWS & OcuppyGalway groups point out these inequities ..... Populations of peoples being used to bailout mega business. AIB, BofI, Anglo are just businesses... if they fcuk up they need to be let go to the wall.... lets have real capitalism!

Do you realise that Ireland, Greece & Portugal are being loaned money so that they can pay back their existing debts - not so they thy can skip out on them?

The nightmare scenario is an unstructured default in Greece (which means Greece unilaterally taking action - not necessarily a writedown of debts). That'll take the Irish & French banks with it (because everyone will start calling in their loans/bonds/deposits), which will in turn take the rest of the European banking sector with it.

All that means that you, me and everyone else won't have a job because our employers won't be able to access their cash in order to pay us. Really wanna go for that?

The Greek situation is also very different from ours, in that they've never had a particularly sound economy and almost nobody pays income tax. We could solve the European crisis fairly lively by seconding some of the staff of the revenue commissioners to Greece for a few months and enforcing income tax payments - their debt would become sustainable very quickly.

galwayfellaBETA

Head The Wall wrote: »

Here, have a read of one of their demands

Our demand is that the private bank debt that has been socialised and burdened upon the population of the country who had nothing to do with it be lifted. We will not pay and let our children and their children pay for this crisis that private banks and bondholders have caused. It is their problem, not ours.

See the bit in bold, that applies to you and all people that took out mortgages during the boom, if there wan't demand for shoddily built overpriced houses builders wouldn't have built them.

If you don't have a mortgage or didn't buy a house in the last ten years well then you may not be part of the problem.

IMHO this is an over simplistic view.
Firstly 'home buyers' have been burdened through higher house prices & higher taxation along with lower services and an economy where businesses have taken a large hit.

Secondly, 'home buying' has nothing to do with it.... the housing bubble effected 'home purchasers' & renters alike, through higher rents or mortgages.

The blame lies with those that engineered the bubble.

• DUMBFCUKs in government who could not do enough to encourage 'buy-to-let' house buying.
• A banking industry who encouraged 'buy-to-let' house buying.
• A global financing sector who could not give money away fast enough.
• Charlie "I'll spend it while I have it" McCreevy.. enough said.
• The 'we want more' unions, whose union leaders earn 100s of thousands and hob nob with the vested interests.
• The Irish Media, who were so attached to the nipple of the property game they could not cast a critical eye over it... shills!
• And finally the average Irish person who thinks that high house prices is a good thing.

Perhaps you could point the blame at any of the list above (there are others) instead of those who sought to buy a modest semi-d for their family :-)

antoobrien

galwayfellaBETA wrote: »

Perhaps you could point the blame at any of the list above (there are others) instead of those who sought to buy a modest semi-d for their family :-)

Let me rephrase - it's not my fault it's everybody else's. Anybody who bought (not me) or rent (me) is part of the problem for supporting the above. We're all to blame, and the sooner we get that through our thick skulls the better.

If you want to protest go ask why the only company that's being persecuted is the Quinn group (whose jobs are mostly outside the pale) - while the D4 set are getting the kid glove treatment.

galwayfellaBETA

antoobrien wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you've heard of us, apparently we had a big article in the business section of yesterday's independent (didn't see it myself).



Do you realise that Ireland, Greece & Portugal are being loaned money so that they can pay back their existing debts - not so they thy can skip out on them?

The nightmare scenario is an unstructured default in Greece (which means Greece unilaterally taking action - not necessarily a writedown of debts). That'll take the Irish & French banks with it (because everyone will start calling in their loans/bonds/deposits), which will in turn take the rest of the European banking sector with it.

All that means that you, me and everyone else won't have a job because our employers won't be able to access their cash in order to pay us. Really wanna go for that?

The Greek situation is also very different from ours, in that they've never had a particularly sound economy and almost nobody pays income tax. We could solve the European crisis fairly lively by seconding some of the staff of the revenue commissioners to Greece for a few months and enforcing income tax payments - their debt would become sustainable very quickly.

I have no problem paying for the national debt... no issue at all.

However, I have a MASSIVE problem with generations of Irish people paying tax so that private businesses (German & French Banks/bondholders) do not have to take a loss on bad business decisions (lending to Anglo).

You may have had the fear of god put in you about the whole 'burning of bondholders' (which is a terrible term, if we lived in a real capitalist society they would just be failed businesses) but I do not think it would be that traumatic.

The floppy haired one has been right on a lot of things over the past 10 years and I would go with his suggestion before any of the past (FF) or the current (FG/LAB) amateurs. Have a watch of this http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1117989